115 replies to this topic

[AuroraInstructor]

I think it would be valuable if someone posted an explanation of the Tan / PERC card and what they will currently count for in the 16 hour training requirement.

[Terry 9595]

Perc card is just a guard license has nothing to do with firearms. The Tan card (firearm control card) shows that you had 20 hours guard training and another 20 hours firearm training. As I read it, if you have the armed guard training and have been issued the Tan card you are excempt from the ccw training and just need to fill out the application on 1/5/14.

[pdpsc]

Perc card is just a guard license has nothing to do with firearms. The Tan card (firearm control card) shows that you had 20 hours guard training and another 20 hours firearm training. As I read it, if you have the armed guard training and have been issued the Tan card you are excempt from the ccw training and just need to fill out the application on 1/5/14.

While not exactly perfectly worded, the gist of what he said is correct. PERC is meaningless. Possession of an FCC is a complete exemption from training.

[TJSum1]

I think it would be valuable if someone posted an explanation of the Tan / PERC card and what they will currently count for in the 16 hour training requirement.

i agree, clarification would be nice.

Edited by TJSum1, 30 September 2013 - 08:59 PM.

[firepiper]

The PERC certificate is the basic 20 hour UNarmed guard training....

An additional 20 hours is required to work as an armed guard....

Once hired, your employer will apply to the state for your "Firearms Control Card" which is Tan......you must return this card on termination of employment...

The new concealed carry law exempts training for those who have "been issued a Firearms Control Card".........(read currently working and in possession of it)

It has been said (by Molly, I believe) that this was going to have to be changed at the legislative level, not the rule making level.

The ironic thing is that (as I understand) the material is the same as that the police receive in the academy.......the state seems to be recognizing previous training in the case of LEO's but not those who have taken the 40 hour guard course.....(but neither cover the material required for banned locations - possible 3 hr refresher?)

There are a number of us here (and elsewhere, I'm sure) who fit into the "have training but no FCC" mold......

I'm waiting to see what pans out over the next couple months or so before throwing money into

[TJSum1]

The PERC certificate is the basic 20 hour UNarmed guard training....

An additional 20 hours is required to work as an armed guard....

Once hired, your employer will apply to the state for your "Firearms Control Card" which is Tan......you must return this card on termination of employment...

The new concealed carry law exempts training for those who have "been issued a Firearms Control Card".........(read currently working and in possession of it)

It has been said (by Molly, I believe) that this was going to have to be changed at the legislative level, not the rule making level.

The ironic thing is that (as I understand) the material is the same as that the police receive in the academy.......the state seems to be recognizing previous training in the case of LEO's but not those who have taken the 40 hour guard course.....(but neither cover the material required for banned locations - possible 3 hr refresher?)

There are a number of us here (and elsewhere, I'm sure) who fit into the "have training but no FCC" mold......

I'm waiting to see what pans out over the next couple months or so before throwing money into

Live fire was part of the security guard training as well. I have to believe there is enough crossover for the ISP to give at least the same credit as basic pistol. As I have said several times before, the FCC/Tan card happens after the training and is issued by your employer, one you provide proof of the 40 hours and a PERC. When you leave that employer, you return the card, not the training.

[Capt_Destro]

What happens if I get hired on for armed security, get my ccw permit and just quit the job lol? Do I lose my CCW permit?

[ca22151]

Earlier I was informed a couple of different times and in more than one thread, that the completion of the 40 hour course and issuance of the Tan Card, no matter that it may have been returned at some point or even expired, satisfied the whole 20. I have the licensure listed with the Illinois Department of Professional Regulation. I was foolishly counting on that being enought. Is there anything definitive or issued by the ISP that says different? I'd be p*ssed to have this one little ray of sunshine snatched from my hands.

[firepiper]

Earlier I was informed a couple of different times and in more than one thread, that the completion of the 40 hour course and issuance of the Tan Card, no matter that it may have been returned at some point or even expired, satisfied the whole 20. I have the licensure listed with the Illinois Department of Professional Regulation. I was foolishly counting on that being enought. Is there anything definitive or issued by the ISP that says different? I'd be p*ssed to have this one little ray of sunshine snatched from my hands.

That may be the case, but as for me (and I'm sure some others) I have received the training and was never working in an armed position - thus no tan/FCC card ever in my name........

I get that we don't lose our training when we stop working.......that's the whole point.......

It's another hurdle thrown into the race by IL.......

[ca22151]

I said 20 hours of training for IL CC license. Meant 16. Head spinning. I plan to submit my HS course, DD-214, 40 hrs armed security licensure & tan card, Utah course, Florida Course, Arizona Course (I know it doesn't count yet) and just give them all of them. Let the ISP tell me I still need more.

[pdpsc]

The PERC certificate is the basic 20 hour UNarmed guard training....

Not true. The issuance of a PERC has nothing to do with any type of training. You don't need to receive any training to receive a PERC. One can have a PERC and 0.0 hours of training.

You must have the basic training to use your PERC to work for a licensed agency though.

[vern]

The PERC certificate is the basic 20 hour UNarmed guard training....

Not true. The issuance of a PERC has nothing to do with any type of training. You don't need to receive any training to receive a PERC. One can have a PERC and 0.0 hours of training.

You must have the basic training to use your PERC to work for a licensed agency though.

This is so true. Even most instructors tell me I have to have 20 hours of training to get my perc card. Even the local junior college says in its security guard and private security class description that you will be eligible for the perc card after you take the class. While i guess that is technically correct, in reality you are eligible for the perc card before taking any training at all.
Did it used to be a requirement, or else where does everyone get this stuff from?

[Milhouse86]

Subscribed.

[TJSum1]

The PERC certificate is the basic 20 hour UNarmed guard training....

Not true. The issuance of a PERC has nothing to do with any type of training. You don't need to receive any training to receive a PERC. One can have a PERC and 0.0 hours of training.

You must have the basic training to use your PERC to work for a licensed agency though.

This is so true. Even most instructors tell me I have to have 20 hours of training to get my perc card. Even the local junior college says in its security guard and private security class description that you will be eligible for the perc card after you take the class. While i guess that is technically correct, in reality you are eligible for the perc card before taking any training at all.
Did it used to be a requirement, or else where does everyone get this stuff from?

Not sure where they get this stuff from. PERC is background check only. You submit LiveScan fingerprints and pay the fee. PERC is required by most security guard companies for unarmed guards.

[TJSum1]

I am not sure how many people this topic really affects. If is it a small percentage, it may not be getting the attention it might deserve. While it is important to those of us who have it, we are overshadowed by the majority of people who don't. It has been addressed a number of times in the forums, and at a minimum, 8 hours would be the minimum most felt would be given. I doubt it is on the top ten list of things to discuss with the ISP. Just my 2 cents.

[TJSum1]

_{Initial word seems to indicate that security guard training might not be recognized based upon the wording of acceptable training:
"The Department and certified firearms instructor shall
recognize up to 8 hours of training already completed toward
the 16 hour training requirement under this Section if the
training course is approved by the Department and recognized
under the laws of another state."}

[Molly B.]

It is on the Top Ten list to discuss with the ISP. It is still being discussed. That fact that the 40 hr. course is not listed for partial credit gives me hope that it qualifies as fulfilling the entire 16 hrs.

The intent of the law was for anyone who has taken the training fulfills the training requirement - whether or not they currently have a tan card. We are still working on this.

[vern]

Thank you Miss V. Good to hear.

[TJSum1]

It is on the Top Ten list to discuss with the ISP. It is still being discussed. That fact that the 40 hr. course is not listed for partial credit gives me hope that it qualifies as fulfilling the entire 16 hrs.

The intent of the law was for anyone who has taken the training fulfills the training requirement - whether or not they currently have a tan card. We are still working on this.

I appreciate that and will look for further details to follow. Thank you.

[bob]

when I took it it was only 30 hours.

[mrchgo]

It would be great if this were cleared up ASAP the "have been issued" part or have an active tan card. It would free up class time for others. As it is now I am taking up space in a class that someone else could have.

[vern]

I haven't signed up for a class yet, hoping Miss Molly can tell us something good to hear before long. Before the law was finalized I didn't think there was any doubt about it qualifyng. Like Miss Molly said, the fact that it isn't even on the accepted list still gives me some hope.

[TJSum1]

I haven't signed up for a class yet, hoping Miss Molly can tell us something good to hear before long. Before the law was finalized I didn't think there was any doubt about it qualifyng. Like Miss Molly said, the fact that it isn't even on the accepted list still gives me some hope.

Hope is a wonderful thing. I too remain hopeful.

[cshipley92]

A person who has qualified to carry a firearm as an
active law enforcement officer, a person certified as a
firearms instructor by this Act or by the Illinois Law
Enforcement Training Standards Board, or a person who has
completed the required training and has been issued a firearm
control card by the Department of Financial and Professional
Regulation shall be exempt from the requirements of this
Section.

The law doesn't say you have to have a current tan card. The language is past tense. "Has" and "has been" are past tense. There is nothing in there that says you have to currently possess a tan card to be exempt.

It is specific though, just completing the training to get the card isn't enough unfortunately. Notice the "and". You have to have had both in the past. There is no time limit, or hour limit either. Just if you've ever completed the training and been issued a tan card in the past, you qualify for an exemption from training.

IANAL but it seems pretty cut and dried to me. Of course, this is Illinois so....

[mrchgo]

And that is what I need cleared up. I had the training and was issued a tan card but no longer work security.

[TJSum1]

And that is what I need cleared up. I had the training and was issued a tan card but no longer work security.

Just wondering, does the TAN/FCC card show up in the "License Lookup" at the IDFPR as previously issue? If so, that would be all the proof you would need, in my opinion.

Edited by TJSum1, 02 October 2013 - 07:52 PM.

[cshipley92]

And that is what I need cleared up. I had the training and was issued a tan card but no longer work security.

Just wondering, does the TAN/FCC card show up in the "License Lookup" at the IDFPR?

One way to find out. https://www.idfpr.co...censelookup.asp

[pdpsc]

And that is what I need cleared up. I had the training and was issued a tan card but no longer work security.

Just wondering, does the TAN/FCC card show up in the "License Lookup" at the IDFPR as previously issue? If so, that would be all the proof you would need, in my opinion.

Yes

[TJSum1]

And that is what I need cleared up. I had the training and was issued a tan card but no longer work security.

Just wondering, does the TAN/FCC card show up in the "License Lookup" at the IDFPR?

One way to find out. https://www.idfpr.co...censelookup.asp

it is a choice for lookup, but not sure if previous issued is there. I never got a card, so nothing under my name, besides the Firearms Training and my PERC

Edited by TJSum1, 02 October 2013 - 07:57 PM.

[pdpsc]

it is a choice for lookup, but not sure if previous issued is there. I never got a card, so nothing under my name, besides the Firearms Training and my PERC

All of them issued at any point are there. Active, inactive, expired, revoked, all there.