HB-6123

[Tvandermyde]

First off while it may say "street gang member" here is the definition:

 

"any combination, confederation, alliance, network, conspiracy, understanding, or other similar conjoining, in law or in fact, of 3 or more persons with an established hierarchy that, through its membership or through the agency of any member engages in a course or pattern of criminal activity."

 

So lets say my union gets nailed in a RICO case. We are 3 or more people, we have a hierarchy in our membership. A RICO case on it's face alleges criminal activity. a gang? Does that mean that all the members of my union are now gang members? It could.

 

But the real problem is that Daley will use this to run gun shops out of business. If you remember the civil suits Daley filed against the gun shops, he ran those bogus sting operations. Some of the cops dressed up as bikers, made some vague reference to "biker gangs" or clubs when buying a gun. Now Daley will do the same thing, only this time, he will come back and arrest the shop owners and charge them with a felony and let them fight it out in court.

 

His goal last time was to financially break them, and he'll try it again, only this time not only will they have to spend money to defend themselves, they will face a felony conviction and prison.

 

So how is one to know that a person is a member of a gang? Tattoos, shoe laces, bandanas?

 

And just the day before, the Cook County States Attorney was making up the law as they went along. During the hearing on HB-5849, the re-write of the transportation law, they were asked by rep Sullivan that if he went to bass pro shop and bought a zippered nylon case for his gun would that qualify? They said NO. Nylon cases have never been covered by the law. So to them, in Cook County non of our soft cases are legal, at least to this one ASA. Then they tried to go on and say they want the case to be locked. Never mind that there is no requirement in the law to have the case locked.

 

So here we have a cop and an assistant states attorney making it up as they go along. And we are suppose to trust them that they won't make up how they plan on enforcing this as they go along.

 

 

That is the real problem with this.

[Lou]

First off while it may say "street gang member" here is the definition:

 

"any combination, confederation, alliance, network, conspiracy, understanding, or other similar conjoining, in law or in fact, of 3 or more persons with an established hierarchy that, through its membership or through the agency of any member engages in a course or pattern of criminal activity.

 

This sounds like a perfect description of the Chicago City Council.

[Ashrak]

I would offer that this is an example of nefarious activity that may be further enabled by due process but relegated to the dustbin of unconstitutionality when privileges or immunities is in full force.

[Buzzard]

First off while it may say "street gang member" here is the definition:

 

"any combination, confederation, alliance, network, conspiracy, understanding, or other similar conjoining, in law or in fact, of 3 or more persons with an established hierarchy that, through its membership or through the agency of any member engages in a course or pattern of criminal activity.

 

This sounds like a perfect description of the Chicago City Council.

 

I strongly concur, Lou!

[sctman800]

I see this as a way to harrass FFLs more than anything.

 

A guy wearing a suit, really clean cut walks into a gun store and starts looking at guns. A couple minutes another pulls up on a Harley, long hair, beard and Harley t-shirt; he comes in and looks at and buys a gun. He has a FOID card, clean background check, no problems. During the transaction "Biker" mentions someone at the club said this was a good place to deal with. The FFL thinks nothing of it, mabye the local sportsmans club; or the "Biker" is wearing some subtle, un-noticeable reference to a motorcycle club.

The "suit" and the "Biker" are both undercover cops. The "suit" is the witness; the "Biker" was wearing "gang" colors and talked about the "gang" members during the sale. FFL is busted, I can see it happening, this is a bad bill aimed at harassment of the FFLs and will do nothing to keep guns away from real gang members. Old Biker, Jim.

[abolt243]

You might also point out that gang membership, without a FOID is also mentioned as a disqualilfication of gun possession in 720 ILCS 5/24 - 1.8:

 

But I'm sure you're familiar with this.

 

***************************************************************************************************************************************

(720 ILCS 5/24‑1.8)

Sec. 24‑1.8. Unlawful possession of a firearm by a street gang member.

(a) A person commits unlawful possession of a firearm by a street gang member when he or she knowingly:

(1) possesses, carries, or conceals on or about his or her person a firearm and firearm ammunition while on any street, road, alley, gangway, sidewalk, or any other lands, except when inside his or her own abode or inside his or her fixed place of business, and has not been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card and is a member of a street gang; or (b. Unlawful possession of a firearm by a street gang member is a Class 2 felony for which the person, if sentenced to a term of imprisonment, shall be sentenced to no less than 3 years and no more than 10 years. A period of probation, a term of periodic imprisonment or conditional discharge shall not be imposed for the offense of unlawful possession of a firearm by a street gang member when the firearm was loaded or contained firearm ammunition and the court shall sentence the offender to not less than the minimum term of imprisonment authorized for the Class 2 felony. "Street gang member" or "gang member" has the meaning <DIV align=justify>ascribed to it in Section 10 of the Illinois Streetgang Terrorism Omnibus Prevention Act.

[cherryriver]

Just for fun-

Here's the text of the e-mail I sent to Rep. Elaine Nekritz (57th):

 

Dear Representative Nekritz:

 

We would like to let you know that we oppose the currently proposed legislation HB-6123, the "Gangs and Guns" bill.

One does not have to be an aficionado of the Second Amendment to be offended by this bill- it does violence to the First Amendment in a more important way.

The extraordinary vagueness built in to the definitions, especially that of a "gang", is of course no accident, but it ought to give pause to anyone interested in free speech or association.

While the bill is clearly intended to attack gun dealers, it goes much further. In fact, a person selling you, yourself, a gun (providing you had a current FOI) would be exposed to a felony conviction under HB-6123. Why? Because as a member of the Illinois Democratic Party, you would be a "gang member", as the Party engages in criminal activity as witnessed by the many Machine operatives cooling their heels up in Oxford.

Absurd?

Certainly. But also legally accurate and an excellent example of why this noxious bill should be killed.

There are better ways to fight crime than poorly-thought-out bills like HB-6123.

 

Sincerely,

[Xwing]

Just for fun-

Here's the text of the e-mail I sent to Rep. Elaine Nekritz (57th):

 

Dear Representative Nekritz:

 

We would like to let you know that we oppose the currently proposed legislation HB-6123, the "Gangs and Guns" bill.

One does not have to be an aficionado of the Second Amendment to be offended by this bill- it does violence to the First Amendment in a more important way.

The extraordinary vagueness built in to the definitions, especially that of a "gang", is of course no accident, but it ought to give pause to anyone interested in free speech or association.

While the bill is clearly intended to attack gun dealers, it goes much further. In fact, a person selling you, yourself, a gun (providing you had a current FOI) would be exposed to a felony conviction under HB-6123. Why? Because as a member of the Illinois Democratic Party, you would be a "gang member", as the Party engages in criminal activity as witnessed by the many Machine operatives cooling their heels up in Oxford.

Absurd?

Certainly. But also legally accurate and an excellent example of why this noxious bill should be killed.

There are better ways to fight crime than poorly-thought-out bills like HB-6123.

 

Sincerely,

 

I'm sure she appreciated it. The way "gang" is written in that bill, a lot of innocent people would qualify.

[Tvandermyde]

I have spoken with Rep. Sacia about the bill and he is committed to working on a fix to address our concerns.

 

I'll be trying to work out language this weekend for an amendment. Until an amendment is adopted, we need to call and let them know that we oppose this bill for it's broad implications.

 

Simple Question: How will I know if someone is a gang member? How will a gun dealer know if someone is a gang member? They don't have that informationinthe ISP database for background checks.

[abolt243]

I have spoken with Rep. Sacia about the bill and he is committed to working on a fix to address our concerns.

 

I'll be trying to work out language this weekend for an amendment. Until an amendment is adopted, we need to call and let them know that we oppose this bill for it's broad implications.

 

Simple Question: How will I know if someone is a gang member? How will a gun dealer know if someone is a gang member? They don't have that informationinthe ISP database for background checks.

 

Not sure what happened here with Sacia. He's usually solid with us. Hope you can work things out.

 

How 'bout a little horse trading here?? If Osterman wants to keep guns out of the hands of gangbangers, how about trading some form of that for putting guns IN the hands of law-abiding citizens?? It seems we're more than willing to work with him/his people when they come up with a bill that might have some merit. How about him returning the favor? Is he so naive/hard headed that he can't see some merit to RTC by lawful citizens?? Surely he's traveled to IN or MO or MN or some other state with RTC.

 

I'll drop a note to Eddy. I'm sure he's following NRA recommendations. Anyone else that we can call besides our own legislators??

 

AB

[Tvandermyde]

I'll email out a list next week after I see what things look like.

 

We don't need to bug Sacia, we are trying to work it out and he's listening.

[abolt243]

I'll email out a list next week after I see what things look like.

 

We don't need to bug Sacia, we are trying to work it out and he's listening.

 

Good, let us know who we CAN bug!!!

[Federal Farmer]

This bill offends me. Not because I have any love for 'gangbangers' but because it is an end-around of the justice system. They can't get convictions on these guys to make them prohibited persons so they 'convict' them by association. Frankly, it stinks.

[Bill Matio]

This bill offends me. Not because I have any love for 'gangbangers' but because it is an end-around of the justice system. They can't get convictions on these guys to make them prohibited persons so they 'convict' them by association. Frankly, it stinks.

Any "gun control" bill offends me!

[Tvandermyde]

BILL TO PROHIBIT AFRICAN AMERICANS AND HISPANICS FROM BUYING GUNS ADVANCES IN THE ILLINOIS GENERAL ASSEMBLY

 

CONTACT: Richard Pearson, Illinois State Rifle Association, (815) 635-3198

 

WEB SITE: http://www.isra.org

 

 

 

CHICAGO - - The following was released today by the Illinois State Rifle Association (ISRA):

 

Law-abiding African Americans and Hispanics would take it on the chin under a bill now moving through the Illinois General Assembly. Sponsored by Rep. Harry Osterman (D-14), HB6123 would prohibit any person or entity from selling a firearm to a so-called "street gang member." This prohibition applies even if the individual has passed a Brady Law FBI background check. Making a prohibited sale would result in Class 1 felony charges and possible jail time for the seller. Although the ISRA supports genuine efforts to curb criminal violence, the organization is strongly opposed to HB6123 as the bill's provisions are arbitrary and pose an unreasonable intrusion on the rights of law-abiding Illinois citizens.

 

"HB6123 promotes racial profiling at its worst," commented ISRA Executive Director, Richard Pearson. "Popular culture has branded urban minorities with the 'gangsta' stereotype that is pervasive well beyond the confines of actual criminal enterprises. Today's fashions, music, slang and lifestyle are all heavily influenced by the urban experience. Given that the provisions of HB6123 establish no test for determining 'street gang' membership, and given the harsh penalties for violating the proposed law, it is understandable that retailers would shy away from selling firearms to persons whose speech, dress, mannerisms, or taste in music reflect the urban lifestyle."

 

"Several Chicago nightclubs stirred considerable controversy recently when they denied entry to young men wearing baggy pants and cornrows in their hair," continued Pearson. "The nightclub owners justified their rejection of the individuals by claiming that baggy pants and certain hair styles are indicative of gang membership – despite the fact that the young men had done nothing illegal. While the popular press bristled over the nightclubs' actions, the press has ignored HB6123 although the bill would bless, and even require firearm retailers to discriminate against individuals based on their appearance. This sort of cultural profiling is vile enough when persons are denied entry into a club, but denying one's constitutional rights based solely on their appearance flies in the face of the principles under which our nation was founded. Of course, if a gang member wished to purchase a firearm, all he would have to do is don a Brooks Brothers' suit and speak the King's English and he'd be good to go."

 

"The bottom line is this," said Pearson. "If HB6123 is passed into law, the calendar will be turned back 70 years and there will not be a gun shop in the state that will sell a firearm to an African American or Hispanic person. If that's Rep. Osterman's intent, then he has a lot of explaining to do."

 

---

 

The ISRA is the state's leading advocate of safe, lawful and responsible firearms ownership. For more than a century, the ISRA has represented the interests of millions of law-abiding Illinois firearm owners.

[Ol'Coach]

This bill offends me. Not because I have any love for 'gangbangers' but because it is an end-around of the justice system. They can't get convictions on these guys to make them prohibited persons so they 'convict' them by association. Frankly, it stinks.

 

Why? (I'm actin' "straight man" for ya.)

[Tvandermyde]

there is a debate going on about the bill and ISRA's press release at the capitolfax blog

 

http://thecapitolfaxblog.com/2010/03/15/weird-press-release-and-quinn-mightve-been-right-after-all/

[Federal Farmer]

there is a debate going on about the bill and ISRA's press release at the capitolfax blog

 

http://thecapitolfaxblog.com/2010/03/15/weird-press-release-and-quinn-mightve-been-right-after-all/

 

When I saw that press release I predicted these charges. I would not have issued it with that wording.

[Buzzard]

I have spoken with Rep. Sacia about the bill and he is committed to working on a fix to address our concerns.

 

I'll be trying to work out language this weekend for an amendment. Until an amendment is adopted, we need to call and let them know that we oppose this bill for it's broad implications.

 

Simple Question: How will I know if someone is a gang member? How will a gun dealer know if someone is a gang member? They don't have that informationinthe ISP database for background checks.

 

Not sure what happened here with Sacia. He's usually solid with us. Hope you can work things out.

 

How 'bout a little horse trading here?? If Osterman wants to keep guns out of the hands of gangbangers, how about trading some form of that for putting guns IN the hands of law-abiding citizens?? It seems we're more than willing to work with him/his people when they come up with a bill that might have some merit. How about him returning the favor? Is he so naive/hard headed that he can't see some merit to RTC by lawful citizens?? Surely he's traveled to IN or MO or MN or some other state with RTC.

 

I'll drop a note to Eddy. I'm sure he's following NRA recommendations. Anyone else that we can call besides our own legislators??

 

AB

 

I don't think we should be blaming Rep. Jim Sacia here. He's not the bill's sponsor, nor is he a co-sponsor. He does happen to be a member of the Judiciary II - Criminal Law Committee, where it appears the bill passed on a party-line vote. (004-003-000)

[abolt243]

I don't think we should be blaming Rep. Jim Sacia here. He's not the bill's sponsor, nor is he a co-sponsor. He does happen to be a member of the Judiciary II - Criminal Law Committee, where it appears the bill passed on a party-line vote. (004-003-000)

 

Buzz,

 

It was reported elsewhere that Rep Sacia flipped on us in committee and voted for the bill. That's the reason his name came up.

 

AB

[Buzzard]

I don't think we should be blaming Rep. Jim Sacia here. He's not the bill's sponsor, nor is he a co-sponsor. He does happen to be a member of the Judiciary II - Criminal Law Committee, where it appears the bill passed on a party-line vote. (004-003-000)

 

Buzz,

 

It was reported elsewhere that Rep Sacia flipped on us in committee and voted for the bill. That's the reason his name came up.

 

AB

Do we know that to be true? If so, then one of the dems voted against a dem gun bill. A bit odd, don't you think?

 

Judiciary II - Criminal Law Committee - Members

 

Chairperson : Constance A. Howard D

Vice-Chairperson : Annazette Collins D

Republican Spokesperson : Dennis M. Reboletti R

Member: Esther Golar D

Member: Emily McAsey D

Member: Jim Sacia R

Member: Ronald A. Wait R

[abolt243]

I don't think we should be blaming Rep. Jim Sacia here. He's not the bill's sponsor, nor is he a co-sponsor. He does happen to be a member of the Judiciary II - Criminal Law Committee, where it appears the bill passed on a party-line vote. (004-003-000)

 

Buzz,

 

It was reported elsewhere that Rep Sacia flipped on us in committee and voted for the bill. That's the reason his name came up.

 

AB

Do we know that to be true? If so, then one of the dems voted against a dem gun bill. A bit odd, don't you think?

 

Judiciary II - Criminal Law Committee - Members

 

Chairperson : Constance A. Howard D

Vice-Chairperson : Annazette Collins D

Republican Spokesperson : Dennis M. Reboletti R

Member: Esther Golar D

Member: Emily McAsey D

Member: Jim Sacia R

Member: Ronald A. Wait R

 

I thought I read it someplace but can't find the thread, must have been someplace else. Yes, odd, but not impossible. Let me see if I can find something from last year's session.

 

AB

[abolt243]

I don't think we should be blaming Rep. Jim Sacia here. He's not the bill's sponsor, nor is he a co-sponsor. He does happen to be a member of the Judiciary II - Criminal Law Committee, where it appears the bill passed on a party-line vote. (004-003-000)

 

Buzz,

 

It was reported elsewhere that Rep Sacia flipped on us in committee and voted for the bill. That's the reason his name came up.

 

AB

Do we know that to be true? If so, then one of the dems voted against a dem gun bill. A bit odd, don't you think?

 

 

I thought I read it someplace but can't find the thread, must have been someplace else. Yes, odd, but not impossible. Let me see if I can find something from last year's session.

 

AB

 

Here you go Buzz. See, strange things do happen sometimes!!

 

HB6123Committee.pdf

 

[Federal Farmer]

I notice Collins voted NO on this. Good for her. She is semi-sensible. She took a lot of flak for pushing for adding Eddie Eagle training into schools.

[Buzzard]

Here you go Buzz. See, strange things do happen sometimes!!

 

HB6123Committee.pdf

 

 

Wow. The Chairperson voted for it and the VC voted against it. I bet that created some heat, even though it passed. And I see Jim did vote for it. Not sure where he's going here but maybe he thought we wouldn't object to a bill such as this.

 

I called his office this morning in regards to co-sponsoring HB162 CYCLE RIDER SAFETY TRAINING and left a message for him to call me if he's not too busy. I'd quiz him about this, but Todd said not to - so I won't. It seems Jim is drawing heat to himself lately.

 

I'm told Rep. Mary Flowers went after him like a rabid dog over HB389. She called it a racist bill and then went off on tirade that rambled so badly the AIG bailouts where even included in her rant. What's so bad about HB389? Check it out -

 

Bill Status of HB0389 96th General Assembly

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Short Description: PUBLIC AID-DRUG SCREENING

 

House Sponsors

Rep. Jim Sacia

 

Last Action

Date Chamber Action

3/13/2009 House Rule 19(a) / Re-referred to Rules Committee

 

Statutes Amended In Order of Appearance

305 ILCS 5/1-10.5 new

 

 

Synopsis As Introduced

Amends the Illinois Public Aid Code. Provides that as a condition of initial eligibility for any benefits under the Code, an applicant must pass a drug screening. Provides that as a condition of continued eligibility for benefits, a recipient must pass random drug screenings as prescribed by the Department of Human Services or the Department of Healthcare and Family Services. Effective immediately.

[templar223]

First off while it may say "street gang member" here is the definition:

 

"any combination, confederation, alliance, network, conspiracy, understanding, or other similar conjoining, in law or in fact, of 3 or more persons with an established hierarchy that, through its membership or through the agency of any member engages in a course or pattern of criminal activity.

 

This sounds like a perfect description of the Chicago City Council.

That could be IS Illinois Politicians.

 

John

[Kenny]

Bill Status of HB0389 96th General Assembly

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Short Description: PUBLIC AID-DRUG SCREENING

 

House Sponsors

Rep. Jim Sacia

 

Last Action

Date Chamber Action

3/13/2009 House Rule 19(a) / Re-referred to Rules Committee

 

Statutes Amended In Order of Appearance

305 ILCS 5/1-10.5 new

 

 

Synopsis As Introduced

Amends the Illinois Public Aid Code. Provides that as a condition of initial eligibility for any benefits under the Code, an applicant must pass a drug screening. Provides that as a condition of continued eligibility for benefits, a recipient must pass random drug screenings as prescribed by the Department of Human Services or the Department of Healthcare and Family Services. Effective immediately.

 

 

I love that bill!! State employees have to take drug tests for their job why shouldn't state aid workers.

 

On another not I am willing to bet that Sacia has something else in mind and I wouldn't worry too much about him, he won't let anything bad get by without a fight.

[Buzzard]

Bill Status of HB0389 96th General Assembly

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Short Description: PUBLIC AID-DRUG SCREENING

 

House Sponsors

Rep. Jim Sacia

 

Last Action

Date Chamber Action

3/13/2009 House Rule 19(a) / Re-referred to Rules Committee

 

Statutes Amended In Order of Appearance

305 ILCS 5/1-10.5 new

 

 

Synopsis As Introduced

Amends the Illinois Public Aid Code. Provides that as a condition of initial eligibility for any benefits under the Code, an applicant must pass a drug screening. Provides that as a condition of continued eligibility for benefits, a recipient must pass random drug screenings as prescribed by the Department of Human Services or the Department of Healthcare and Family Services. Effective immediately.

 

I love that bill!! State employees have to take drug tests for their job why shouldn't state aid workers.

 

On another not I am willing to bet that Sacia has something else in mind and I wouldn't worry too much about him, he won't let anything bad get by without a fight.

 

Then you're gonna REALLY love this!!

 

It's not state aid workers that will be tested - it's mandatory drug testing to receive state aid!

 

It's anyone tha want's to apply and receive state aid benefits that will be tested and be subject to random testing.

 

If the people who work and pay taxes are subjected to these rules - why not the one's that are living off public aid?

[45superman]

Osterman has filed an amendment to his "gangbanger" bill, HB 6123. It seems to just be a clarification, and doesn't really change anything--we still need to kill it.

 

Here's the text:

AMENDMENT TO HOUSE BILL 6123

 

AMENDMENT NO. ______. Amend House Bill 6123 on page 5, by

replacing lines 7 and 8 with the following:

"(l) Sells or gives any firearm to any person whom the

seller or giver knows is a street gang member. For purposes

of this paragraph".

[Buzzard]

This bill is meaningless when they are releasing dangerous felons from prison through an artificially accelerated 'meritorious good time' served basis. Let's call it what it is - a catch and release program for criminals! And where is Rep. Mary Flowers with her claims of 'racist bills' on this one? Is it not inner city African/Spanish/Latino Americans that are street gang members?