cm.stites Posted October 30, 2013 at 02:30 PM Posted October 30, 2013 at 02:30 PM Looking at possibly trying a couple idpa matches in the next year or so.I have been looking at 2 different handguns for this one being a m&p 9mm and the other being a RIA 1911 9mm.. I believe the m&p can be run in SSP/ESP and i believe the RIA would fall into the ESP class... was just wondering if the ESP class is popular around here running minor power factor or if i should go with SSP class. yes i know theres other guns out there but these are the ones that fit in the budget ive allowed for a "starter" competition gun while im still working on a few other projects.
TyGuy Posted October 30, 2013 at 02:38 PM Posted October 30, 2013 at 02:38 PM Are you looking to game it or use it as more of a training activity? I've shot USPSA with an XDS before.
cm.stites Posted October 30, 2013 at 02:45 PM Author Posted October 30, 2013 at 02:45 PM just for fun pretty much.
TyGuy Posted October 30, 2013 at 03:01 PM Posted October 30, 2013 at 03:01 PM Then shoot what you like. Don't worry about what class you're in if you aren't competing. I record my scores and track my progress. I know there will be better shooters than me and worse ones. I don't get hung up on how I stack up. As long as I am improving I am happy. If you can get someone to video record you (I almost said video tape, yikes) that will give you another record to see if your technique is getting better. I am going to shoot my next match with a revolver. There will most likely be NO other revolver shooters, so I won't be able to compare myself anyway, however if I shoot it a few times I should see my reloads improve and my time come down. IDK, that's what I take out of it, to improve myself. If you were trying to be a serious competitor than my advice is not helpful. That's a totally valid path too, just not the one I am taking.
sctman800 Posted October 30, 2013 at 03:09 PM Posted October 30, 2013 at 03:09 PM SSP and ESP both have the same power factor 125. This is weight of pullet in grains times speed in FPS divided by 1000; so 125gr bullet must run a minimum of 1000 FPS. 125x1000/1000=125power factor. There are no bonus points or different scoring for more power, since each division has only a minimum power factor. CDP is 165 as is ESR with SSR is lower at 105. Jim.
BradS Posted October 30, 2013 at 03:23 PM Posted October 30, 2013 at 03:23 PM Division by gun you shoot. Class or classification by your proficiency level. Now that I have that out of the way, you don't have to think of either gun as a starter gun. Look at Dave Sevigny previously of Team Glock, it's s $400 to $600 gun. I'm pretty sure he has won both USPSA Production and Limited Nationals with a Glock. Limited division is where the $3,000 STI/SVI 2011 raceguns come out to play. And Dave stomped 'em all with an el cheapo Glock.
Fuse Posted October 30, 2013 at 03:30 PM Posted October 30, 2013 at 03:30 PM Shoot what you like. If you care about division, I would probably go with the M&P as anything SSP legal can also be shot in ESP. Though SSP is a bit more forgiving on classification times.SSP is more popular than ESP, at least in the local Bloomington, IL club.
BradS Posted October 30, 2013 at 03:32 PM Posted October 30, 2013 at 03:32 PM If you sandbagg the IDPA classifier, it really doesn't matter which division you shoot.
cm.stites Posted October 30, 2013 at 03:38 PM Author Posted October 30, 2013 at 03:38 PM didnt know bloomington had a idpa club??? i guess thats really bad since im only a half hour away. haha. i know the m&p is a capable gun ive owned the 40 model in it and really liked it but im also a 1911 fan... it seems like alot of people dont like the ria i guess because its to cheap for thier taste? i mean if i could afford a wilson id be all over it or even a nighthawk but with this pension fiasco and stuff i cant justify spending 4k on a handgun haha.
BradS Posted October 30, 2013 at 03:58 PM Posted October 30, 2013 at 03:58 PM I had not heard about Nighthawk's pension problem. Yeah, each match can be kind of a fashion show. Just an FYI: http://media.stiguns.com/ContingencyRewards/ContingencyForm_v12_1.pdf
cm.stites Posted October 30, 2013 at 04:27 PM Author Posted October 30, 2013 at 04:27 PM I had not heard about Nighthawk's pension problem. Yeah, each match can be kind of a fashion show. Just an FYI: http://media.stiguns...yForm_v12_1.pdf its not nighthawk with a pension problem its illinois with a pension problem. and im a state employee whos pension is involved in the mess. ( in other words i dont really have one)
BradS Posted October 30, 2013 at 04:48 PM Posted October 30, 2013 at 04:48 PM Oh, my bad. Sorry to hear that. Just to put this bug in your ear, I am assuming the M&P is a double stack column gun. Reloads are much faster/smoother trying to fit a wedge shaped mag into a large hole versus a single stack mag in a skinny hole.
Fuse Posted October 30, 2013 at 05:09 PM Posted October 30, 2013 at 05:09 PM didnt know bloomington had a idpa club??? i guess thats really bad since im only a half hour away. haha. i know the m&p is a capable gun ive owned the 40 model in it and really liked it but im also a 1911 fan... it seems like alot of people dont like the ria i guess because its to cheap for thier taste? i mean if i could afford a wilson id be all over it or even a nighthawk but with this pension fiasco and stuff i cant justify spending 4k on a handgun haha. bloomingtonidpa.com Some videos from Sunday's match.
BradS Posted October 30, 2013 at 05:42 PM Posted October 30, 2013 at 05:42 PM In that second video, are the targets with the black spray painted X's on them meant to be hard cover or no-shoot/non-threat targets?
Jen-in-Normal Posted October 30, 2013 at 05:51 PM Posted October 30, 2013 at 05:51 PM Hehehe, I was at Darnall's Sunday taking my CCW class. I'm definitely interested in IDPA for training purposes. I am not out to compete against others, just myself. That's for posting the link to the Bloomington IDPA site.
BradS Posted October 30, 2013 at 05:55 PM Posted October 30, 2013 at 05:55 PM Take the minimum round count required for the stage. Let's say it is 6 bad guy targets, 12 shots total, right? You should be shooting the stage in 12 seconds or less. Look at the major match results. The top Master classed shooters are all finishing up right at the total round count for the entire match.
Fuse Posted October 30, 2013 at 06:29 PM Posted October 30, 2013 at 06:29 PM In that second video, are the targets with the black spray painted X's on them meant to be hard cover or no-shoot/non-threat targets?Non threat. Hey, sorry to offtrack the topic.
BradS Posted October 30, 2013 at 07:53 PM Posted October 30, 2013 at 07:53 PM I hear IDPA changed their rulebook lately, so I am used to the old way of giving no-shoot/non-threat targets "jazz hands": http://feedtim.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/jazzhands.jpeg http://www.olegvolk.net/olegv/newsite/gungames/noshoot_s.jpg having been a MD, I am kind of picky about things...furring strips sticking out of shoulders is one of my pet peeves. But, back on topic.... the thing with a 1911 is it can be a money pit with all the doodads and chatchkeys you can put on it. The first being a mag well of some sort to make reloads easier/faster. EDIT: another pet peeve is target stands not staked down to the ground. You will have yay-hoos...well, to be blunt, cheat. They will lightly kick the target stand over a few inches while pasting. So in the pic above, it would make it easier to double tap the bad guy target without dinging the no-shoot and getting heavily penalized. Then when they are done shooting, they will kick the target stand back over making it more difficult for the next guy to shoot the stage.
cm.stites Posted October 30, 2013 at 08:15 PM Author Posted October 30, 2013 at 08:15 PM being in the ssp and esp classes neither one is a money pit and were designed that way for a reason... no magwells or much of anything other then sights or magazines in ssp...esp well yeah i can put a magwell and stuff on and most of the allowed modifications i would do to a 1911 anyways.. i think i will go ahead with it and then plan on a xdm or m&p compact for later in the year.. not real worried about being fast just doing it for fun and know how capable i am already.
BradS Posted October 31, 2013 at 03:48 AM Posted October 31, 2013 at 03:48 AM I know a guy... He's selling an STI 2011 gun meant for ESP for $2,400. That's without anyMags. $2,450 with one mag My recommendation is to shoot just a match or two. If you are really interested in shooting better or improving, time at aMatch is wasted. You'll do 3 to 4 hours of standing around for maybe a minute to two minutes worth of shooting.
cm.stites Posted October 31, 2013 at 04:19 AM Author Posted October 31, 2013 at 04:19 AM if i get much better obama will send a hitsquad after me haha.
illinisnare Posted November 2, 2013 at 05:10 AM Posted November 2, 2013 at 05:10 AM If you are really interested in shooting better or improving, time at aMatch is wasted. You'll do 3 to 4 hours of standing around for maybe a minute to two minutes worth of shooting. And if you end up really liking the game, you too could invest over 13 hours (5 driving, 8 shooting) going to a major match for 3 minutes of shooting (after penalties). Horribly inefficient, but fun!
sctman800 Posted November 2, 2013 at 10:43 AM Posted November 2, 2013 at 10:43 AM If you are really interested in shooting better or improving, time at aMatch is wasted. You'll do 3 to 4 hours of standing around for maybe a minute to two minutes worth of shooting. And if you end up really liking the game, you too could invest over 13 hours (5 driving, 8 shooting) going to a major match for 3 minutes of shooting (after penalties). Horribly inefficient, but fun! The two clubs nearest to me are 80 and 110 miles away in Indiana and I have done 90% of my IDPA shooting there for about 7 years. Both clubs have a group of shooters one expects to see each month. There are also some people you expect to see at both clubs. These are some of the best people I have ever met and so the time spent standing around is spent with these people. And some how there is allways room for more friends. How well I shoot does not make the day good or bad; it is being with friends that make all these days good. Jim.
cherryriver Posted November 2, 2013 at 11:33 AM Posted November 2, 2013 at 11:33 AM Speaking as one of the match directors sctman800's visited on the Hoosier side, he speaks the big truth.And, there's few IDPAers more welcome on any range I'm on- that attitude is as good as it gets. Now, a point I make in a lot of our classes is that going to an IDPA (or USPSA) match isn't so much about competition or winning, even though many of us are wired that way.It's about high-quality trigger time: using the holster, getting the draw right, moving, finding solutions, thinking while the gun's firing, and just plain using the basic handgun skills you could never, ever use in a public, commercial range.If you're going to carry in real life, there is little you could do for less than a thousand bucks that would make you better, more competent, and more confident and keep up your proficiency than monthly or weekly action pistol shooting.www.idpa.comwww.uspsa.orgI like them both, and run programs in both. Keep an open mind, learn something, and have fun.
sctman800 Posted November 2, 2013 at 12:24 PM Posted November 2, 2013 at 12:24 PM cheryriver is one of the match directors at the range I visit every chance I get and comes up with some of the most chalenging and fun matches I have attended. I don't get there too often since it is 150 miles away but is allways a treat to go somewhere new. Even though I don't get there often enough to form a bond with people like at ACC and Wildcat Valley, I seem to always shoot with good people where ever I go. Jim.
BradS Posted November 2, 2013 at 12:27 PM Posted November 2, 2013 at 12:27 PM If you are really interested in shooting better or improving, time at aMatch is wasted. You'll do 3 to 4 hours of standing around for maybe a minute to two minutes worth of shooting. And if you end up really liking the game, you too could invest over 13 hours (5 driving, 8 shooting) going to a major match for 3 minutes of shooting (after penalties). Horribly inefficient, but fun! In 2007, I drove straight from the Belleville area to Allentown, PA to shoot and SO the IDPA Nat's. I won my class in my division and got the bump to the next class. Bill Wilson handed me my trophy/plaque. It depends on what you want to get out of shooting. Are you there for entertainment/socializing? Or are you looking to get better?
bmyers Posted November 2, 2013 at 12:33 PM Posted November 2, 2013 at 12:33 PM I shoot my Glock 26 most of the time and I have shot my M&P Shield and M&P Compact. I shoot the guns that I carry. Do I finish in first place? Nope. Do I have fun? YES! Have my skills got better? Yes, I have gone from last to I finish in the middle of the pack in the SSP even though I'm using small guns competing against guys with full size guns. Yet, this has allowed me to learn what I am and am not able to do with my little guns. Plus, our club is very social and I have met some nice people, made some new friends, and is a relaxing way to spend some time at the range.
cm.stites Posted November 2, 2013 at 01:40 PM Author Posted November 2, 2013 at 01:40 PM Speaking as one of the match directors sctman800's visited on the Hoosier side, he speaks the big truth.And, there's few IDPAers more welcome on any range I'm on- that attitude is as good as it gets. Now, a point I make in a lot of our classes is that going to an IDPA (or USPSA) match isn't so much about competition or winning, even though many of us are wired that way.It's about high-quality trigger time: using the holster, getting the draw right, moving, finding solutions, thinking while the gun's firing, and just plain using the basic handgun skills you could never, ever use in a public, commercial range.If you're going to carry in real life, there is little you could do for less than a thousand bucks that would make you better, more competent, and more confident and keep up your proficiency than monthly or weekly action pistol shooting.www.idpa.comwww.uspsa.orgI like them both, and run programs in both. Keep an open mind, learn something, and have fun. there are a few options that cost less then a thousand that you can actually get paid to do it is all about having fun though and trying new things.
cm.stites Posted November 2, 2013 at 01:41 PM Author Posted November 2, 2013 at 01:41 PM If you are really interested in shooting better or improving, time at aMatch is wasted. You'll do 3 to 4 hours of standing around for maybe a minute to two minutes worth of shooting. And if you end up really liking the game, you too could invest over 13 hours (5 driving, 8 shooting) going to a major match for 3 minutes of shooting (after penalties). Horribly inefficient, but fun!I forgot all about you competing in idpa even though thats what you were getting that frame for haha.....
illinisnare Posted November 3, 2013 at 03:42 AM Posted November 3, 2013 at 03:42 AM If you are really interested in shooting better or improving, time at aMatch is wasted. You'll do 3 to 4 hours of standing around for maybe a minute to two minutes worth of shooting. And if you end up really liking the game, you too could invest over 13 hours (5 driving, 8 shooting) going to a major match for 3 minutes of shooting (after penalties). Horribly inefficient, but fun!I forgot all about you competing in idpa even though thats what you were getting that frame for haha..... Got that frame for fun and haven't even shot it yet! I think it would be ESP legal but haven't even considered. I shoot a G34 or G17 in SSP.
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