* The Case definition topic: center console/glove box *

[Mrr3000gt]

* Warning: I am no lawyer *

 

I know this one has been speculated on based on that Peoria case, but it would seem you are 'safe' from a CCW violation as a CCL holder as it is "on or about your person" and in your immediate control. It would appear that CCL holder can then use it as a storage place before exiting the car if need be with this 'ruling'.

 

 

So, if I understand why this is an issue: this definition affects non-CCL FOID card holders. And the definition is not in state law - just a court interpretation of the law in Peoria county.

 

And if I still understand: the court definition was in response to a CCW-violation charge of some guy in Peoria and with the center console/glove box as being "Cases" that negated the CCW violation he was to be charged with.

 

But for a non-CCL FOID holder I cannot see how you are not then opened up for a misuse of firearms (or similar) charge for transportation of a firearm 'readily accessible to a person'. That accessibility would still be the same as if it was in its normal case (unloaded of course) and then the center console/glove box does not matter. But the FOID holder would not likely be a CCW violator.

 

I hate to even throw this out there but is a center console/glove box a legal place to avoid any trouble for a non-CCL FOID holder and is it a legal place to avoid any trouble for a CCL holder??

 

LEOs and Lawyers are encouraged to chime in (the rest of us should read and listed)

 

[gangrel]

( b ) Notwithstanding subsections (a), (a-5), and (a-10) of this Section except under paragraph (22) or (23) of subsection (a), any licensee prohibited from carrying a concealed firearm into the parking area of a prohibited location specified in subsection (a), (a-5), or (a-10) of this Section shall be permitted to carry a concealed firearm on or about his or her person within a vehicle into the parking area and may store a firearm or ammunition concealed in a case within a locked vehicle or locked container out of plain view within the vehicle in the parking area. A licensee may carry a concealed firearm in the immediate area surrounding his or her vehicle within a prohibited parking lot area only for the limited purpose of storing or retrieving a firearm within the vehicle's trunk. For purposes of this subsection, "case" includes a glove compartment or console that completely encloses the concealed firearm or ammunition, the trunk of the vehicle, or a firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container.

There you have it in black and white when it comes to CCL holders. If you're parked and using the parking lot exemption, center console and glove compartment are expressly permitted by law. As you mention above, if you are driving, either would constitute "on or about your person in a vehicle".

 

As for FOID holders, I am pretty sure you still have to rely on case law. It's been established for a while that center console is ok (unloaded), I don't know of glove compartment ever being definitively decided for this purpose.

[lockman]

A glove box would be no different than a center console in function. It would meet any definition that the center console would meet. Other than the specific name it is being called by. My center console is a usb charging hub, that compartment by the passenger front is a flashlight, aspirin and dental floss box, never had gloves.

[mauserme]

I don't think there currently is an issue for FOID card holders. There was, before transportation of a firearm was preempted and local ordinance could prevail, but that changed at the same time the FCCA was passed.

The case I think you're referring to, though, is probably People v Diggins. That was decided in 2009, well before Illinois had concealed carry. Mr. Diggins did have a FOID card but, obviously, no FCCL.


The exemption in UUW applies to firearms that are either:

(i) are broken down in a non-functioning state; or
(ii) are not immediately accessible; or
(iii) are unloaded and enclosed in a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card; or
(iv) are carried or possessed in accordance with the Firearm Concealed Carry Act by a person who has been issued a currently valid license under the Firearm Concealed Carry Act...

Only one of the 4 criteria needs to be satisfied. Do note that the law does not state the firearm must be contained exclusively within some sort of undefined "case". It states that it must be within a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container.

[Blackbeard]

I think you're conflating CCW and transportation rules. If you are not CCW licensed, you can only transport, and one of the legal ways to transport is if it is unloaded and enclosed in a case. The Peoria ruling determined that a console meets the requirements of a case.

 

This all has nothing to do with CCW because there is no CCW requirement that the weapon be cased.

[soylentgreen]

I think you're conflating CCW and transportation rules. If you are not CCW licensed, you can only transport, and one of the legal ways to transport is if it is unloaded and enclosed in a case. The Peoria ruling determined that a console meets the requirements of a case.

 

This all has nothing to do with CCW because there is no CCW requirement that the weapon be cased.

 

Exactly. And, just be aware that if you're a FOID holder, that the case law does not expressly name a glove box as an appropriate container. Although I agree it makes total sense that if a center console is good, a glove box would be good. Just know that you might still be arrested and have to argue this in court if you go that way.

 

The other thing to think about...even if it is a case, you must transfer the weapon to another case if you plan to remove it from the car (presuming you're not on your own property). I honestly don't see the point of carrying an unloaded gun in a glove box. Just go get a CCL and carry loaded on your person or somewhere with quicker access.

[mauserme]

While it's true that the Diggins court didn't include a glove compartment in its decision, in the process of analyzing a center console's status as it relates to 24 1.6( c )(iii), the Court established the method by which all cases, boxes, and containers should be judged.

 

In the Court's words:

 

...

Because the term case, used in section 24 1.6( c )(iii), is not

defined, we assume the legislature intended the term to have its

ordinary and popularly understood meaning. People v. Ward, 215 Ill.

2d 317, 325 (2005). The plain and ordinary definition of case is: a

box or receptacle to contain or hold something (as for carrying,

shipping, or safekeeping). Websters Third New International

Dictionary 346 (1993). Examples given in the dictionary included a

silver cigarette [case], 12 bottles in a [case], and a display [case]

in a meat market. A box is defined as: a rigid typically rectangular

receptacle often with a lid or cover in which something nonliquid is

kept or carried (Websters Third New International Dictionary 263

(1993)) and a receptacle is defined as something that receives and

contains something (Websters Third New International Dictionary

1894 (1993)).

 

...

 

Unpersuaded by the States arguments, we conclude that the

legislature used the broad general term case unmodified. Giving the

word case its plain and ordinary meaning, as we must, permits but

one conclusion: the term case in section 24 1.6( c )(iii) includes any

portable or nonportable receptacle and need not be interpreted only in

reference to firearms.

 

 

Based on the foregoing, we find, in the case at bar, that the center

console of a vehicle falls within the ordinary definition of case.

...

[tseeker]

I recall my ccl instructor (who is also a local leo) opening a three ring binder, placing his unloaded handgun and a loaded magazine into it, closing the binder,...And explaining that by his interpretation of the law, this would be a legal way to transport a firearm.

 

However...It should also be noted that I live in an extremely pro gun county...And while it might be considered acceptable here...I don't think it would prudent to drive through other parts of the state, with that setup

 

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