722 replies to this topic

[dadude999]

I went grocery shopping this evening and noticed my local Jewel had put up what looked like a GFZ sign - but on walking all the way up to it, I noticed it read "This applies only to on duty Jewel-Osco Associates and Vendors" (emphasis theirs). So I guess someone in management made a conscious decision not to prohibit customers from carrying, which is good. I'll continue shopping there.

(NOTE: I have a picture of the sign but my upload keeps getting rejected.)

[TyGuy]

It does prohibit customers. I would not enter that location armed. Rather I would work to get them to remove it.

See FCCA law and JCAR rules and search here as it has been discussed previously.

Welcome aboard!

[Gamma]

If the post the sign, it's posted. They can't qualify their posting. This has been covered exhaustively and there's even a note on the ISP website advising businesses against the practice.

[narcoden]

Did someone over at Walmart get fired and get hired by Jewel?

[TyGuy]

Basically the JCAR rules say if they post the official signage, even if it is larger than 4x6 and even if it has additional wording on it, that it is a prohibited location.

[TyGuy]

Did someone over at Walmart get fired and get hired by Jewel?

lulz

[InterestedBystander]

Discussed in a couple of posts in the POSTED thread. As TyGuy said, it DOES prohibit customers. Same thing Walmart tried to do.

ISP CCL FAQ:

https://ccl4illinois...lic/ISPFaq.aspx

Can a business allow customers to carry concealed, yet prohibit employees from doing it?

This is an employment law question. The Illinois State Police cannot give legal advice to employers; however, the law is not written to preempt an employer’s right to have more restrictive employment policies. If a business owner or employer wants to prohibit only employees, they should not post the required sign as doing so makes the location a prohibited place. Rather, this should be addressed through appropriate employment policies.

Edited by InterestedBystander, 22 March 2014 - 08:34 PM.

[narcoden]

I think the Jewel thread can go the distance... 10k posts or bust.

[Brad O.]

Did someone over at Walmart get fired and get hired by Jewel?

My thoughts, exactly.

.

[dadude999]

Hmm... I read some posts saying otherwise, since if you alter the sign, then it's no longer the same sign (much as AMC has a standardized sign they use all over the country, including in Illinois, which is not the same as the official ISP sign). I will see if I can get a hold of a manager next time I'm there.

[TyGuy]

As I said, if they have the official sign AT LEAST 4"x6" then it's official.

If it is larger than 4"x6" it's still official.
If it has more text than required it is still official.

You can look for the JCAR rules if you want. I'm doing my taxes and can't post em here now.

[InterestedBystander]

Hmm... I read some posts saying otherwise, since if you alter the sign, then it's no longer the same sign (much as AMC has a standardized sign they use all over the country, including in Illinois, which is not the same as the official ISP sign). I will see if I can get a hold of a manager next time I'm there.

Also from the ISP FAQ

Can a business owner post a sign larger than 4 inches by 6 inches?

Yes. The Illinois State Police has adopted administrative rules permitting the property owner to incorporate the 4 X 6 inch template into a larger sign; however, the required template must be reproduced as a 4 X 6 inch image somewhere on the larger sign. The administrative rules also permit inclusion of additional language on the larger signs.

[dadude999]

Good point. Just in case, though, I sent in a query via their web form to see what they say on this.

[Redlin]

Did the sign at the Jewel have the required "Pursuant to 430ILCS 66/65" wording on it?With all due respect to the Walmart thread,to me it seems without the state required wording,it's not an official sign and it would seem to only have the force behind it that Jewel intends.

[dadude999]

Did the sign at the Jewel have the required "Pursuant to 430ILCS 66/65" wording on it?With all due respect to the Walmart thread,to me it seems without the state required wording,it's not an official sign and it would seem to only have the force behind it that Jewel intends.

Yes it did. It was just like the standard sign, except with added text above the graphic (though it was on a clear background rather than a white one). I wish I could upload the picture here; I cropped the picture down below 2 MB, but it still won't upload.

[dadude999]

I used the picture in a facebook conversation - here is a link to it (it may disappear when facebook clears out their cache though):

https://scontent-b-o...139&oe=533044B2

[Tango7]

Stole your pic - hope you don't mind.



Technically not an approved GFZ sign.

From the Admin Rules:

Section 1231.Appendix A Prohibited Area Posting

Pursuant to Section 65(d) of the Act, signs must be of a uniform design. The Department has adopted the following sign format. The background is white, with no text, other than the reference to 403 ILCS 66/65, and no other marking within the one-inch area surrounding the graphic design. The graphic design is a handgun in black ink surrounded by a red circle with a diagonal slash across the handgun. The circle shall be 4 inches in diameter. The black rectangle surrounding the image must measure 4 inches tall by 6 inches wide.


The image is available on the DSP website for download.

No black border = not official sign, but it would still be better if they simply issued a policy directive, but maybe there's a concern over it being a Contract issue with the UFCW.

Edited by Tango7, 22 March 2014 - 09:38 PM.

[dadude999]

Ah, thanks, that's what I was attempting to do. Yeah, it's definitely nonstandard (aspect ratio is wrong as well). I'll let you know when they respond to my email.

Edited by dadude999, 22 March 2014 - 10:20 PM.

[TyGuy]

The black border is an issue.....but I couldn't recommend anyone carrying there. No way you won't get taken downtown for lack of a black border. You might MIGHT win the legal battle after many thousands of $$$$s. It's not worth it.

[dadude999]

Well, at the end of the day, why would Jewel call the cops in the first place when they clearly are allowing customers to carry by their own policy? It's the decision of the business owner, not their sign.

[TyGuy]

What if another customer noticed and called? Doesn't just have to be Jewel. Seriously, read the beginning few pages of the Walmart Thread (see my signature). We've covered this all before.

[dadude999]

That thread is massive. Looking through some of the first pages, I see posts like this: http://illinoiscarry...=60#entry629672 which I agree with. It looks to me like there was not a definitive conclusion reached. Even if a customer called, as long as the manager sticks to the company policy, it's no different than if someone were to accidentally expose while walking down the sidewalk.

[TyGuy]

The manager isn't the one that would press charges. You would be breaking a law and the police wouldn't need the manager's ok to arrest you.

You can carry if you want, but realize that if you are found out there's a very good chance you'll be headed downtown with a long legal battle ahead of you.

Best to get the signs removed.


Tapa-what? Tapatalk.

[chislinger]

The black border is an issue.....but I couldn't recommend anyone carrying there. No way you won't get taken downtown for lack of a black border. You might MIGHT win the legal battle after many thousands of $$$$s. It's not worth it.

There's no white background either.

Not an official sign.

[dadude999]

The manager isn't the one that would press charges. You would be breaking a law and the police wouldn't need the manager's ok to arrest you.

You can carry if you want, but realize that if you are found out there's a very good chance you'll be headed downtown with a long legal battle ahead of you.

Best to get the signs removed.


Tapa-what? Tapatalk.

I'll agree to disagree. Like I said, though, I've sent Jewel an email, so we'll see what they say.

[1911 .45]

My local Walmart and Jewel both have the same sign. That sign makes me think that they are just making a good business decision. If I see that sign, I walk right in. I am not an employee or a vendor. Nor am I "on duty". So I'm not unhappy. Also on the other side, the're not offending some looney from MDA because a stockboy is printing while restocking the top shelf. Actually, I'ts a pretty smart move from a busness standpoint.

[2AFOREVER]

I used the picture in a facebook conversation - here is a link to it (it may disappear when facebook clears out their cache though):

https://scontent-b-o...139&oe=533044B2

What Jewel location is this? I am always looking for a posted sign at the one in Orland Park, one of the many grocery stores that my wife shops at and also our pharmacy Osco. As of yesterday there were still no "official" signs posted OR the version of the sign that you have linked a photo of.

[Mr. Fife]

FJewel

[dadude999]

2AFOREVER, This is the Jewel on Clark and Bryn Mawr in Chicago. 1911, I agree.

Also, I heard back on my inquiry. Here's their response (so far):

"Thank you for contacting us regarding your comments on the firearms policy at your local Jewel-Osco. We appreciate the opportunity to assist you.

We have forwarded your comments to the appropriate parties for further review and consideration. Due to the sensitive nature of this topic, we request that you provide us with a phone number if you would like to be contacted back regarding this matter. We thank you for taking the time to provide us with your feedback today.

Customer satisfaction is our number one goal. If you have any further questions, comments, or concerns, please contact us by calling Customer Care at 1-877-932-7948.

Sincerely,



Jacob M.
Jewel-Osco Customer Care"

I sent them my phone number, we'll see if they call.

[Lou]

My Jewel isn't posted.