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My local Jewel - interesting sign


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Posted
If the post the sign, it's posted. They can't qualify their posting. This has been covered exhaustively and there's even a note on the ISP website advising businesses against the practice.
Posted

The black border is an issue.....but I couldn't recommend anyone carrying there. No way you won't get taken downtown for lack of a black border. You might MIGHT win the legal battle after many thousands of $$$$s. It's not worth it.

There's no white background either.

 

Not an official sign.

Posted

I went grocery shopping this evening and noticed my local Jewel had put up what looked like a GFZ sign - but on walking all the way up to it, I noticed it read "This applies only to on duty Jewel-Osco Associates and Vendors" (emphasis theirs). So I guess someone in management made a conscious decision not to prohibit customers from carrying, which is good. I'll continue shopping there.

 

(NOTE: I have a picture of the sign but my upload keeps getting rejected.)

Posted

It does prohibit customers. I would not enter that location armed. Rather I would work to get them to remove it.

 

See FCCA law and JCAR rules and search here as it has been discussed previously.

 

Welcome aboard!

Posted
Basically the JCAR rules say if they post the official signage, even if it is larger than 4x6 and even if it has additional wording on it, that it is a prohibited location.
Posted

Discussed in a couple of posts in the POSTED thread. As TyGuy said, it DOES prohibit customers. Same thing Walmart tried to do.

 

ISP CCL FAQ:

 

https://ccl4illinois...lic/ISPFaq.aspx

 

Can a business allow customers to carry concealed, yet prohibit employees from doing it?

 

This is an employment law question. The Illinois State Police cannot give legal advice to employers; however, the law is not written to preempt an employer’s right to have more restrictive employment policies. If a business owner or employer wants to prohibit only employees, they should not post the required sign as doing so makes the location a prohibited place. Rather, this should be addressed through appropriate employment policies.

Posted
Hmm... I read some posts saying otherwise, since if you alter the sign, then it's no longer the same sign (much as AMC has a standardized sign they use all over the country, including in Illinois, which is not the same as the official ISP sign). I will see if I can get a hold of a manager next time I'm there.
Posted

As I said, if they have the official sign AT LEAST 4"x6" then it's official.

 

If it is larger than 4"x6" it's still official.

If it has more text than required it is still official.

 

You can look for the JCAR rules if you want. I'm doing my taxes and can't post em here now.

Posted

Hmm... I read some posts saying otherwise, since if you alter the sign, then it's no longer the same sign (much as AMC has a standardized sign they use all over the country, including in Illinois, which is not the same as the official ISP sign). I will see if I can get a hold of a manager next time I'm there.

 

Also from the ISP FAQ

 

Can a business owner post a sign larger than 4 inches by 6 inches?

 

Yes. The Illinois State Police has adopted administrative rules permitting the property owner to incorporate the 4 X 6 inch template into a larger sign; however, the required template must be reproduced as a 4 X 6 inch image somewhere on the larger sign. The administrative rules also permit inclusion of additional language on the larger signs.

Posted
Did the sign at the Jewel have the required "Pursuant to 430ILCS 66/65" wording on it?With all due respect to the Walmart thread,to me it seems without the state required wording,it's not an official sign and it would seem to only have the force behind it that Jewel intends.
Posted

Did the sign at the Jewel have the required "Pursuant to 430ILCS 66/65" wording on it?With all due respect to the Walmart thread,to me it seems without the state required wording,it's not an official sign and it would seem to only have the force behind it that Jewel intends.

Yes it did. It was just like the standard sign, except with added text above the graphic (though it was on a clear background rather than a white one). I wish I could upload the picture here; I cropped the picture down below 2 MB, but it still won't upload.
Posted

Stole your pic - hope you don't mind. ;)

 

1383448_10200811226642736_1030689190_n.jpg

 

Technically not an approved GFZ sign.

 

From the Admin Rules:

 

Section 1231.Appendix A Prohibited Area Posting

 

Pursuant to Section 65(d) of the Act, signs must be of a uniform design. The Department has adopted the following sign format. The background is white, with no text, other than the reference to 403 ILCS 66/65, and no other marking within the one-inch area surrounding the graphic design. The graphic design is a handgun in black ink surrounded by a red circle with a diagonal slash across the handgun. The circle shall be 4 inches in diameter. The black rectangle surrounding the image must measure 4 inches tall by 6 inches wide.

 

 

The image is available on the DSP website for download.

 

No black border = not official sign, but it would still be better if they simply issued a policy directive, but maybe there's a concern over it being a Contract issue with the UFCW.

Posted
The black border is an issue.....but I couldn't recommend anyone carrying there. No way you won't get taken downtown for lack of a black border. You might MIGHT win the legal battle after many thousands of $$$$s. It's not worth it.
Posted
Well, at the end of the day, why would Jewel call the cops in the first place when they clearly are allowing customers to carry by their own policy? It's the decision of the business owner, not their sign.
Posted
What if another customer noticed and called? Doesn't just have to be Jewel. Seriously, read the beginning few pages of the Walmart Thread (see my signature). We've covered this all before.
Posted
That thread is massive. Looking through some of the first pages, I see posts like this: http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=44319&st=60#entry629672 which I agree with. It looks to me like there was not a definitive conclusion reached. Even if a customer called, as long as the manager sticks to the company policy, it's no different than if someone were to accidentally expose while walking down the sidewalk.
Posted

The manager isn't the one that would press charges. You would be breaking a law and the police wouldn't need the manager's ok to arrest you.

 

You can carry if you want, but realize that if you are found out there's a very good chance you'll be headed downtown with a long legal battle ahead of you.

 

Best to get the signs removed.

 

 

Tapa-what? Tapatalk.

Posted

The manager isn't the one that would press charges. You would be breaking a law and the police wouldn't need the manager's ok to arrest you.

 

You can carry if you want, but realize that if you are found out there's a very good chance you'll be headed downtown with a long legal battle ahead of you.

 

Best to get the signs removed.

 

 

Tapa-what? Tapatalk.

I'll agree to disagree. Like I said, though, I've sent Jewel an email, so we'll see what they say.
Posted
My local Walmart and Jewel both have the same sign. That sign makes me think that they are just making a good business decision. If I see that sign, I walk right in. I am not an employee or a vendor. Nor am I "on duty". So I'm not unhappy. Also on the other side, the're not offending some looney from MDA because a stockboy is printing while restocking the top shelf. Actually, I'ts a pretty smart move from a busness standpoint.
Posted

Did someone over at Walmart get fired and get hired by Jewel?

 

LOL!

 

To the OP, if this appears on any part of the sign:

 

signage.jpg

 

it is illegal for a CCL holder to carry there, period.

Oh great, now you just made my laptop a GFZ!

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