GarandFan Posted January 27, 2009 at 09:52 PM Posted January 27, 2009 at 09:52 PM Getting the IL Sheriff's Association support is BIG TIME. Let's get this ball rolling ... and begin to contact the IL Chiefs of Police Assn, and the Illinois State Police. We need to put the pressure on them! Let's not get all uptight and offended by their various concerns that seem laughable to us. Let's educate them, and let them know that we are strong in number and voice! http://qconline.com/archives/qco/display.p...ncealed%20carry Taking up arms: Proposed bill would allow Illinoisans to carry concealed handgunsOriginally Posted Online: Jan. 24, 2009, 6:44 pmLast Updated: Jan. 25, 2009, 4:09 pm By Stephen Elliott, selliott@qconline.com Illinois law enforcement officials are divided over a new attempt to permit the state's residents to carry concealed handguns. Rep. John Bradley, D-Marion, has proposed a "Family and Personal Protection Act" that would set statewide standards for issuing concealed-carry permits and would exempt permit holders from various unlawful use of weapons laws. The bill, HB0245, was referred to the rules committee after first reading last week. Similar bills have been introduced, and shunted aside, in most recent legislative sessions. This year, though, the idea could get a boost from the Illinois Sheriff's Association. That group's new president, Henry County Sheriff Gib Cady, a supporter of concealed-carry laws, will urge the association to endorse the idea when it holds its annual meeting at the i wireless Center in Moline in February. He said he believes a majority of Illinois' 102 county sheriffs support a concealed-carry law provided there is training and background checks. He said statistics show crime goes down in states with concealed-carry laws. Not everyone in law enforcement feels that way, however. "The threat to law enforcement would be enormous with that many people out there allowed to carry guns," said Moline Police Chief Gary Francque. "I am a supporter of a person maintaining a weapon in their home and defending in their homes, but to be out running around with concealed weapons, you're asking for a huge increase in violence." East Moline Police Chief Victor Moreno warned that a concealed carry law, besides creating the possibility that handguns carried for protection could be taken away by criminals, would alter the way police and public interact. He said it would change officers' approach to an individual because of the potential of them carrying a handgun. "Is that positive?" Chief Moreno asked. "The contact you have with the public will be different." Proponents, though, believe a concealed-carry law will enable citizens to protect themselves. "We know when somebody is mugged or robbed at gunpoint, they have zero chance of resisting," said National Rifle Association spokesman Todd Vandermyde. "Now, we're leveling the playing field." Illinois is one of two states (Wisconsin is the other) without some form of a concealed-carry handgun law. Sheriff Cady, who's held his office since 1978, said the 2008 U.S. Supreme Court decision that overturned a District of Columbia ban on handgun ownership is fueling new attempts to approve the concealed-carry law. "It's out there," the sheriff said of concealed-carry. "The sheriff's association always strives to represent the wishes of the people, while at the same time maintain maximum public safety for those we represent." "We're going to make a run at it," the NRA's Mr. Vandermyde added. "We're cautiously optimistic. We wouldn't be handing permits out like movie tickets." State Rep. Pat Verschoore, D-Milan, who says he's in favor of concealed-carry, isn't so optimistic the law will pass. "It's going to have a tough time, I think," Rep. Verschoore said. "You've got the Chicago legislators and most of the suburbs that will probably be against it. Most Republicans will vote with the downstate Democrats (for it). I'm like Gib (Cady) in that I believe there has to be stringent guidelines to this. "You have to take a course and have a complete and thorough background check so you don't have some former felon or a person with a mental condition (carrying a handgun)." State Sen. Mike Jacobs, D-East Moline, also supports a concealed-carry law. "One day, the right to carry will be something that will be at their (citizens') disposal," Sen. Jacobs said. "The way I see it is that people have to make sure, if you're going to carry, to be trained." Sheriff Cady agreed. "One of the issues is a person who makes an application for concealed-carry must expect a lot of scrutiny," he said. Mercer County Sheriff Tom Thompson said he supports a concealed-carry law, provided proper training is in place for gunowners. "Our concern is to make sure people allowed to carry (handguns) are, first of all, qualified to carry it," Sheriff Thompson said. "Obviously, you don't want everybody around with concealed weapons. I think it can be (a law) if it is written properly. It can be a good thing. A lot of people feel strongly on both sides." Laimutis Nargelenas, deputy director of the Illinois Association of Chiefs of Police in Springfield, said the association is opposed to concealed-carry legislation. "We do have police chiefs, particularly in southern Illinois, that think it might be a good thing," Mr. Nargelenas said. "Most of the chiefs in the suburbs in the Chicago area are concerned with that many more people on the street carrying firearms. "We've been looking out there as an organization at various studies. Some (studies) show it may have an affect on crime. Others, it appears it doesn't." Henry County State's Attorney Terry Patton said he would support concealed-carry legislation if data shows it reduces crime. "I think it ought to be studied," Mr. Patton said. "Most people, their initial reaction is if you allow conceal carry, it would turn into the wild, wild west. But if evidence from conceal states proves that's not the case, that's reason to look at it in Illinois." Rock Island Sheriff Mike Huff has a slightly different take. Sheriff Huff said he supports concealed-carry for correctional officers, prosecutors and judges. He wants more information before making a decision on allowing the general public to carry handguns. Rock Island County States Attorney Jeff Terronez, Rock Island Police Chief John Wright and Rep. Mike Boland, D-East Moline, did not return phone calls seeking comment on the issue.
Jeff Johnson Posted January 27, 2009 at 10:14 PM Posted January 27, 2009 at 10:14 PM yea Sheriff Gib Cady!I spoke to him about this when I heard he was elected pres of the ISA. I think I need to call him again and thank him.
GWBH Posted January 27, 2009 at 10:23 PM Posted January 27, 2009 at 10:23 PM I agree...A number of the members of this forum, and the gun community at large, have miles more experience with firearms that 90% (estimate) of the law enforcement community, and are just as responsible, if not more. (We have to know the law with respect to firearms or we go to jail!!)Let's contact our respective GA members and get them up to speed with the rest of the nation!There are plenty of studies already done by any number of states - all they have to do is read them.
SirMatthew Posted January 27, 2009 at 10:39 PM Posted January 27, 2009 at 10:39 PM Getting the IL Sheriff's Association support is BIG TIME. Let's get this ball rolling ... and begin to contact the IL Chiefs of Police Assn, and the Illinois State Police. We need to put the pressure on them! Let's not get all uptight and offended by their various concerns that seem laughable to us. Let's educate them, and let them know that we are strong in number and voice! http://qconline.com/archives/qco/display.p...ncealed%20carry Taking up arms: Proposed bill would allow Illinoisans to carry concealed handgunsOriginally Posted Online: Jan. 24, 2009, 6:44 pmLast Updated: Jan. 25, 2009, 4:09 pm By Stephen Elliott, selliott@qconline.com Illinois law enforcement officials are divided over a new attempt to permit the state's residents to carry concealed handguns. Rep. John Bradley, D-Marion, has proposed a "Family and Personal Protection Act" that would set statewide standards for issuing concealed-carry permits and would exempt permit holders from various unlawful use of weapons laws. The bill, HB0245, was referred to the rules committee after first reading last week. Similar bills have been introduced, and shunted aside, in most recent legislative sessions. This year, though, the idea could get a boost from the Illinois Sheriff's Association. That group's new president, Henry County Sheriff Gib Cady, a supporter of concealed-carry laws, will urge the association to endorse the idea when it holds its annual meeting at the i wireless Center in Moline in February. He said he believes a majority of Illinois' 102 county sheriffs support a concealed-carry law provided there is training and background checks. He said statistics show crime goes down in states with concealed-carry laws. Not everyone in law enforcement feels that way, however. "The threat to law enforcement would be enormous with that many people out there allowed to carry guns," said Moline Police Chief Gary Francque. "I am a supporter of a person maintaining a weapon in their home and defending in their homes, but to be out running around with concealed weapons, you're asking for a huge increase in violence." East Moline Police Chief Victor Moreno warned that a concealed carry law, besides creating the possibility that handguns carried for protection could be taken away by criminals, would alter the way police and public interact. He said it would change officers' approach to an individual because of the potential of them carrying a handgun. "Is that positive?" Chief Moreno asked. "The contact you have with the public will be different." Proponents, though, believe a concealed-carry law will enable citizens to protect themselves. "We know when somebody is mugged or robbed at gunpoint, they have zero chance of resisting," said National Rifle Association spokesman Todd Vandermyde. "Now, we're leveling the playing field." Illinois is one of two states (Wisconsin is the other) without some form of a concealed-carry handgun law. Sheriff Cady, who's held his office since 1978, said the 2008 U.S. Supreme Court decision that overturned a District of Columbia ban on handgun ownership is fueling new attempts to approve the concealed-carry law. "It's out there," the sheriff said of concealed-carry. "The sheriff's association always strives to represent the wishes of the people, while at the same time maintain maximum public safety for those we represent." "We're going to make a run at it," the NRA's Mr. Vandermyde added. "We're cautiously optimistic. We wouldn't be handing permits out like movie tickets." State Rep. Pat Verschoore, D-Milan, who says he's in favor of concealed-carry, isn't so optimistic the law will pass. "It's going to have a tough time, I think," Rep. Verschoore said. "You've got the Chicago legislators and most of the suburbs that will probably be against it. Most Republicans will vote with the downstate Democrats (for it). I'm like Gib (Cady) in that I believe there has to be stringent guidelines to this. "You have to take a course and have a complete and thorough background check so you don't have some former felon or a person with a mental condition (carrying a handgun)." State Sen. Mike Jacobs, D-East Moline, also supports a concealed-carry law. "One day, the right to carry will be something that will be at their (citizens') disposal," Sen. Jacobs said. "The way I see it is that people have to make sure, if you're going to carry, to be trained." Sheriff Cady agreed. "One of the issues is a person who makes an application for concealed-carry must expect a lot of scrutiny," he said. Mercer County Sheriff Tom Thompson said he supports a concealed-carry law, provided proper training is in place for gunowners. "Our concern is to make sure people allowed to carry (handguns) are, first of all, qualified to carry it," Sheriff Thompson said. "Obviously, you don't want everybody around with concealed weapons. I think it can be (a law) if it is written properly. It can be a good thing. A lot of people feel strongly on both sides." Laimutis Nargelenas, deputy director of the Illinois Association of Chiefs of Police in Springfield, said the association is opposed to concealed-carry legislation. "We do have police chiefs, particularly in southern Illinois, that think it might be a good thing," Mr. Nargelenas said. "Most of the chiefs in the suburbs in the Chicago area are concerned with that many more people on the street carrying firearms. "We've been looking out there as an organization at various studies. Some (studies) show it may have an affect on crime. Others, it appears it doesn't." Henry County State's Attorney Terry Patton said he would support concealed-carry legislation if data shows it reduces crime. "I think it ought to be studied," Mr. Patton said. "Most people, their initial reaction is if you allow conceal carry, it would turn into the wild, wild west. But if evidence from conceal states proves that's not the case, that's reason to look at it in Illinois." Rock Island Sheriff Mike Huff has a slightly different take. Sheriff Huff said he supports concealed-carry for correctional officers, prosecutors and judges. He wants more information before making a decision on allowing the general public to carry handguns. Rock Island County States Attorney Jeff Terronez, Rock Island Police Chief John Wright and Rep. Mike Boland, D-East Moline, did not return phone calls seeking comment on the issue. It is not often someone literally hands us the keys and points the way to the door, but that is precisely what this article has done for us. I highlighted in red above the names of those opposed or on the fence about this issue, so let's try to persuade them with the facts. Send them a personal letter, print out gunfacts, clip articles, send links to university studies; do whatever it takes to provide them with resources to educate them and win their support for our cause. I'm going to send them a manila envelope FILLED with resources. This is one time I will not be worried about overwhelming them with information.
SirMatthew Posted January 27, 2009 at 10:44 PM Posted January 27, 2009 at 10:44 PM You can use this link to acquire contact info for each county sheriff: http://www.ilsheriff.org/Information/Sheri...86/Default.aspx The event is only a few days away, email might be the best method at this point.
GWBH Posted January 27, 2009 at 11:03 PM Posted January 27, 2009 at 11:03 PM You can use this link to acquire contact info for each county sheriff: http://www.ilsheriff.org/Information/Sheri...86/Default.aspx The event is only a few days away, email might be the best method at this point. Thanks Sir M...Forum Members: This would also be a great time to mention that you have an LTC from another state and can carry legally in a number of states. I'll tell you this - LTC is so common place in S. Indiana that the cops hardly even look at you!
Rem870 Posted January 27, 2009 at 11:16 PM Posted January 27, 2009 at 11:16 PM looks like a step in the right direction...
boog Posted January 27, 2009 at 11:33 PM Posted January 27, 2009 at 11:33 PM just sent my e-mail letter to dupage county sherriff, included my info about trip to Utah, i guess we will see what happens
Bitter Posted January 27, 2009 at 11:51 PM Posted January 27, 2009 at 11:51 PM Did anyone notice the picture that went with the story? A guy in a dress shirt carrying mexican for cross-draw...Hardly anyone carries Mexican that I know (except off duty cops). It looks slovenly and irresponsible. It gives the wrong signal for that to be the photo for this story, the writer just had to throw some bias in there.......
boog Posted January 28, 2009 at 12:01 AM Posted January 28, 2009 at 12:01 AM just to let everyone know this is what i sent sir, please support any bill for conceal carry in Illinois. I currently have a permit for conceal carry from Utah, and Florida. With these permits I can legally carry a concealed firearm in over 30 States. I am a very law abiding citizen and never want to shoot anyone, but if someone attacks me in my home State I am defenseless. Myself and my wife just went to Utah last weekend and now both of us are certified by the State of Utah to teach their conceal carry class. While in Utah for three days, I didn't see or hear on the news anything about gunfights at high noon, or shootouts over parking spaces, no road rage shootings. the people that get these permits don't want to shoot anyone. They just want the chance to protect themselves and their family outside their home. I will also say that while I was in Utah, I carried my concealed firearm all three days, even in the classroom where 3 Utah officers were present. One even asked if anyone was carrying in the class. almost all of the 50 students raised their hands. He said "good for you, why aren't the rest of you". Sincerely, Greg PowellHanover Park, Illinois 60133
BShawn Posted January 28, 2009 at 12:31 AM Posted January 28, 2009 at 12:31 AM just to let everyone know this is what i sent sir, please support any bill for conceal carry in Illinois. I currently have a permit for conceal carry from Utah, and Florida. With these permits I can legally carry a concealed firearm in over 30 States. I am a very law abiding citizen and never want to shoot anyone, but if someone attacks me in my home State I am defenseless. Myself and my wife just went to Utah last weekend and now both of us are certified by the State of Utah to teach their conceal carry class. While in Utah for three days, I didn't see or hear on the news anything about gunfights at high noon, or shootouts over parking spaces, no road rage shootings. the people that get these permits don't want to shoot anyone. They just want the chance to protect themselves and their family outside their home. I will also say that while I was in Utah, I carried my concealed firearm all three days, even in the classroom where 3 Utah officers were present. One even asked if anyone was carrying in the class. almost all of the 50 students raised their hands. He said "good for you, why aren't the rest of you". Sincerely, Greg PowellHanover Park, Illinois 60133 So I assume you're in the Dupage part of Hangover Park? (Part of Hanover Pk is Cook, and part DuPage right?)
boog Posted January 28, 2009 at 12:35 AM Posted January 28, 2009 at 12:35 AM i wouldn't live in Cook County, or Chicago for 100 Trillion dollars, all of their politicians can kiss my redneck, hillbilly, gunloving a$$
Bitter Posted January 28, 2009 at 01:12 AM Posted January 28, 2009 at 01:12 AM I sent the following email to Woodford County: Dear Sir, I understand that Henry County Sheriff Gib Cady will urge the Sheriff's Association to endorse the "Family and Personal Protection Act" at the annual meeting in February. The legislation would allow law-abiding and trained civilians to carry a concealed firearm for their protection and that of their family. I strongly support this legislation, and urge you to support it as well through endorsement by the Sheriff's Association. *Personal Information Here* I am licensed to carry a firearm in Missouri, and do so safely and responsibly on a daily basis. I have encountered law enforcement while carrying outside Illinois; the vast majority of whom are not only supportive of the practice, but encourage it as an effective way to make society safer. Although some fear that allowing concealed weapons would lead to an increase in violent crime, the effect in the 48 states that allow it has been quite the opposite. Responsible adults that have been trained in the legal ramifications of carrying a firearm, of firearm safety, and in marksmanship have little reason to commit crimes with their handguns. For a license-holder to commit such a crime would mean financial and personal ruin, imprisonment, and the lifetime loss of the right to possess any firearm. In regard to concerned and law-abiding citizens, such a risk would virtually never be worth taking unless their life or bodily integrity was in serious danger. For these reasons, neither law enforcement nor non-carrying citizens need to fear a licensed civilian. Unfortunately, criminals are not deterred by gun laws. They will carry firearms illegally whether or not law-abiding citizens can, and will continue to use weapons on unarmed and helpless civilians. It is my absolute right to protect myself and my loved ones from such threats, and for this reason I fully support the above mentioned legislation. The time has come for Illinois to discover what 48 other states, including the neighboring states of Indiana, Missouri, Iowa, and Kentucky already have - that concealed carry laws save lives and preserve liberty in its purest form. It is my sincere hope that you will agree and endorse the legislation through the Sheriff's Association, or at least consider the argument with an open mind. Regards, XXCity, State
boog Posted January 28, 2009 at 01:19 AM Posted January 28, 2009 at 01:19 AM one more thing, can the general public attent this meeting, i and my wife would consider going
Bitter Posted January 28, 2009 at 01:37 AM Posted January 28, 2009 at 01:37 AM I doubt it, I looked on the Sheriff's Association newsletter and the event is listed as a training convention
GarandFan Posted January 28, 2009 at 01:41 AM Author Posted January 28, 2009 at 01:41 AM Dear Bitter: I've seen this concept expressed many, many times, in many ways ... but I think this might be the most eloquent, sincere, and personal expression that I have had the pleasure to read. Thank you for that, and thanks for contacting the Sheriffs. Although some fear that allowing concealed weapons would lead to an increase in violent crime, the effect in the 48 states that allow it has been quite the opposite. Responsible adults that have been trained in the legal ramifications of carrying a firearm, of firearm safety, and in marksmanship have little reason to commit crimes with their handguns. For a license-holder to commit such a crime would mean financial and personal ruin, imprisonment, and the lifetime loss of the right to possess any firearm. In regard to concerned and law-abiding citizens, such a risk would virtually never be worth taking unless their life or bodily integrity was in serious danger. For these reasons, neither law enforcement nor non-carrying citizens need to fear a licensed civilian.
GarandFan Posted January 28, 2009 at 01:43 AM Author Posted January 28, 2009 at 01:43 AM one more thing, can the general public attent this meeting, i and my wife would consider going I believe that at this stage, this is an Association issue ... not a public issue. It will go public, and quite soon enough. For now just let the Sheriffs work this out ... and send them the support they deserve. I was surprised, frankly, to find this article in print.
Buzzard Posted January 28, 2009 at 02:38 AM Posted January 28, 2009 at 02:38 AM From the above article: That group's new president, Henry County Sheriff Gib Cady, a supporter of concealed-carry laws, will urge the association to endorse the idea when it holds its annual meeting at the i wireless Center in Moline in February. He said he believes a majority of Illinois' 102 county sheriffs support a concealed-carry law provided there is training and background checks.If the new president of the Illinois Sheriff's Association is pushing for the associations support and he feels most sheriffs already do, wouldn't we be working smarter to write to the larger cities police chiefs to educate them and earn their support? Thinking back through a years worth of news items, it seems it's always the local police chief that thinks citizens legally carrying is a bad idea. Read this very article and it's the police, not the sheriffs that are against concealed carry (LTC). I see no harm in communicating our support to the different county sheriffs. But I see a bigger net gain in support if we try to get some larger city police chiefs to come around. Comments?
flagtag Posted January 28, 2009 at 02:43 AM Posted January 28, 2009 at 02:43 AM When contacting your Sheriff, you might want to also include the link to: www.handgunlaw.us. That way, if they choose, they can check out the rules/laws for each state and determine how many licenses/permits that each state honors. (eg. according to IN, "Indiana Honors all other states Permit/Licenses". )
Lou Posted January 28, 2009 at 02:51 AM Posted January 28, 2009 at 02:51 AM I just wrote to Sheriff Zaruba from DuPage County. It would be great to have the sheriff for the second largest county on our side.
abolt243 Posted January 28, 2009 at 03:06 AM Posted January 28, 2009 at 03:06 AM I see no harm in communicating our support to the different county sheriffs. But I see a bigger net gain in support if we try to get some larger city police chiefs to come around. Comments? Agreed, perhaps targeting the people mentioned in the article for starters??!!
Bitter Posted January 28, 2009 at 03:14 AM Posted January 28, 2009 at 03:14 AM I see no harm in communicating our support to the different county sheriffs. But I see a bigger net gain in support if we try to get some larger city police chiefs to come around. Comments? Agreed. With the Sheriff's Association coming up though, it might be something that we can actually influence. If the ISA actually does endorse the legislation, that will be an excellent talking point to use on the local police. If it looks like we even have an outside chance of getting the support of one group, I think we should exploit that and use that success to gain momentum with other groups. If we just constantly bombard the police they might listen, or they might get annoyed.
Buzzard Posted January 28, 2009 at 03:20 AM Posted January 28, 2009 at 03:20 AM I know my local sheriff, Greg Beitel, supports LTC. I recall a Freeport newspaper article that quoted a police lietenant that was against civilian carry. Rockford Police chief is against civilian carry but Winnebago county sheriff Dick Meiers supports a state LTC law. SO I think we should be speaking with larger city police chiefs and trying to get their support. The chiefs that are quoted in the above article obviously need to be contacted and presented with facts. And county states attorneys too.
eric2281 Posted January 28, 2009 at 03:29 AM Posted January 28, 2009 at 03:29 AM Those folks need copies of gunfacts STAT!
Silver Guardian Posted January 28, 2009 at 03:46 AM Posted January 28, 2009 at 03:46 AM I just wrote to Sheriff Zaruba from DuPage County. It would be great to have the sheriff for the second largest county on our side. Just sent one to Zaruba myself. I hope I get a reply whether it be a good or bad one just to know where he stands.
Kipp Jones Posted January 28, 2009 at 04:28 AM Posted January 28, 2009 at 04:28 AM Did anyone notice the picture that went with the story? A guy in a dress shirt carrying mexican for cross-draw...Hardly anyone carries Mexican that I know (except off duty cops). It looks slovenly and irresponsible. It gives the wrong signal for that to be the photo for this story, the writer just had to throw some bias in there....... While I agree it is the wrong representation of CC, how you holster is an individual preference. It should not be called "Mexican". How about "Cross Draw".
Bitter Posted January 28, 2009 at 05:01 AM Posted January 28, 2009 at 05:01 AM well, carrying in that manner isn't "holstering" at all. I don't know of any advantage to carrying that way that can't be done with a proper holster, but lots of risks, especially with a DAO semi that most likely doesn't have a manual safety. If there were some specific reason to carry like that it is one thing, other than that I believe it is irresponsible, unless it is in your own home and only you are at risk. While I respect preferences, I do not think those preferences should sacrifice safety if the risk could easily be avoided. A revolver I could see, maybe even a 1911, but not a DAO. That is how idiots like Plaxico Burris take a .40 to the thigh in a nightclub and give us all a bad name, playing right into the rhetoric of carrying causing accidents. I guess if the argument is that the term commonly used is politically incorrect, that is a whole other argument. I've just never heard it called anything else.
Silver Guardian Posted January 28, 2009 at 05:03 AM Posted January 28, 2009 at 05:03 AM well, carrying in that manner isn't "holstering" at all. I don't know of any advantage to carrying that way that can't be done with a proper holster, but lots of risks, especially with a DAO semi that most likely doesn't have a manual safety. If there were some specific reason to carry like that it is one thing, other than that I believe it is irresponsible, unless it is in your own home and only you are at risk. While I respect preferences, I do not think those preferences should sacrifice safety if the risk could easily be avoided. A revolver I could see, maybe even a 1911, but not a DAO. That is how idiots like Plaxico Burris take a .40 to the thigh in a nightclub and give us all a bad name, playing right into the rhetoric of carrying causing accidents. I guess if the argument is that the term commonly used is politically incorrect, that is a whole other argument. I've just never heard it called anything else. If you are planning on carrying a gun you must wear a minimum of jeans. Not to detract from the main topic, but Plaxico wore sweatpants.
Bitter Posted January 28, 2009 at 05:18 AM Posted January 28, 2009 at 05:18 AM jeans or not, I'm not walking around with the barrel of a loaded gun against my junk and the trigger rubbing against my skin and pants as I walk. If yall are that confident that you are going to risk getting your manhood blown off, be my guest I'll admit that i will carry from room to room in the small of my back sometimes if I am carrying something and dont have on my holster, but never in public. Yes Plaxico was wearing sweatpants, I can't even fathom what was going through his mind but it still gives bad press because we all seem like that to the antis.
Buzzard Posted January 28, 2009 at 05:42 AM Posted January 28, 2009 at 05:42 AM This should go without saying. But don't forget to call and write your house representative as tell them you are strongly in favor of HB 0245! And if you can, attend IGOLD on March 11 and tell them in person!
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