33 replies to this topic

[Kenny]

Winnebago County Concealed Carry Petition Please sign it & send it to everyone you know & post on other websites Lets get as many as we can because this will also be sent to Springfield with the resolution.

[wazzle]

Done

[sticks]

signed . . .

[GlockShooter]

Done.

[SAK]

yay it finally worked.  Signed and will post it to ICarry and spam it out to my list.

[Board9]

As promised all my friends. Here is the editorial that was posted today in the Monroe Wisconsin newspaper by Tere Dunlop, a reporter and friend of mine.
http://www.themonroe...910&TM=55539.79

Please send Tere a THANK YOU after you read the editorial. She will also be attending the meeting on June 10th.

Fred Wescott

[GlockShooter]

Very nice!  I was unaware that Winnebago County has Home Rule.  That's huge in this regard!

[SAK]

I thought that the board members at our last meeting stated that Winn. County does NOT have home rule, that home rule only applied to municipalities and not to counties.  Either way, the county still has power and can enact legislation.

[cberan]

Did you guys see the reply already?

[SAK]

I replied.  We'll see if it gets posted or not.

If some of our replies (I'm guessing im not the only one to reply) get posted, then we can stop talking to that idiot and get back to the positive pro-rights view

Here's my reply:

Quote

First of all, let me sign my name to my post, unlike the fellow lacking knowledge who started this out.

"Regulated" as used at the time of the Bill of Rights meant "disciplined" or "trained."  So "well regulated" means "well disciplined" or "well trained."  Regulated did not mean restricted as we use the term today.

Most importantly, even if the Second Amendment was entirely absent from the Constitution, it doesn't matter at all.  The Ninth (9th) Amendment reads: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."  I will explain this, since you probably do not understand.  This means that the LISTING of rights should never been used to suggest or argue that other rights do not exist.  You see, our inherent, inate, God-given, unalienable rights are so many that they may not be listed at all.  The founding fathers only sought to protect some of those rights which they felt were some of the most basic, fundamental, and necessary rights.  Anytime you or other ignoramouses try to argue that the Second Amendment doesn't mean what it says, you are also ignoring the Ninth Amendment entirely.

Originally, it was required that a natural human being file a complaint against another for their to be an alleged crime.  Nowadays the "state" has taken the place of the plaintiff, and seeks damages itself.  We have endless lists of victimless crimes -- that is prohibited actions (prohibition...just like early 20th century), which punish behavior that does not injur others.

We already have laws that outlaw crime.  Murder, rape, robbery, and everything else.  Unfortunately, no matter how "strict" we make these laws, or how "harsh" the punishment, criminals still disobey the laws.  No matter how high the stack of laws gets, criminals still disregard each and every one.  Criminals, who by definition are those who violate the rights of others and cause injury, are willing to break the moral laws of humanity -- laws which none of us argue over.  Do you honestly think they pay attention at all to administrative laws prohibiting carrying guns or any other type of weapon?  Should we create a new law to make it illegal to press a trigger and shoot someone?  Perhaps it should be illegal to stare at a woman's purse because, afterall, you may be planning on grabbing it?

Stop it with the nonsense, ignorance, and foolishness.  We have decades of imperical data to prove that restrictive gun laws actually serve to encourage crime, while non-restrictive gun laws reduce crime.

Countries like Great Britain have much higher violent crime rates and all types of crime rates than the United States.  Even Canada is catching up.  Countries like Australia who have banned the ownership of guns have seen remarkable increases in burglary, robbery, rape, and, ironically, "gun crime."  More murders and lawlessly is committed with guns by the same sector of the population (criminals) as ever!  Now the criminals know that only police can stop them!

Either sign your name to your post, or go away.  No one is buying what you're selling.  You would do yourself well to educate yourself too.  www.gunfacts.info is a good start.  But you can find the FACTS of this matter all over the place.

[cberan]

Done

[raiven]

sighned it.

[Kaeghl]

[quote name='SAK' date='Jun 6 2008, 06:12 PM' post='93498']
I replied.  We'll see if it gets posted or not.

If some of our replies (I'm guessing im not the only one to reply) get posted, then we can stop talking to that idiot and get back to the positive pro-rights view


Oh, for cripes sake, that "Wondering" bozoid is ranting again. Some people just won't learn, because they're just too damn stupid to face facts and deny those facts when presented to them.

[ewellnitz]

Notice that Wondering is the ONLY anti posting in what is the most liberal area of Wisconsin.  Monroe is very close to Madison.  I guess Wisconsin citizens are tired of the same old arguments of the antis as well.

[junglebob]

ewellnitz, on Jun 7 2008, 01:22 PM, said:

Notice that Wondering is the ONLY anti posting in what is the most liberal area of Wisconsin.  Monroe is very close to Madison.  I guess Wisconsin citizens are tired of the same old arguments of the antis as well.

Actually Monroe the south eastern tip of Monroe county is about 60 miles from Madison as the crow flies.  I used to live in Wisconsin and went through Monroe county every once in a while, Sparta  with a population of about 7,800 is the largest city I believe, total county population in the 2000 census 40,899 very small compared to the population of Madison at 191,293 and Dane county where Madison is located at 426,526.  I would guess Monroe county is still conservative as far as guns are concerned.   I'm not saying that half of the people open carry or anything, but it would be more likely to happen than in Madison. The difference is probably like Cook county and Winnebago, though you can have some antis anywhere.

[w00dc4ip]

Petition signed, here's my reply to the article:

Quote

Wondering, it's called the FBI Uniform Crime Report, and it's produced by the FBI every year.  It's always available on the FBI web site.  You can get the compiled information by looking at gunfacts.info, but as I'm sure you wouldn't trust the stats listed there, feel free to compare the stats in the FBI UCR yourself.  I have.  All you have to do is look at the year each state passed concealed carry laws and compare the crime stats in the UCR for the years before concealed carry laws to the years after concealed carry laws.  You'll notice that in the majority of states, not all but the majority, violent crime rates drop after concealed carry is allowed.  You'll also notice that violent crime rates have never risen significantly as a result of the passage of concealed carry laws.  There's also an award winning economist named John Lott that has studied these stats and written a book about them called "More Guns Less Crime".  Or, you could look at the CDC report published last year that studied gun control laws and found none of them have ever produced a drop in crime.  I'm sure you'll never actually look at any of this stuff because you've already decided you're right and have no interest in looking at facts provided by a non-biased source, but maybe someone with an open mind and the ability to use logic might read this comment and view these sources of unbiased data.  

Regardless of the statistics regarding concealed carry, gun control, and violent crime, the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution protects an individual right to KEEP and BEAR arms.  Arms means guns, keep means own, and bear means carry.  Find me a dictionary that disagrees with those definitions.  Even if there was no Second Amendment, people would still have the right to defend themselves, their families, their property, and their rights.  No government or government agency has the power to tell people that they cannot defend themselves.  In today's world, the only true guarantee for self-defense, is a gun is the hands of a citizen that knows how to use it.  When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

[Board9]

Good afternoon everyone. I am so flattered at all the wonderful comments towards me that have been placed on my web site. I do, however, say I am just one of the members on a 28 member board that will be voting on the resolution so I am going to hand deliver a complete guest book print out to each and every one of them to show the support from all of you. I never expected the number (127) as of today and my web site alone has tripled in hits since this started. I may just be looking for all of you to support my campaign to retain my seat using the contribute and volunteer link. We will keep up the fight to protect the US Constitution as our founding fathers expected us to do. Again. Thank you for your comments. Please pass my website on to others that can also make a statement. Once Winnebago County passes this resolution, it will cause a fire storm  of activity across the state. If nothing else, the entire country will be watching what happens. Peace with you and may God guide us to protect our loved ones.  www.FREDWESCOTT.com
CAP...Conceal And Protect

[Ashdump]

Board9, on Jun 8 2008, 12:17 PM, said:

Good afternoon everyone. I am so flattered at all the wonderful comments towards me that have been placed on my web site. I do, however, say I am just one of the members on a 28 member board that will be voting on the resolution so I am going to hand deliver a complete guest book print out to each and every one of them to show the support from all of you. I never expected the number (127) as of today and my web site alone has tripled in hits since this started. I may just be looking for all of you to support my campaign to retain my seat using the contribute and volunteer link. We will keep up the fight to protect the US Constitution as our founding fathers expected us to do. Again. Thank you for your comments. Please pass my website on to others that can also make a statement. Once Winnebago County passes this resolution, it will cause a fire storm  of activity across the state. If nothing else, the entire country will be watching what happens. Peace with you and may God guide us to protect our loved ones.  www.FREDWESCOTT.com
CAP...Conceal And Protect

Thank You and God bless you, Fred! I am sure the Founders would be proud of you. Lord knows there is little they would recognize in America today, but this is definately a step in the right direction!

[Board9]

Ashdump, on Jun 8 2008, 12:55 PM, said:

Board9, on Jun 8 2008, 12:17 PM, said:

Good afternoon everyone. I am so flattered at all the wonderful comments towards me that have been placed on my web site. I do, however, say I am just one of the members on a 28 member board that will be voting on the resolution so I am going to hand deliver a complete guest book print out to each and every one of them to show the support from all of you. I never expected the number (127) as of today and my web site alone has tripled in hits since this started. I may just be looking for all of you to support my campaign to retain my seat using the contribute and volunteer link. We will keep up the fight to protect the US Constitution as our founding fathers expected us to do. Again. Thank you for your comments. Please pass my website on to others that can also make a statement. Once Winnebago County passes this resolution, it will cause a fire storm  of activity across the state. If nothing else, the entire country will be watching what happens. Peace with you and may God guide us to protect our loved ones.  www.FREDWESCOTT.com
CAP...Conceal And Protect

Thank You and God bless you, Fred! I am sure the Founders would be proud of you. Lord knows there is little they would recognize in America today, but this is definately a step in the right direction!

I cannot be more honored and humbled. Together we can ALL accomplish great things.

[SAK]

I'm not saying that this is what's going on, but I would like to mention something for everyone here to keep in mind.

I've spent a lot of time on the net, and I've been involved in quite a few pro-rights vs. pro-hibition debates.  There are actually A LOT of folks out there who are paid by foundations, government agencies, and God knows who else that spill out the BS like "Wondering" did.  So I'm not saying he is one of them, but there is a good likely-hood.  Websites like "gun guys" are paid-for and run by these types of people as well.  I call them "propagandists," as it is NO DIFFERENT than the lies that governments and other power-elite have dumped upon the people in countries like Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, China, and the list goes on endlessly.  Unfortunately that same type of propaganda is used here

Anyhow, so don't get too worried about these bafoons.  They are either part of a very small minority of ignorant people (usually not too harmful) or paid lackies with no lives who post lies on the net   Easy to defeat, easy to expose, either way.  Especially when people hide behind the anonymity of the Internet, it's easy to expose them.  That's why I gave this guy a hard time about not using his/her real name.  If you really believe what you're saying, then you'd put your name behind it.

The only downside to using your name on the net is that if you run into enemies, they can impersonate you to try to hurt your reputation (character assassination).  This happened to me before when unknown paid jerkoffs used my name and even registered a gmail account that was my name and used it to post bull**** having to do with "white supremacy" or other hate/bigotry related trash.  Luckily even these types of attacks are only minimally effective, as it's easy for people to look at MY websites and read my REAL postings to see that that other stuff was not me.  It still stings a bit, however, and can be a nuisance sometimes.  Anyways, I'm going off on a tangent here, but I just wanted to reiterate that these people ARE really out there.  Usually they won't do to you what they did to me (it happened to me because I associated myself with one of their favorite people to character assassinate), and the majority of them are harmless except of course for the lies they spew all over.

"Stick to your guns" and you'll be fine   And if anyone wants further info on propagandists or anything, I'd be more than happy to show you.  Or if you don't believe me I will prove it

[ewellnitz]

junglebob, on Jun 7 2008, 02:07 PM, said:

ewellnitz, on Jun 7 2008, 01:22 PM, said:

Notice that Wondering is the ONLY anti posting in what is the most liberal area of Wisconsin.  Monroe is very close to Madison.  I guess Wisconsin citizens are tired of the same old arguments of the antis as well.

Actually Monroe the south eastern tip of Monroe county is about 60 miles from Madison as the crow flies.  I used to live in Wisconsin and went through Monroe county every once in a while, Sparta  with a population of about 7,800 is the largest city I believe, total county population in the 2000 census 40,899 very small compared to the population of Madison at 191,293 and Dane county where Madison is located at 426,526.  I would guess Monroe county is still conservative as far as guns are concerned.   I'm not saying that half of the people open carry or anything, but it would be more likely to happen than in Madison. The difference is probably like Cook county and Winnebago, though you can have some antis anywhere.

I was thinking of another town.  I lived in WI for more than 20 years.  The southern part of WI is very liberal - rural or not, with some exceptions.  Northern WI, where I am from, is the opposite.

The areas around Madison are similar to those around Chicago - the anti-gun movement gets weaker the farther you get from there.

[JBomb]

Signed up a few days ago...also responded to WONDERING.

[duke66]

Just signed!

[Kenny]

I just had to move it above the closed topics.

[RancidWannaRiot]

Should i sign it, or wait till i move till IL?

[Kenny]

sign it

[HighHeeledGoddess]

Having been a Wisconsinite myself until recently, I can tell you we wish that Madison would become it's own state - or even better it's own country. Madison is to Wisconsin what Crook County is to Illinois. It's sad that these larger metro areas can overwhelm the desires of the rest of the states.  :Angry!:

[Slappy]

HighHeeledGoddess, on Jun 14 2008, 04:23 PM, said:

Having been a Wisconsinite myself until recently, I can tell you we wish that Madison would become it's own state - or even better it's own country. Madison is to Wisconsin what Crook County is to Illinois. It's sad that these larger metro areas can overwhelm the desires of the rest of the states.  :Angry!:

I thought that was Milwaukee...

[Kenny]

It is both of them but Madison has more population.

[Slappy]

polhms1, on Jun 14 2008, 07:20 PM, said:

It is both of them but Madison has more population.

You learn something new every day...