SmershAgent Posted October 4, 2007 at 03:30 AM Posted October 4, 2007 at 03:30 AM ISRA Alert:State Police Proposal Would Abolish Youth Hunting/Shooting/Gun Safety Programs A proposal submitted by the Illinois State Police (ISP) to the Joint Committee on Administrative Rules (JCAR) would effectively eliminate participation in shooting activities by anyone under 10 years of age. The proposal, which would establish minimum age requirements for obtaining an Illinois Firearm Owner’s Identification Card (FOID), comes in the wake of an irresponsibly biased feature article that had appeared in a south suburban newspaper. In the article, the feature writer spun a near-satirical yarn about how easily his newborn son, ‘Bubba’ was able to obtain a FOID. Reaction to the article amongst anti-gun/anti-hunting forces was predictably hysterical. In response, Gov. Blagojevich’s State Police issued a proposed change in the law which would set 10 years of age as the minimum age at which one could obtain a FOID. To become effective, the ISP’s age-limit proposal must be approved by JCAR - an administrative body responsible for establishing regulations and implementing guidance for statutes signed into law by the governor. Prior to considering proposed regulations, JCAR must observe a 45-day public comment period during which citizens may submit their views on the proposal, in writing, to JCAR. Of course, the ISRA is adamantly opposed to the ISP’s FOID age-limit proposal. More specifically, the ISRA seeks rejection of the proposal for the following reasons: 1. There is no practical purpose for establishing a minimum age-limit for FOID cards. The ISP, and others, claim that setting a minimum age for acquiring a FOID would reduce violent crime and firearm accidents. Yet, the fact of the matter is, nobody under the age of 18, FOID or no FOID, can purchase a firearm in Illinois. Furthermore, nobody under the age of 21 may purchase a handgun in Illinois. On the matter of firearm safety, childhood deaths from accidental firearm discharge are at historical lows - a phenomenon resulting in large part to youth firearm training classes put on by the NRA and sportsmen’s clubs. The ISP proposal could actually increase the likelihood of accidental childhood firearm deaths by prohibiting meaningful firearm training of children during life stages where it will do the most good. 2. The proposal materially alters the spirit and legislative intent of the state’s safe firearms storage laws. By prohibiting FOID issuance to children under 10, millions of low-risk households would be forced to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to bring their homes into compliance with safe storage laws. At the same time, high-risk households would be unaffected due to ignorance of safe firearm handling procedures and contempt for laws already in force. 3. The proposal denies parents the right to choose when and how their children become involved in hunting and the shooting sports. 4. The proposal would severely damage the state’s hunting heritage by delaying the entry of successive generations into the sport. ISRA members are encouraged strongly to submit comments on the proposal to the address below. NOTE: It is very important that you remain polite and respectful when submitting your comments to JCAR about the proposed regulations. Speak strictly to the facts presented above. JCAR is only interested in the matter at hand - whether the minimum age for obtaining a FOID should be set at 10 years of age. Getting off message will not help our cause. Please send comments on your opposition to this change by October 25, 2007, in writing, to: Mr. John M. Hosteny Interim Chief Legal Counsel Illinois State Police 801 South 7th Street, Suite 1000-S Post Office Box 19461 Springfield, Illinois 62794-9461
Nerd Posted October 4, 2007 at 07:36 AM Posted October 4, 2007 at 07:36 AM I do not have the FOID statutes in front of me. I have a few questions which would be relevant, I believe, in formulating a response to the proposal. 1) Is there not already an exemption for a non-FOID holder to still possess and use a firearm if he is under the direct supervision of a FOID-holding family member? If so, would not the only thing the new provision prevent be the right of a person under 10 years old to own or operate firearms unsupervised? 2) Is a FOID card currently required to own or operate a BB or pellet gun? 3) I do not quite understand the effect the proposed provision would have on the safe storage laws. Is there a current exemption in the law that a firearm does not have to be secure from access to a juvenile if the juvenile has a FOID? Please do not extrapolate from these questions the perception that I am not firmly against the new provision. I am opposed to laws which incrementally limit the legitimate use of firearms as well as to laws enacted merely because they they are a knee-jerk feel-good reaction to a non-existent problem. I simply want to make sure that I have the facts straight before I open my mouth or my keyboard. Thanks.
ishmo Posted October 4, 2007 at 09:51 AM Posted October 4, 2007 at 09:51 AM I am opposed to laws which incrementally limit the legitimate use of firearms as well as to laws enacted merely because they they are a knee-jerk feel-good reaction to a non-existent problem.You're right on the money with this Nerd, it's a typical liberal, anti gun reaction to a non existent problem.
Blaster Posted October 4, 2007 at 11:14 AM Posted October 4, 2007 at 11:14 AM From ISP FAQ Will I be held responsible for my child who has access to a firearm?Yes. Illinois law (720 ILCS 5/24-9) states "(a) Except as provided in subsection ©, it is unlawful for any person to store or leave, within premises under his or her control, a firearm if the person knows or has reason to believe that a minor under the age of 14 years who does not have a Firearm Owners Identification Card is likely to gain access to the firearm without the lawful permission of the minor's parent, guardian, or person having charge of the minor, and the minor causes death or great bodily harm with the firearm, unless the firearm is: (1) secured by a device or mechanism, other than the firearm safety, designed to render a firearm temporarily inoperable; or (2) placed in a securely locked box or container; or (3) placed in some other location that a reasonable person would believe to be secure from a minor under the age of 14 years.(:Crying. =-(: Sentence. A person who violates this Section is guilty of a Class C misdemeanor and shall be fined not less than $1,000. A second or subsequent violation of this Section is a Class A misdemeanor.© Subsection (a) does not apply: (1) if the minor under 14 years of age gains access to a firearm and uses it in a lawful act of self-defense or defense of another; or (2) to any firearm obtained by a minor under the age of 14 because of an unlawful entry of the premises by the minor or another person." What is the definition of a firearm according to the FOID Act?"Firearm" means any device, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding however:(1) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun or B-B gun which either expels a single globular projectile not exceeding .18 inch in diameter and which has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second or breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors;(2) any device used exclusively for signalling or safety and required or recommended by the United States Coast Guard or the Interstate Commerce Commission;(3) any device used exclusively for the firing of stud cartridges, explosive rivets or similar industrial ammunition; and(4) an antique firearm (other than a machine-gun) which, although designed as a weapon, the Department of State Police finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon.
Pappy353 Posted October 4, 2007 at 11:30 AM Posted October 4, 2007 at 11:30 AM Where is the "I TOLD YOU THIS WOULD HAPPEN" smiley? :Crying. =-(:
RichardM Posted October 4, 2007 at 12:48 PM Posted October 4, 2007 at 12:48 PM If my hypothetical wife and child are in a car and do not have an FOID card and are stopped and I just happened to have a round of ammunition left in the car. Couldn't they both be charged for not having an FOID card and in possesion of ammunition?
45superman Posted October 4, 2007 at 01:03 PM Posted October 4, 2007 at 01:03 PM Is there a current exemption in the law that a firearm does not have to be secure from access to a juvenile if the juvenile has a FOID?It is my understanding that this is, indeed, the case. If my hypothetical wife and child are in a car and do not have an FOID card and are stopped and I just happened to have a round of ammunition left in the car. Couldn't they both be charged for not having an FOID card and in possesion of ammunition?Again, this is only my (possibly incorrect) understanding, but I believe that is the case (well, I imagine that only the wife would be charged--not the minor child). Supposedly, there's a bit of wiggle room, depending on whether or not it's determined that the presence of that round of ammo is "deliberate," but does anyone want to trust the Illinois "justice" system to make that determination? I thought not.
RichardM Posted October 4, 2007 at 01:43 PM Posted October 4, 2007 at 01:43 PM Is their and age limit on who can be charged with a FOID violation? what if a 9 year old gang banger uses a gun without an FOID card would he be charged?
Smokewagon Posted October 4, 2007 at 01:55 PM Posted October 4, 2007 at 01:55 PM If my hypothetical wife and child are in a car and do not have an FOID card and are stopped and I just happened to have a round of ammunition left in the car. Couldn't they both be charged for not having an FOID card and in possesion of ammunition? Now that sounds like something that would happen to you in Old Mexico, and I think it has. Is it true that you have to have a FOID to use a range in Illinois?
dorvinion Posted October 4, 2007 at 02:09 PM Posted October 4, 2007 at 02:09 PM 3) I do not quite understand the effect the proposed provision would have on the safe storage laws. Is there a current exemption in the law that a firearm does not have to be secure from access to a juvenile if the juvenile has a FOID? It does.At present, if you have a minor under age 14 and under in a house, the firearm must be stored in a secure manner, unless the minor has a FOID. Is it true that you have to have a FOID to use a range in Illinois? For a resident to rent a firearm, a FOID is required (presumably because the state would consider it a transfer)Simply to shoot doesn't, of course you do so at your own risk when transporting.
anonymous too Posted October 4, 2007 at 02:26 PM Posted October 4, 2007 at 02:26 PM 9-21-07 Flinn Report.http://www.ilga.gov/commission/jcar/flinn/reg38.pdf FIREARM ID CARDSThe DEPARTMENT OF STATE POLICEproposed an amendment to rulestitled "Firearm Owner's IdentificationCard Act" (20 Ill Adm Code 1230; 31 IllReg 13346) setting the minimum ageof application for a card at 10 yearsold. DSP is setting its policy in tunewith Department of Natural Resourcespolicy; its minimum age for huntingprograms for youth is the same. Questions/requests for copies/commentsthrough 11/5/07: John M.Hosteny, ISP, 801 S. Seventh St., Ste.1000-S, Springfield IL 62794-9461, 217/782-7658. JCAR Committeehttp://www.ilga.gov/commission/jcar/member.pdf MEMBERS OF THE JOINT COMMITTEE ON ADMINISTRATIVE RULESCO-CHAIRMANSENATOR MAGGIE CROTTY5119 W. 159th Street 122 State House1st Floor East Springfield IL 62706Oak Forest IL 60452 217/782-9595708/687-9696D-19CO-CHAIRMANREPRESENTATIVE BRENT HASSERT1408 Joliet Rd. Ste 102 217-N Stratton Bldg.Romeoville IL 60446 Springfield IL 62706630/739-7063 217/782-4179R-83SENATOR J. BRADLEY BURZYNSKI505 DeKalb Ave 103D Mezzanine State HouseSycamore IL 60178 Springfield IL 62706815/895-6318 217/782-1977R-35SENATOR JAMES F. CLAYBORNE JR.327 Missouri Ave 629 State House1st IL Bank Bldg., Rm 422 Springfield IL 62706East St. Louis IL 62201 217/782-5399618/875-1212D-57SENATOR RANDALL M. HULTGREN1725 S. Naperville Road, Ste. 200 M103A –State HouseWheaton IL 60187 Springfield IL 62706630/682-8100 217/782-8022R-45SENATOR DAN RUTHERFORD320 N Plum St 105B State HousePontiac IL 61764 Springfield IL 62706815/842-3632 217/782-6597R-53SENATOR IRA SILVERSTEIN2951 W. Devon 121B State HouseChicago IL 60659 Springfield IL 62706773/743-5015 217/782-5500D-8REPRESENTATIVE JOHN FRITCHEY2539 N. Southport Ave. 200-7S Stratton Bldg.Chicago IL 60614 Springfield IL 62706773/871-4000 217/782-2458D-11REPRESENTATIVE LOUIS I. LANG4528 W. Oakton Street 109 State HouseSkokie IL 60076 Springfield IL 62706847/673-1131 217/782-1252D-16REPRESENTATIVE DAVID R. LEITCH5407 N. University Street 220 State HouseArbor Hall, Ste. B Springfield IL 62706Peoria IL 61614 217/782-8108309/690-7373R-73REPRESENTATIVE DAVID E. MILLER1350 E. Sibley Blvd., Ste. 202 278-S Stratton Bldg.Dolton, IL 60419 Springfield IL 62706708/201-8000 217/782-8087D-29REPRESENTATIVE ROSEMARY MULLIGAN932 Lee St., Ste. 201 218-N Stratton Bldg.Des Plaines IL 60016 Springfield IL 62706847/297-6533 217/782-8007R-65
anonymous too Posted October 4, 2007 at 05:56 PM Posted October 4, 2007 at 05:56 PM The DNR does not say you must be 10 yrs old for every youth season. The ISP is not being entirely truthful. Imagine that! The following quotes are from the 2007 IL Hunting Digest.http://dnr.state.il.us/admin/systems/Digest/Digest.pdf Quote from Acting Director's message. The bold would conflict with an all out age limit on hunting and shooting. Illinois has a great tradition as an outstanding place to enjoy outdoor recreation opportunities, including hunting and trapping. We take pride in our ongoing efforts to expand hunting opportunities and to make it more convenient for hunters and trappers to participate. YOUTH DEER HUNTING SEASON INFORMATIONAntlerless only youth deer hunt, Oct. 6-7,2007. $10 fee. Youths must be less than 16years old on Oct. 7, 2007. Youth must beaccompanied by adult. Application dates andopen counties will be publicly announced. Similar, but on DNR property. Youth Deer Hunt: Lake Le-Aqua-Na State Park,Fort Massac and Crab Orchard NWR (Nov 16-18,2007) permit required; Dixon Springs State Park(Nov. 16-18 & Nov. 29 - Dec. 2, 2007) permitrequired; hunters 15 years of age or younger;apply using statewide application. Here's the youth deer permit application too.http://dnr.state.il.us/admin/systems/Deer/IL1013B.pdf Or this one. SPRING YOUTH WILD TURKEYHUNTING SEASON INFORMATIONDuring this season, youths 15 years of age oryounger accompanied by an adult may hunt. Allcounties open to hunting during the regularspring season are also open for the youth season.Application dates will be publiclyannounced. None here either. Additional Youth Controlled Pheasant Hunts•Information about controlled pheasant hunting permit reservationsis available on the Department’s Website at:http://dnr.state.il.us/•Hunters under 16 hunt for free, but each young hunter mustbe accompanied by an adult hunter. Adult hunters must paythe $15 permit fee. Here's one, but on DNR property. Illinois Youth Controlled Pheasant HuntsHunters ages 10-15•Information about controlled pheasant hunting permit reservationsis available on the Department’s Website at:http://dnr.state.il.us/•Each hunter must be accompanied by a non-hunting supervisingadult who must wear blaze orange.•Hunters or supervising adult must And another. Youth Dove Hunt: Sept. 1, 2007 - Ramsey LakeState Park(*), Horseshoe Lake State Park**(Madison County), Mackinaw River State Fish &Wildlife Area(*)**, Silver Springs State Park,Kankakee River State Park(*)**, Sangchris LakeState Park(*)**, Mt. Vernon Game PropagationCenter(*)**, Stephen A. Forbes State Park andSam Parr State Park(*) and Lake Shelbyville (*).(*) sites that allow both youth and supervisor to hunt.**Requires non-toxic shot.Permit required; hunters 10-15 years old; check in10 a.m. - 11 a.m.; no standbys available; huntersmust be accompanied by supervising adult; hunteror supervising adult must possess One more. Youth Waterfowl Hunt: Donnelley State Fishand Wildlife Management Area, Banner MarshState Fish and Wildlife Area and Snakeden HollowState Fish and Wildlife Area - Nov. 11, 2007. Also,on the first weekend and third Saturday of theIllinois Central Zone Waterfowl season atDonnelley State Wildlife Area.Free permit required: Hunters 10-15 years old;hunters must be accompanied by supervisingadult; hunter or supervising adult must possess aFirearm Owner’s Identification Card; supervisingadult may hunt. Quote from the 2007 IL Waterfowl Digesthttp://www.dnr.state.il.us/admin/systems/w...fowl_digest.pdf Youth Waterfowl Hunting Day Regulations1. Youth hunters must be 15 years of age or younger and must have a hunting license and HIP registration/certification unless hunting on property where they reside. No stamps are required for youths under 16.2. Only geese, ducks, mergansers and coots may be taken in addition to other game in season.3. An adult at least 18 years of age must accompany the youth hunter into the field. This adult cannot huntgeese, ducks, coots or mergansers but can participate in other open seasons.
RichardM Posted October 4, 2007 at 07:22 PM Posted October 4, 2007 at 07:22 PM since when is the FOID card about hunting anyways?
45superman Posted October 4, 2007 at 09:42 PM Posted October 4, 2007 at 09:42 PM I would love to see what the people who want to deny FOID cards to kids would think about this idea. It might just put some of them off their feed .
anonymous too Posted October 4, 2007 at 10:05 PM Posted October 4, 2007 at 10:05 PM since when is the FOID card about hunting anyways? I understand where you're coming from. It's not about hunting, it's about possession of firearms or ammunition in IL. There are no age restrictions during any of the regular seasons. And there are only a few youth hunt age restrictions. The youth hunts are very few and limited in length. The ISP is reaching on this one. Being a bit misleading too.
Kipp Jones Posted October 5, 2007 at 04:48 AM Posted October 5, 2007 at 04:48 AM If they try to do this, I am taking them to court. My 3 year old just received her FOID and she will sue.
anonymous too Posted October 5, 2007 at 05:50 AM Posted October 5, 2007 at 05:50 AM If they try to do this, I am taking them to court. My 3 year old just received her FOID and she will sue. I see no grandfather conditions. She would be ineligible to renew her FOID. Ooooooooh........Do I smell a class action lawsuit if this becomes law?
anonymous too Posted October 5, 2007 at 06:51 AM Posted October 5, 2007 at 06:51 AM My letters: October 5, 2007 Mr. John M. HostenyInterim Chief Legal CounselIllinois State Police801 South 7th Street, Suite 1000-SPost Office Box 19461Springfield, Illinois 62794-9461 Mr. Hosteny: I’m writing to express my concerns and opposition to the Illinois State Police’s proposal to the JCAR Committee to create a minimum age of 10 years old to obtain a FOID card. The ISP state their policy for a minimum FOID card age of 10 years old will be “in tune with Department of Natural Resources policy; its minimum age for hunting programs for youth is the same.” The ISP’s rationale is a bit deceitful. The DNR has a 10 year old minimum age requirement in only 4 of their 9 youth hunting programs we could find. The other 5 youth hunts require the hunter to be under the age of 16. The ISP’s rationale would also have some who are not familiar with hunting regulations in IL believing 10 years old is the minimum age to engage in hunting. There is no minimum age requirement during any of the regular hunting seasons. The following pages contain the age requirements for all IL youth hunts. The following youth hunting programs from the 2007-2008 Illinois Hunting Digest and Waterfowl Digest: http://dnr.state.il.us/admin/systems/Digest/Digest.pdf The following youth hunting opportunities have no minimum age requirement. 1. YOUTH DEER HUNTING SEASON INFORMATIONAntlerless only youth deer hunt, Oct. 6-7, 2007. $10 fee. Youths must be less than 16years old on Oct. 7, 2007. Youth must be accompanied by adult. Application dates andopen counties will be publicly announced. 2. Youth Deer Hunt: Lake Le-Aqua-Na State Park, Fort Massac and Crab Orchard NWR (Nov 16-18, 2007) permit required; Dixon Springs State Park (Nov. 16-18 & Nov. 29 - Dec. 2, 2007) permit required; hunters 15 years of age or younger; apply using statewide application. Here's the youth deer permit application. http://dnr.state.il.us/admin/systems/Deer/IL1013B.pdfThe Youth Deer Hunt is open only to Illinois residents who have not reached their 16th birthday by the start of the Youth Deer Hunt. All participating youths must have completed a Department-approved Hunter Education course. All youth hunters must have a current, valid Youth Deer Permit ($10) and have a hunting license, unless exempt. 3. SPRING YOUTH WILD TURKEY HUNTING SEASON INFORMATIONDuring this season, youths 15 years of age or younger accompanied by an adult may hunt. All counties open to hunting during the regular spring season are also open for the youth season. Application dates will be publicly announced. 4. Additional Youth Controlled Pheasant Hunts•Information about controlled pheasant hunting permit reservations is available on the Department’s Website at: http://dnr.state.il.us/•Hunters under 16 hunt for free, but each young hunter must be accompanied by an adult hunter. Adult hunters must pay the $15 permit fee. From the 2007 IL Waterfowl Digest: http://www.dnr.state.il.us/admin/systems/w...fowl_digest.pdf 5. Youth Waterfowl Hunting Day Regulations1. Youth hunters must be 15 years of age or younger and must have a hunting license and HIP registration/certification unless hunting on property where they reside. No stamps are required for youths under 16.2. Only geese, ducks, mergansers and coots may be taken in addition to other game in season.3. An adult at least 18 years of age must accompany the youth hunter into the field. This adult cannot hunt geese, ducks, coots or mergansers but can participate in other open seasons. The following 4 youth hunts have a minimum age requirement of 10 years old. 1. Illinois Youth Controlled Pheasant HuntsHunters ages 10-15•Information about controlled pheasant hunting permit reservationsis available on the Department’s Website at: http://dnr.state.il.us/•Each hunter must be accompanied by a non-hunting supervising adult who must wear blaze orange.•Hunters or supervising adult must possess a Firearm Owner’s Identification Card. 2. Youth Dove Hunt: Sept. 1, 2007 - Ramsey Lake State Park(*), Horseshoe Lake State Park**(Madison County), Mackinaw River State Fish & Wildlife Area(*)**, Silver Springs State Park, Kankakee River State Park(*)**, Sangchris Lake State Park(*)**, Mt. Vernon Game Propagation Center(*)**, Stephen A. Forbes State Park and Sam Parr State Park(*) and Lake Shelbyville (*). (*) sites that allow both youth and supervisor to hunt.**Requires non-toxic shot. Permit required; hunters 10-15 years old; check in 10 a.m. - 11 a.m.; no standbys available; hunters must be accompanied by supervising adult; hunteror supervising adult must possess a Firearm Owner’s Identification Card. 3. Youth Waterfowl Hunt: Donnelley State Fish and Wildlife Management Area, Banner Marsh State Fish and Wildlife Area and Snakeden Hollow State Fish and Wildlife Area - Nov. 11, 2007. Also, on the first weekend and third Saturday of the Illinois Central Zone Waterfowl season at Donnelley State Wildlife Area. Free permit required: Hunters 10-15 years old; hunters must be accompanied by supervising adult; hunter or supervising adult must possess a Firearm Owner’s Identification Card; supervising adult may hunt. 4. Youth Goose Hunt: Dec. 26-27, 2007 – Union Co. Conservation Area and Horseshoe LakeConservation Area – 2-day event – Mandatory attendance on Wednesday afternoon for registration, free dinner and blind assignment. Thursday, Dec. 27 is the hunt date. Free permit required: Hunters 10-15 years old; hunters must be accompanied by supervising adult; hunter or supervising adult must possess a Firearm Owner’s Identification Card; supervisingadult may hunt. Once again I express my opposition to the ISP’s proposal of a minimum FOID age requirement. Their rationale is not “in tune” with the majority of the DNR’s youth hunting programs. It makes one wonder what truly is the ISP’s intent. Sincerely, Kent Peacock, PresidentFirearm Safety Training, Inc. October 5, 2007 Sam FloodActing Director Illinois Department of Natural ResourcesOne Natural Resources WaySpringfield, IL 62702 Acting Director Flood: I’m am writing to inquire about the DNR’s position to the ISP’s proposal to the JCAR Committee to create a minimum age of 10 years old to obtain a FOID card. The following is the ISP’s proposal from the September 21, 2007 JCAR Flinn Report:http://www.ilga.gov/commission/jcar/flinn/reg38.pdf FIREARM ID CARDSThe DEPARTMENT OF STATE POLICE proposed an amendment to rules titled "Firearm Owner's Identification Card Act" (20 Ill Adm Code 1230; 31 Ill Reg 13346) setting the minimum age of application for a card at 10 years old. DSP is setting its policy in tune with Department of Natural Resources policy; its minimum age for hunting programs for youth is the same. The ISP’s rationale is deceitful. It is not “in tune” with the majority of the DNR’s youth hunting programs. As you can see in my attached letter to Mr. Hosteny, I could only find 4 youth hunting programs with a minimum age of 10 years old. The other 5 DNR programs have no minimum age requirement nor do any of the regular hunting seasons. Your quote from your message in the 2007-2008 IL Hunting digest would seem to conflict with the ISP’s proposal and the DNR’s efforts to expand hunting opportunities in Illinois. “Illinois has a great tradition as an outstanding place to enjoy outdoor recreation opportunities, including hunting and trapping. We take pride in our ongoing efforts to expand hunting opportunities and to make it more convenient for hunters andtrappers to participate.” The ISP’s proposal does not coincide with the DNR’s efforts to expand hunting opportunities in IL. Especially in attracting new hunters! The ISP’s proposal is an unnecessary hurdle and may hinder your department’s efforts over the long term. I would hope you and your department would be against the ISP’s proposal. Their rationale is deceitful and not “in tune” with the DNR’s youth hunting programs. Please let me know where you stand. Sincerely, Kent Peacock, PresidentFirearm Safety Training, Inc.
RichardM Posted October 5, 2007 at 01:34 PM Posted October 5, 2007 at 01:34 PM My letters: October 5, 2007 Mr. John M. HostenyInterim Chief Legal CounselIllinois State Police801 South 7th Street, Suite 1000-SPost Office Box 19461Springfield, Illinois 62794-9461 Mr. Hosteny: I’m writing to express my concerns and opposition to the Illinois State Police’s proposal to the JCAR Committee to create a minimum age of 10 years old to obtain a FOID card. The ISP state their policy for a minimum FOID card age of 10 years old will be “in tune with Department of Natural Resources policy; its minimum age for hunting programs for youth is the same.” The ISP’s rationale is a bit deceitful. The DNR has a 10 year old minimum age requirement in only 4 of their 9 youth hunting programs we could find. The other 5 youth hunts require the hunter to be under the age of 16. The ISP’s rationale would also have some who are not familiar with hunting regulations in IL believing 10 years old is the minimum age to engage in hunting. There is no minimum age requirement during any of the regular hunting seasons. The following pages contain the age requirements for all IL youth hunts. The following youth hunting programs from the 2007-2008 Illinois Hunting Digest and Waterfowl Digest: http://dnr.state.il.us/admin/systems/Digest/Digest.pdf The following youth hunting opportunities have no minimum age requirement. 1. YOUTH DEER HUNTING SEASON INFORMATIONAntlerless only youth deer hunt, Oct. 6-7, 2007. $10 fee. Youths must be less than 16years old on Oct. 7, 2007. Youth must be accompanied by adult. Application dates andopen counties will be publicly announced. 2. Youth Deer Hunt: Lake Le-Aqua-Na State Park, Fort Massac and Crab Orchard NWR (Nov 16-18, 2007) permit required; Dixon Springs State Park (Nov. 16-18 & Nov. 29 - Dec. 2, 2007) permit required; hunters 15 years of age or younger; apply using statewide application. Here's the youth deer permit application. http://dnr.state.il.us/admin/systems/Deer/IL1013B.pdfThe Youth Deer Hunt is open only to Illinois residents who have not reached their 16th birthday by the start of the Youth Deer Hunt. All participating youths must have completed a Department-approved Hunter Education course. All youth hunters must have a current, valid Youth Deer Permit ($10) and have a hunting license, unless exempt. 3. SPRING YOUTH WILD TURKEY HUNTING SEASON INFORMATIONDuring this season, youths 15 years of age or younger accompanied by an adult may hunt. All counties open to hunting during the regular spring season are also open for the youth season. Application dates will be publicly announced. 4. Additional Youth Controlled Pheasant Hunts•Information about controlled pheasant hunting permit reservations is available on the Department’s Website at: http://dnr.state.il.us/•Hunters under 16 hunt for free, but each young hunter must be accompanied by an adult hunter. Adult hunters must pay the $15 permit fee. From the 2007 IL Waterfowl Digest: http://www.dnr.state.il.us/admin/systems/w...fowl_digest.pdf 5. Youth Waterfowl Hunting Day Regulations1. Youth hunters must be 15 years of age or younger and must have a hunting license and HIP registration/certification unless hunting on property where they reside. No stamps are required for youths under 16.2. Only geese, ducks, mergansers and coots may be taken in addition to other game in season.3. An adult at least 18 years of age must accompany the youth hunter into the field. This adult cannot hunt geese, ducks, coots or mergansers but can participate in other open seasons. The following 4 youth hunts have a minimum age requirement of 10 years old. 1. Illinois Youth Controlled Pheasant HuntsHunters ages 10-15•Information about controlled pheasant hunting permit reservationsis available on the Department’s Website at: http://dnr.state.il.us/•Each hunter must be accompanied by a non-hunting supervising adult who must wear blaze orange.•Hunters or supervising adult must possess a Firearm Owner’s Identification Card. 2. Youth Dove Hunt: Sept. 1, 2007 - Ramsey Lake State Park(*), Horseshoe Lake State Park**(Madison County), Mackinaw River State Fish & Wildlife Area(*)**, Silver Springs State Park, Kankakee River State Park(*)**, Sangchris Lake State Park(*)**, Mt. Vernon Game Propagation Center(*)**, Stephen A. Forbes State Park and Sam Parr State Park(*) and Lake Shelbyville (*). (*) sites that allow both youth and supervisor to hunt.**Requires non-toxic shot. Permit required; hunters 10-15 years old; check in 10 a.m. - 11 a.m.; no standbys available; hunters must be accompanied by supervising adult; hunteror supervising adult must possess a Firearm Owner’s Identification Card. 3. Youth Waterfowl Hunt: Donnelley State Fish and Wildlife Management Area, Banner Marsh State Fish and Wildlife Area and Snakeden Hollow State Fish and Wildlife Area - Nov. 11, 2007. Also, on the first weekend and third Saturday of the Illinois Central Zone Waterfowl season at Donnelley State Wildlife Area. Free permit required: Hunters 10-15 years old; hunters must be accompanied by supervising adult; hunter or supervising adult must possess a Firearm Owner’s Identification Card; supervising adult may hunt. 4. Youth Goose Hunt: Dec. 26-27, 2007 – Union Co. Conservation Area and Horseshoe LakeConservation Area – 2-day event – Mandatory attendance on Wednesday afternoon for registration, free dinner and blind assignment. Thursday, Dec. 27 is the hunt date. Free permit required: Hunters 10-15 years old; hunters must be accompanied by supervising adult; hunter or supervising adult must possess a Firearm Owner’s Identification Card; supervisingadult may hunt. Once again I express my opposition to the ISP’s proposal of a minimum FOID age requirement. Their rationale is not “in tune” with the majority of the DNR’s youth hunting programs. It makes one wonder what truly is the ISP’s intent. Sincerely, Kent Peacock, PresidentFirearm Safety Training, Inc. October 5, 2007 Sam FloodActing Director Illinois Department of Natural ResourcesOne Natural Resources WaySpringfield, IL 62702 Acting Director Flood: I’m am writing to inquire about the DNR’s position to the ISP’s proposal to the JCAR Committee to create a minimum age of 10 years old to obtain a FOID card. The following is the ISP’s proposal from the September 21, 2007 JCAR Flinn Report:http://www.ilga.gov/commission/jcar/flinn/reg38.pdf FIREARM ID CARDSThe DEPARTMENT OF STATE POLICE proposed an amendment to rules titled "Firearm Owner's Identification Card Act" (20 Ill Adm Code 1230; 31 Ill Reg 13346) setting the minimum age of application for a card at 10 years old. DSP is setting its policy in tune with Department of Natural Resources policy; its minimum age for hunting programs for youth is the same. The ISP’s rationale is deceitful. It is not “in tune” with the majority of the DNR’s youth hunting programs. As you can see in my attached letter to Mr. Hosteny, I could only find 4 youth hunting programs with a minimum age of 10 years old. The other 5 DNR programs have no minimum age requirement nor do any of the regular hunting seasons. Your quote from your message in the 2007-2008 IL Hunting digest would seem to conflict with the ISP’s proposal and the DNR’s efforts to expand hunting opportunities in Illinois. “Illinois has a great tradition as an outstanding place to enjoy outdoor recreation opportunities, including hunting and trapping. We take pride in our ongoing efforts to expand hunting opportunities and to make it more convenient for hunters andtrappers to participate.” The ISP’s proposal does not coincide with the DNR’s efforts to expand hunting opportunities in IL. Especially in attracting new hunters! The ISP’s proposal is an unnecessary hurdle and may hinder your department’s efforts over the long term. I would hope you and your department would be against the ISP’s proposal. Their rationale is deceitful and not “in tune” with the DNR’s youth hunting programs. Please let me know where you stand. Sincerely, Kent Peacock, PresidentFirearm Safety Training, Inc.Great letter Kent, but I worry that the DNR will jsut eliminate hunting for anyone under 10 now....they will go along with the anti-gun state so they keep their jobs. Does anyone know if the DNR people are pro gun? pro self defense? also I think if we make this about hunting we can lose. The FOID card is NOT ABOUT HUNTING!!!!
45superman Posted October 5, 2007 at 03:16 PM Posted October 5, 2007 at 03:16 PM I would love to see what the people who want to deny FOID cards to kids would think about this idea. It might just put some of them off their feed .See what I mean?
anonymous too Posted October 5, 2007 at 04:51 PM Posted October 5, 2007 at 04:51 PM I think if we make this about hunting we can lose. I'm not. The ISP did and they're being deceitful and their rationale is distorted. Only 4 of 9 youth hunting programs require being 10 or older. I still don't know how the ISRA is saying this proposal will abolish youth shooting and hunting. FIREARM ID CARDSThe DEPARTMENT OF STATE POLICE proposed an amendment to rules titled "Firearm Owner's Identification Card Act" (20 Ill Adm Code 1230; 31 Ill Reg 13346) setting the minimum age of application for a card at 10 years old. DSP is setting its policy in tune with Department of Natural Resources policy; its minimum age for hunting programs for youth is the same. Is the above just a summary or introduction to the proposal or is this it?
anonymous too Posted October 5, 2007 at 04:55 PM Posted October 5, 2007 at 04:55 PM I gotta get me some Goody Guns!
martho Posted October 6, 2007 at 02:18 AM Posted October 6, 2007 at 02:18 AM WI has a 12 year old limit to handle long guns.
anonymous too Posted October 6, 2007 at 04:06 AM Posted October 6, 2007 at 04:06 AM WI has a 12 year old limit to handle long guns. I thought that was just to hunt. So someone under 12 can't target shoot?
RichardM Posted October 6, 2007 at 12:57 PM Posted October 6, 2007 at 12:57 PM see what I mean about if you make it about hunting we can lose. They will just raise the age limit for hunting now.
anonymous too Posted October 6, 2007 at 05:26 PM Posted October 6, 2007 at 05:26 PM see what I mean about if you make it about hunting we can lose. They will just raise the age limit for hunting now. What do you wanna make it about then? It's the ISP's rationale for the proposal. Well.........the ISP isn't being totally up front when they say they are "in tune" with the DNR's policy when 5 of the 9 youth programs I could find have no minimum age and there is no minimum age during any of the regular seasons. The ISP needs to be called out on this. They're being deceitful! The DNR's focus is to increase hunting opportunities and increase participation. The adoption of an apprentice license last year allows someone who would normally be required to have taken a hunter safety class to hunt for one year under supervision without hunter safety certification. Blago even touted this! It's against the goals of the DNR to have a mimimum hunting age. The ISP's proposal says nothing about a minimum age to handle firearms, so I don't know how the ISRA is saying this. It may be the ISP's ultimate intent, but to argue something that's not in the proposal is a waste of the JCAR committee's time. The ISRA's alert said be to the point. I'm just proving the ISP's is not being upfront or has no clue. I agree with the ISRA's 4 points. #2 is a very good because it deals with a specific law. The DNR does have a youth hunting proposal scheduled for this Tuesday's JCAR meeting. It has nothing to do with age either. The proposal will is to extend shooting hours change "leg tag" to "temporary harvest tag", and permit quota setting. It even says this in the DNR's proposal! Youth deer hunters are subject to the same Statewide rules and regulations as all other hunters. JCAR 10-10-07 agenda: http://www.ilga.gov/commission/jcar/wagenda.pdf 8-10-07 Flinn Report: http://www.ilga.gov/commission/jcar/flinn/reg32.pdf YOUTH DEER HUNTINGThe DEPARTMENT OF NATURALRESOURCES adopted emergency amendments to "Youth Hunting Seasons" (17 Adm Code 685; 31 Ill Reg 12096), effective 8/1/07, for a maximum of 150 days. An identical proposed rulemaking appears in this week's Illinois Register at 31 Ill Reg 11501. The rulemaking extends shooting hours to ½ hour after sunset, and any permit quotas will be set by DNR on a county or special hunt area basis. Cook, DuPage, and Lake countiesand the portion of Kane County east of State Route 47 are closed to firearm deer hunting. Youth deer hunters are subject to the same Statewide rules and regulations as all other hunters, including the harvest of no more than two antlered deer peryear. (The rules currently restrict youth permits to one anterless deer only.) Deer seasons are considered to be in the same year if their opening dates fall within the same12-month period that begins on July 1st. The terminology for leg tags is changed to "temporary harvest tag". Those affected by this rulemaking include outfitters andother small businesses that serve deer hunters. I still wonder what the exactly is the ISP's intent.
Black Flag Posted October 6, 2007 at 07:04 PM Posted October 6, 2007 at 07:04 PM -FST's post trimmed-I still wonder what the exactly is the ISP's intent. I'm sure this comes straight from Blago's chair after 'lil Bubba got his FOID in May. I think the intent is to further embarrass and humiliate gun owners in Illinois with more nuances to the FOID,and to see if the ISP can get away with it.and what to I mean by that? Everything in the ISP administrative rules for FOID procedures is mirrored in legislation.This limit on age is not in the statutes. If the ISP can get away with this, can they create additional restrictions? This is an attempt at backdoor legislation through the executive branch.
anonymous too Posted October 7, 2007 at 02:15 AM Posted October 7, 2007 at 02:15 AM This is an attempt at backdoor legislation through the executive branch. Exactly!
anonymous too Posted October 9, 2007 at 03:36 AM Posted October 9, 2007 at 03:36 AM I forget where I read it today, but the DNR favors this minimum age. The DNR says you must be 10 yrs old to attend a hunter safety class. That requirement must be new. The instructor I'm friends with said his requirement was that the child must take the test with no help. Which means they can read and they understand the material that was presented. It boggles the mind! There is no minimun age requirement for any of the regular hunting seasons!!! The youth deer permit application says this:http://dnr.state.il.us/admin/systems/Deer/IL1013B.pdfThe Youth Deer Hunt is open only to Illinois residents who have not reached their 16th birthday by the start of the Youth Deer Hunt. All participating youths must have completed a Department-approved Hunter Education course. Release from the NSSF. Illinois State Police Propose Age Ban on Firearms The Illinois State Police have submitted a proposal to the Joint Committee on Administrative Rules (JCAR) which would end firearm safety education and shooting activities, including hunting, for anyone under 10 years of age. The proposal, which must be approved by JCAR, would forbid parents from obtaining Illinois Firearm Owner Identification (FOID) cards for their children under age 10. If this proposal were to become law the state would dictate to parents how and when they could pass along our history, heritage and culture to their children. No hunting. No safety education and training. No shooting sports. What's more, the proposal could force parents to store their firearms only in a manner authorized by the state. This regulation would do nothing to curb crime and only endanger children as parents would have to delay firearm safety education until their children were older. Furthermore, according to the National Safety Council, firearms accidents involving children are at an all-time low -- involved in less than 1 percent of all accidental fatalities in the United States. Prior to considering proposed regulations, JCAR must observe a 45-day public comment period during which citizens may submit their views on the proposal, in writing, to JCAR. Please send comments on your opposition to this change by Oct. 25, 2007 to: Mr. John M. HostenyInterim Chief Legal CounselIllinois State Police801 South 7th Street, Suite 1000-SPost Office Box 19461Springfield, Illinois 62794-9461
RichardM Posted October 9, 2007 at 04:09 AM Posted October 9, 2007 at 04:09 AM I forget where I read it today, but the DNR favors this minimum age. The DNR says you must be 10 yrs old to attend a hunter safety class. That requirement must be new. The instructor I'm friends with said his requirement was that the child must take the test with no help. Which means they can read and they understand the material that was presented. It boggles the mind! There is no minimun age requirement for any of the regular hunting seasons!!!see what I mean.....they will just change the age to fit the ISP don't think for a second the DNR is on our side. THey get paid by the State of Blago...so they do what the state says. You are trying to use common sense...which we all know doesn't work if they want the age to be 10 for FOIDs they will make hunting 10 YO age limit.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.