Obama Reverses Decision 850,000 M1's to be destroyed

[moparcardave]

President

 

Obama Administration Reverses Course, Forbids Sale of 850,000 Antique Rifles

By Maxim Lott

 

Published September 01, 2010

 

| FoxNews.com

 

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A photo of M1 Garands (National Park Service)

 

The South Korean government, in an effort to raise money for its military, wants to sell nearly a million antique M1 rifles that were used by U.S. soldiers in the Korean War to gun collectors in America.

 

The Obama administration approved the sale of the American-made rifles last year. But it reversed course and banned the sale in March – a decision that went largely unnoticed at the time but that is now sparking opposition from gun rights advocates.

 

A State Department spokesman said the administration's decision was based on concerns that the guns could fall into the wrong hands.

 

"The transfer of such a large number of weapons -- 87,310 M1 Garands and 770,160 M1 Carbines -- could potentially be exploited by individuals seeking firearms for illicit purposes," the spokesman told FoxNews.com.

 

"We are working closely with our Korean allies and the U.S. Army in exploring alternative options to dispose of these firearms."

 

YOU MIGHT ALSO BE INTERESTED INTen Worst Places to Live7 Steps to Becoming a One-Income FamilyGood Fat: How Being Overweight Can Work to Your AdvantageBurger King Said to be Considering SaleEmployees File Suit Against Coke for Cancelling Their Health CareGun control advocates praised the Obama administration for taking security seriously.

 

"Guns that can take high-capacity magazines are a threat to public safety," said Dennis Henigan of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "Even though they are old, these guns could deliver a great amount of firepower. So I think the Obama administration's concerns are well-taken."

 

But gun rights advocates point out that possessing M1 rifles is legal in the United States -- M1s are semi-automatics, not machine guns, meaning the trigger has to be pulled every time a shot is fired -- and anyone who would buy a gun from South Korea would have to go through the standard background check.

 

"Any guns that retail in the United States, of course, including these, can only be sold to someone who passes the National Instant Check System," said David Kopel, research director at the conservative Independence Institute. "There is no greater risk from these particular guns than there is from any other guns sold in the United States."

 

M1 carbines can hold high-capacity ammunition clips that allow dozens of rounds to be fired before re-loading, but Chris Cox, chief lobbyist for the National Rifle Association, noted that is true about any gun in which an ammunition magazine can be inserted -- including most semi-automatics.

 

"Anything that accepts an external magazine could accept a larger capacity magazine," Cox said.

 

"But the average number of rounds fired in the commission of a crime is somewhere between 1 and 2 … this issue just shows how little the administration understands about guns."

 

He called the administration's decision "a de facto gun ban, courtesy of Hillary Clinton's State Department."

 

Asked why the M1s pose a threat, the State Department spokesman referred questions to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. ATF representatives said they would look into the question Monday afternoon, but on Wednesday they referred questions to the Justice Department. DOJ spokesman Dean Boyd referred questions back to the State Department.

 

According to the ATF Guidebook on Firearms Importation, it would normally be legal to import the M1s because they are more than 50 years old, meaning they qualify as "curios or relics." But because the guns were given to South Korea by the U.S. government, they fall under a special category that requires permission from the State Department before any sale.

 

Kopel said that he hopes the State Department spokesman's statement that it is working to "dispose" of the guns does not mean they want to melt them down.

 

"It seems to have this implication of destruction, which would be tremendously wasteful," he said. "These are guns that should be in the hands of American citizens for marksmanship and safety training."

 

Asked whether melting the guns down would be a good option, Henigan said: "Why let them into the country in the first place? If there is a legally sufficient way to keep them out, we think it's perfectly reasonable to do so."

 

Past administrations have also grappled with the issue of large-scale gun imports.

 

The Clinton administration blocked sales of M1s and other antiquated military weapons from the Philippines, Turkey and Pakistan. It also ended the practice of reselling used guns owned by federal agencies, ordering that they be melted down instead.

 

In contrast, 200,000 M1 rifles from South Korea were allowed to be sold in the U.S. under the Reagan administration in 1987.

 

A decision like that would be better for everyone, Cox said.

 

"M1s are used for target practice. For history buffs, they're highly collectible. We're going to continue to make sure that this backdoor effort that infringes not only on lawful commerce but on the Second Amendment is rectified."

 

Henigan disagrees.

 

"They clearly were used as military guns, and the fact that they likely can take high-capacity magazines makes them a special safety concern," he said.

 

The White House referred questions on the issue to the Pentagon, which referred questions to the U.S. Embassy in South Korea, which deferred back to the State Department.

[moparcardave]

Makes me so mad I am commenting on my own posting. High Capacity Mags? Since when does a 8 shot M1 Garand become high capicity. Besides the M1 Carbines can take up to 30 round but in many states that's illegal already. Look at the money the CMP will be missing on on 850,000 x $500. Geez talk about back door attack on our 2A rights.

 

Lastly when was the last time you saw a gangbanger carrying a M1 Garand???

[Buzzard]

Makes me so mad I am commenting on my own posting. High Capacity Mags? Since when does a 8 shot M1 Garand become high capicity. Besides the M1 Carbines can take up to 30 round but in many states that's illegal already. Look at the money the CMP will be missing on on 850,000 x $500. Geez talk about back door attack on our 2A rights.

 

Lastly when was the last time you saw a gangbanger carrying a M1 Garand???

 

Just another reason to thank all those McCain haters that sat out the last election.

[GWBH]

Obama and his administration are attempting to re-write history in any way they can get away with.

His actions fall right into place with this decision. I wonder how long the CMP can fend him off?

 

It's just a shame - he has no appreciation for the sentimental value of the rifles, nor does he appreciate what the men that carried them went through to allow his sorry butt to become President of the United States.

 

Nothing short of disgracefull.

[Mac]

Gobama is a joke,hipocrite and un-American. He is going to rule against any freedoms that he can, rule against the U.S. Constitution and push his Socialist agenda as far as he can. Gobama needs to think about the consequences of his actions come election time. That is unless he plans to declare a dictatorship. Remember, he said when he was elected that he planned to ber President for a very long time.

[Chiburbian]

Couple comments...

 

First, they say several times "dispose of" and took pains to mention this did not mean melt them down. Dispose of does not equal destroy. Do you destroy your disposable income?

 

That said, we need to watch this like a hawk and put pressure on our politicians to make sure that the M1s are disposed of by letting them enter the collector market, where they belong.

[Drylok]

Too bad we can't get through 1 damn day without a story coming out from the POTUS that makes us do a face palm 2012 can't get here quick enough. Ok Obama you're 2-1 on 2A issues you're slipp'n

 

Is there any way we can get this reversed? Anything we can do at all?

[SirMatthew]

We gave those rifles away, but they weren't free. Americans paid for them through tax dollars, they belong to us. Now Korea wants to sell them back to us, property that we freely gave them. What's wrong with this picture?

 

There are already nearly 300 million firearms in 50% of homes in this country so adding this lot of old long rifles would only increase the total by 0.002%. Hardly something to be concerned about.

 

Korea isn't going to destroy those weapons which hold so much value. Even at $10 each they could get $8.5 million out of them, hardly chump change. They will "dispose" of them, yes, but our weapons will end up in the hands of the Taliban or something. So much for keeping them out of the hands of bad guys, huh?

[moparcardave]

Exactly, how many times do you turn the tv on or search the internet and here in England, France or Belguim their are people driving around restoring our tanks, planes, guns, museams. I am all for history but much of this was paid for by US people and lives. What should be done is first seach out WWII veterans and see if they are intrested in a M1 Garand or carbine. They perhaps heirs or reenactors or collectors. These are HISTORY mr "o" not weapons that the criminals use.

 

Just sad to see people in charge that know so little of what they are talking about, irritates the heck out of me.

[Buzzard]

Don't worry guys - we can just manufacture a bunch of BRAND NEW, antique and historic, World War II era, M1 Garands....

 

Ooops. Silly me. I guess that won't work...will it.

 

 

 

Perhaps we should just adopt the philosophy of all those "Fudds" out there that don't vote -

 

"As long as it ain't mah huntin' gun.... I don't much give a damn."

 

 

 

Yes, I'm pickin' on our fellow gun owners. And it's about time we do, in my opinion.

 

If you're not part of the solution - you're part of the problem!

 

The TRUTH hurts - don't it?

[gravyboy77]

This makes my blood boil!!

 

This is one of the lead stories on Fox News so the best thing we can do is get this issue front and center like we did with the ammo casing destruction that was reversed once word started traveling around. This is the last thing the Democrats want or need during the mid-terms that are turning out to be a near destruction for them to retain seats.

[Lou]

Clinton had thousands of M14s destroyed in the 90s. It must be a liberal thing.

The Army is now scrounging up the left overs and rebuilding them to be used as sniper rifles in the sandbox.

[GarandFan]

Moparcar ... where did you get "to be destroyed?" Did you just make that up yourself?

 

 

Lott's article states that the "sale was forbidden." But he too is wrong.

 

OK ... what isn't clear or stated is that those rifles were part of a lend-lease program. They can't be sold to the US, because we still own them!!

 

Of course, they could be imported and transferred to the public via the CMP, which I expect will ultimately happen.

 

But if 850,000 historical artifacts, that are US property, are to be destroyed (no source I've read says they are) ... there will, and should be, heck to pay by somebody.

[BobbyT]

As Chitcago words toward another year of nation-leading 500+ murders, I wonder how many were committed with 9 pound, 3 foot rifles.

 

I mean, can you even fire a Garand sideways or from inside a hooptie?

[Buzzard]

As Chitcago words toward another year of nation-leading 500+ murders, I wonder how many were committed with 9 pound, 3 foot rifles.

 

I mean, can you even fire a Garand sideways or from inside a hooptie?

 

I must be getting old. What's a "hooptie"??

[GarandFan]

I must be getting old. What's a "hooptie"??

 

Me too ...

 

But dear Lord, let's hope the bangers don't start using Garands ...

[SirMatthew]

As Chitcago words toward another year of nation-leading 500+ murders, I wonder how many were committed with 9 pound, 3 foot rifles.

 

I mean, can you even fire a Garand sideways or from inside a hooptie?

 

I must be getting old. What's a "hooptie"??

 

This should help (entertaining to read): http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hooptie

[Beezil]

Makes me so mad I am commenting on my own posting. High Capacity Mags? Since when does a 8 shot M1 Garand become high capicity. Besides the M1 Carbines can take up to 30 round but in many states that's illegal already. Look at the money the CMP will be missing on on 850,000 x $500. Geez talk about back door attack on our 2A rights.

 

Lastly when was the last time you saw a gangbanger carrying a M1 Garand???

 

Just another reason to thank all those McCain haters that sat out the last election.

 

 

YEP!

[Bud]

CMP has nothing to do with these weapons. SKorea will sell then to an importer who then would sell them in the US.

 

This has been a topic on CMP forum for a long time. CMP has no access to them and would not even if the State Department backs down.

 

Don't expect that. Unless someone can convince Hillary that they should be asllowed backl in the country she won't budge and according to CMP, the State Department has total control.

 

Just anopther thing to remember in the 2010 and 2012 elections.

[moparcardave]

Well either way should these not come into the US it's just plain wrong. How can a guy like "o" pull up his father in laws name as being a WWII veteran and then to this to a piece of history from that period. Just plain wrong.

[Howard Roark]

"I see some sportsmen back there. I'm not going to take your hunting rifle away. I'm not going to take your shotgun away." (Obama candidate).

 

 

Mr. President, can we please keep our battle rifles?

[GarandFan]

Letter from Senator Tester to Secretary Clinton.

 

http://tester.senate.gov/Legislation/upload/Tester_M1_Letter.pdf

[Federal Farmer]

Letter from Senator Tester to Secretary Clinton.

 

http://tester.senate.gov/Legislation/upload/Tester_M1_Letter.pdf

 

Excellent!

[mauserme]

And another letter from Congressmen Boozman and Broun. signed by almost 60 more congressmen from both sides of the aisle

 

http://boozman.house...er_to_State.pdf

[mauserme]

http://lummis.house.gov/News/DocumentPrint.aspx?DocumentID=209386

lummis.house.gov

 

Cynthia Lummis

Contact: Hayley Douglass (202) 225-2311

 

Lummis Bill Blocks State Department Interference in Collectible Firearm Sale

 

 

Washington, Sep 29 -

 

 

Today, U.S. Representatives Cynthia Lummis (R-WY) and Joe Donnelly (D-IN) introduced H.R. 6240, the Collectable Firearms Protection Act. The bill would prevent the State Department from interfering with the legal importation of surplus collectable firearms from South Korea that were originally made in the U.S.

 

"The State Department does not have the authority to deny legal firearms to law-abiding citizens. These firearms have historical value, are legal, and their importation is already highly regulated by the Justice Department. There is no basis for State Department involvement. This is not about diplomacy or foreign policy -- this is a domestic issue and a Second Amendment issue," Lummis said.

 

"The right of law-abiding American citizens to import these historical firearms should not be complicated with unnecessary over-regulation," said Donnelly. "This common-sense change simply lets the Justice Department do its job and removes the State Department from the process."

 

Link to H.R. 6240

[Houndawg]

These wouldn't be sold through the CMP most likely. They would be imported by Century, defiled with Century's ugly stamp, and sold through Century and various other sellers. They would be unguaged and ungraded, and you wouldn't know if you are buying a sewer pipe or not. I'd probably still buy one.

[mauserme]

These wouldn't be sold through the CMP most likely. They would be imported by Century, defiled with Century's ugly stamp, and sold through Century and various other sellers. They would be unguaged and ungraded, and you wouldn't know if you are buying a sewer pipe or not. I'd probably still buy one.

Yeah, I've heard they're in pretty rough shape and that the price was to have been between $140 and $200. Not sure if that was at the wholesale level or retail.

 

Even if these are only wall hangers, though, our history should be preserved.

[highspeed]

Change the stock to synthetic, and put it back in service. I can`t begin to tell all the stories about how good that rifle performed and it`s accuracy from all the users i`ve talked to.