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Front Sight Training Institute- Membership scam?


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#1 junglebob

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 05:12 PM

I got a call, a recording offering a 2 for 1 lifetime membership at Front Sight Training Institute. Lifetime membership for less than the cost of a single course. I also noticed in the issue of Guns Save Life that they are going into bankruptcy. So it looks like you pay your lifetime membership fee but may never be able to take a course. There site says no refunds, so if they close their doors you are out of your money. I hope this isn't going to be the case, but I fear that it is.
Disarming the people (is) the best and most effectual way to enslave them. George Mason

Remember the 1991 Luby Cafeteria Massacre of the Unarmed (Kileen, Texas before Texas Concealed Carry) Do we need 23 people to die in a similar incident before we're allowed effective self defense?

Three school masacres have been stopped by civilians with firearms. Two with handguns and the third by a guy with a shotgun. (Pearl, Ms; Appalacian School of Law; Edinboro,Pa)

#2 Silver Guardian

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 05:21 PM

That's what credit cards are for. I paid for a Front Sight course once, then encountered a problem. I got the charge wiped out.
"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression." Thomas Paine

#3 panzermk2

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 08:55 PM

That place is a total scam. Piazza is a complete scam artist. Piazza started life as a real state scam artist. Piazza ended up with a big chunk of land he was going to build townhouses on. That deal fell through so He plagiarized seal manuals, Jeff Cooper, and half a dozen other writers all claiming the writings as his own.

His pyramid scheme is falling down around him. Front Sight is in full chapter 11.



אני חרב משפחתי,
ומגן עמי,
אם ישלחוני - אמחץ כל דבר שבניתם,
אשרוף את כל אהבותיכם,
ואהרוג כל אחד ואחד מכם



I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.




http://www.eliteammunition.com

#4 Don Gwinn

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 11:30 PM

RUN, don't walk!

The people who paid millions for land from Dr. Pizza not only got no houses, no streets, no water, no sewer, no electric, no gates, no pool, no range, no town . . . . but their deeds were structured in such a way that they lost the land, too, without getting any money back . . . because the town was not built. He sold them worthless desert land for millions, sat on their money, and collected the land back as a reward for failing to live up to the deal.

The people who paid for his multi-level memberships sued him as a class, won a judgment for millions, and he stopped making payments, formed a new holding company, and sold all Front Sight's assets to the new company . . . .which he claimed was not bound by the judgment. That's why Front Sight is in receivership now--the judge got sick of Dr. Pizza flouting the judgment and bragging about it in his newsletters.

Several years ago, Diane Hsieh made allegations that people who took courses at Front Sight were being pitched a life of Scientology during classes. To my mind, it's never been settled whether that was the case or not. In any case, Dr. Pizza threatened to sue and shut down any gun forum that allowed its members to discuss the allegations. Glocktalk removed all references to Front Sight and all references to Scientology whether they were related or not, because Eric was sure he would be sued out of existence. The Firing Line removed nothing, and Rich replied to the cease-and-desist letter with the mailing address for his attorney and the simple message: "If you decide to sue, please serve the paperwork promptly at this address." Of course, there was no suit. The thing is, Rich can get away with that because he has the money and the Sicilian anger issues to get sued by a Scientologist con man and come out with more ears than he went in with.

In short, do not get involved with Dr. Pizza. He's up to something.


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#5 2nd amendment forever

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 05:29 AM

http://illinoiscarry...s...ic=16258

#6 junglebob

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 06:30 AM

http://illinoiscarry...s...ic=16258

I didn't see that post about them going into receivership. Hope there was nobody here that got stung by his scam. Lifetime membership for less than the cost of a single course did sound too good to be true, and this proves it was.

I'm glad to hear that the Firing Line Forum stood up to him.
Disarming the people (is) the best and most effectual way to enslave them. George Mason

Remember the 1991 Luby Cafeteria Massacre of the Unarmed (Kileen, Texas before Texas Concealed Carry) Do we need 23 people to die in a similar incident before we're allowed effective self defense?

Three school masacres have been stopped by civilians with firearms. Two with handguns and the third by a guy with a shotgun. (Pearl, Ms; Appalacian School of Law; Edinboro,Pa)

#7 FST_Kent

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 07:51 AM

Used to be a fan, but removed myself from their mailing list months ago.

#8 Federal Farmer

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 08:01 AM

Used to be a fan, but removed myself from their mailing list months ago.


I still get it. I want to find out how many 'last chance' offers I'll receive.

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men [and women] stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

--George Orwell

-- Certified something-or-other by various organizations and governmental entities.

#9 gd ol boy

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 08:55 AM

I've been getting last chance offers for about a year now, I don't think they will ever stop coming.Everything I've read on the training sounds good, does anyone know of some similar training a little closer to central IL. ??

#10 Pecker

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 10:01 AM

I've been getting last chance offers for about a year now, I don't think they will ever stop coming.Everything I've read on the training sounds good, does anyone know of some similar training a little closer to central IL. ??


Blackwater does some good training in Mt. Carroll, IL. I haven't been to any of the training but my brother has trained with them.
If guns cause crime, mine are defective!

#11 Silver Guardian

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 10:03 AM

I've been getting last chance offers for about a year now, I don't think they will ever stop coming.Everything I've read on the training sounds good, does anyone know of some similar training a little closer to central IL. ??


Blackwater does some good training in Mt. Carroll, IL. I haven't been to any of the training but my brother has trained with them.


I'll be there next week. Hopefully I'll have the energy to write a full review.
"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression." Thomas Paine

#12 panzermk2

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 12:00 PM

If you want training go to Gunsite or Thunder Ranch.



אני חרב משפחתי,
ומגן עמי,
אם ישלחוני - אמחץ כל דבר שבניתם,
אשרוף את כל אהבותיכם,
ואהרוג כל אחד ואחד מכם



I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.




http://www.eliteammunition.com

#13 Chris

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 12:15 PM

I've been getting last chance offers for about a year now, I don't think they will ever stop coming.Everything I've read on the training sounds good, does anyone know of some similar training a little closer to central IL. ??


I've done training with Team Spartan and I am a fan of theirs: http://www.teamspartan.com/
Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could only do a little.
- Edmund Burke

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

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#14 Don Gwinn

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 01:36 PM

Midwest Training Group puts on a lot of good courses in Bloomington.

http://illinoiscarry...p?showtopic=173


________________________________________________________________________________

Illinois Gun Owners' Lobbying Day

March 5, 2014

Be there or everyone will see that you have four equal sides and four 90-degree angles!

________________________________________________________________________________


#15 Chris

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 01:41 PM

Midwest Training Group puts on a lot of good courses in Bloomington.

http://illinoiscarry...p?showtopic=173


Thumbs up to them from me as well, I took a classroom class with them.
Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could only do a little.
- Edmund Burke

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

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#16 Glock21

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 03:15 PM

Aside from the many schools already mentioned (excluding FS/Piazza), there are a number of great instructors who travel and make there way into the Midwest just about every year. A short list would be:

Louis Awerbuck www.yfainc.com
John and Vicki Farnam www.defense-training.com
Pat Rogers http://www.eagtactical.com/
Dave Spaulding http://davespaulding.com/
Massad Ayoob www.ayoob.com


Sheriff Ken Cambell, of Boone Co., IN, also brings in many of the above mentioned trainers during the year, and his range is close enought to drive to for all in Illinois. http://boonecounty.i....aspx?tabid=257

And the Sand Burr Gun Ranch in Rochester, IN, also has courses from many of these instructors.
http://www.sandburrg...ic/default.aspx

I've been to about all of them, and then some, and I have my favorites. But, what's right for me may not be right for you - so, the important thing is that one gets training. Serious training that focuses on gunfighting, not poking cute little holes in paper. And all that have been mentioned here can provide that for you! :thumbsup:

"The mind must be wide open in order to function freely in thought. For a limited mind cannot think freely." -Bruce Lee


Fortress Defense: State of the Art firearms training for citizen, soldier and peace officer.

http://www.fortressdefense.com
frank@fortressdefense.com
708-522-8060

Twitter: twitter.com/FortressDC1



#17 templar223

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 06:27 PM

Midwest Training Group puts on a lot of good courses in Bloomington.

http://illinoiscarry...p?showtopic=173


Thumbs up to them from me as well, I took a classroom class with them.



+1 also for full classwork.

Farnam has good classes too not far away.

John

ETA: YOU DON'T have to travel halfway across the country to get good training around here!
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#18 CarrieKashusli

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 01:48 PM

I got a call, a recording offering a 2 for 1 lifetime membership at Front Sight Training Institute...


Now, 19 months later, Frontsight is still in business, still delivering classes and still selling memberships. Seems okay to me. I guess any company could hit hard times--especially during these econo-disastrous years--but I don't see a reason to worry about this one more than others. I'm more worried about who will honor my extended warranties!

#19 ericg

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 05:25 PM

I attended Front Sights 4 day defensive handgun course last year. I couldn't wait to purchase a lifetime membership. The training is second to none. The instructors are not only professional, polite and friendly, they will will teach you to be a safe and accurate shooter. Yes, when you give them your email address you will get 100's of emails but its no scam. By becoming a lifetime member I am able to attend any course they offer for FREE for the rest of my life. I paid $500 for my membership and Im leaving this week to attend a course this week end. .
Those who claim its a scam have never been there, that I can guarantee.

#20 Don Gwinn

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 06:12 PM

Uh huh. Good to hear from you, Eric. I'm sure you'll stick around and we'll get to know you well as time goes on. But with all due respect, "those who claim it's a scam," broadly speaking, include the plaintiffs who sued Piazza for defrauding them, the jury that decided against him and the judge who had to spend years jumping through hoops just trying to get Piazza to pay the judgment against him and Front Sight.
If you trust him, that's your prerogative. It's your time and money. I won't risk either on him.

There may be good classes at Front Sight--as you say, I haven't been there--but the business itself has well-earned reputation for dishonesty and fraud. Moreover, while it may be offering good instruction, it's not offering instruction significantly better than Farnham, Awerbuck, Ayoob . . . and those people are willing to travel into Illinois to provide that training.
My next class will probably be a basic pistol refresher at Darnalls in Bloomington, followed by Massad Ayoob group's MAG40 through either Midwest Training Group or Lawson Handgun Instruction (our own Colleen Lawson hosting Ayoob classes around Chicago, along with her colleague David Maglio, who impresses me as a stand-up guy happy to help a complete stranger.) Front Sight has nothing better than that to offer me.


________________________________________________________________________________

Illinois Gun Owners' Lobbying Day

March 5, 2014

Be there or everyone will see that you have four equal sides and four 90-degree angles!

________________________________________________________________________________


#21 ERS113

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:36 AM

I took the 4 day defensive handgun course at Frontsight 2 years ago. It was a very good basic training course. I had a great time even in rainy 36 degree desert weather as did everyone else in my group. It is true that you receive continuous last chance spectacular offers on a continual basis. But i delete those eithout even reading them. They are in business to make money and that seems to be their marketing strategy. I don't really care as long as they still provide a variety of courses with good instructors. I am planning on another course later this year. The family stays and plays in Las Vegas and I drive to Pahrump through the mountains and watch the sun rise.Its about a 30-45min drive.

#22 Uncle Harley

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:06 AM

I find it odd that not one but TWO people have decided this post to be their first post on this site, Something smells fishy and this cat aint eatin it.
"A river cuts through a rock not because of its power but its persistence." - Jim Watkins

#23 Talonap

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:38 PM

I find it odd that not one but TWO people have decided this post to be their first post on this site, Something smells fishy and this cat aint eatin it.


I was just thinking the same thing.... :cool:

#24 junglebob

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:52 PM

Well since I started the topic, I'll say that I had a friend who went with his wife and son-in-law I believe. He was very happy with the training and recommended it to me. It seems like their financial problems may be over so maybe I might go there sometime if scheduling is right and I'm traveling out west.
Disarming the people (is) the best and most effectual way to enslave them. George Mason

Remember the 1991 Luby Cafeteria Massacre of the Unarmed (Kileen, Texas before Texas Concealed Carry) Do we need 23 people to die in a similar incident before we're allowed effective self defense?

Three school masacres have been stopped by civilians with firearms. Two with handguns and the third by a guy with a shotgun. (Pearl, Ms; Appalacian School of Law; Edinboro,Pa)

#25 Jeckler

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:06 AM

This isn't my first post, and it's not the first time I've commented on Front Sight. I have a membership. I've taken a class. I've even upgraded my membership. I plan to take more classes.

I enjoyed the training. It was top notch.

Lots of good facilities and companies right here in Illinois. I'm not knocking any of them.

I will be taking more Front Sight classes. I was pleased and feel I got my monies worth.

With all that said, I have an extra membership available/transferable. Send me a PM and Id be happy to explain.

#26 junglebob

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 07:12 AM

One thing that has influenced my opinion of Front Site is their marketing tactics. I bet I've gotten over 100 automated calls from them about membership. If you push the button they say on your phone to be removed from their list it makes no difference, you still get another call a day or so later and then a few days after that. Hasn't happened much lately, maybe they were in desperate financial straits at the time.
Disarming the people (is) the best and most effectual way to enslave them. George Mason

Remember the 1991 Luby Cafeteria Massacre of the Unarmed (Kileen, Texas before Texas Concealed Carry) Do we need 23 people to die in a similar incident before we're allowed effective self defense?

Three school masacres have been stopped by civilians with firearms. Two with handguns and the third by a guy with a shotgun. (Pearl, Ms; Appalacian School of Law; Edinboro,Pa)