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Sen. Fowler Meeting, Marion, 10/21/19


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#1 speedbump

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 02:06 PM

FYI: Dale Fowler is hosting a sportsmans' meeting tonight at the Marion Carnegie Library (basement) from 6:00-7:45. He's expected to cover several topics, including current and pending legislation. The ISRA is encouraging people to attend to point out concerns.
"The struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, or it may be both. But it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will."

~Frederick Douglass~

#2 speedbump

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 02:02 PM

There was a good turnout last night, 50+ people, and the senator had a rep there from IDNR. The info and Q&A went on for nearly two hours, mostly about hunting, fishing, and habitat issues. They were very accommodating toward youth and disabled veteran hunts.

I did hit em on why IDNR regs were in conflict with UUW and FCCA statutes. My point was, "Why is IDNR creating gun free zones on private property when lawful citizens with valid permits are engaged in completely lawful activity on their own ground?" He stated they agreed that requiring a concealed carry holder to disarm while in the field was preposterous, and Senator Fowler agreed to take it up in session. They clearly are aware of an issue, because they amended IDNR regs to allow L.E. to carry concealed while hunting.
"The struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, or it may be both. But it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will."

~Frederick Douglass~

#3 Black Flag

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 06:51 PM

Was there anyone there from the ISRA?

 

For every LEO that the law and the IDNR regulations exempt, aren't there 8 or 9 CCW holders?
 


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#4 speedbump

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 05:23 AM

Nobody from ISRA spoke, but there were regional reps there.

As far as exempted folks, I'm sure the ratio is huge. I simply don't see southern Illinois prosecutors going after a CCL holder for carrying a concealed handgun - particularly on private property, let alone their OWN property.
"The struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, or it may be both. But it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will."

~Frederick Douglass~

#5 FST_Kent

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 07:44 AM

particularly on private property, let alone their OWN property.

 

 

A CCL isn't even needed on private property, especially by someone who owns or controls the property.



#6 speedbump

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 09:00 PM

particularly on private property, let alone their OWN property.

 
A CCL isn't even needed on private property, especially by someone who owns or controls the property.

IDNR regs forbid the carrying of any firearm while hunting unless it is a season in which that type of firearm is allowed.

If you're wandering about hiking your property, no prob, but as soon as you're considered "hunting", no bueno. That's what we're trying to get rectified.
"The struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, or it may be both. But it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will."

~Frederick Douglass~

#7 speedbump

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 09:07 PM

Scroll down to "Conceal and Carry Q&A", the link takes you to their regs on it:

https://www.dnr.illi...rted.aspx#name6

Edited by speedbump, 23 October 2019 - 09:07 PM.

"The struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, or it may be both. But it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will."

~Frederick Douglass~

#8 FST_Kent

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 08:56 AM

I know what the law/regs say.

 

I'm responding to this interaction after the meeting.

 

I did hit em on why IDNR regs were in conflict with UUW and FCCA statutes. My point was, "Why is IDNR creating gun free zones on private property when lawful citizens with valid permits are engaged in completely lawful activity on their own ground?" He stated they agreed that requiring a concealed carry holder to disarm while in the field was preposterous, and Senator Fowler agreed to take it up in session. They clearly are aware of an issue, because they amended IDNR regs to allow L.E. to carry concealed while hunting.

 

 

I'm arguing a CCL isn't needed for a property owner on his own land or land he controls.

 

All versions of bills addressing this issue in the past have only included CCL holders and LEO's.  If passed would require the owner to obtain a CCL while on his own property or property he controls while participating in the same DNR controlled activities.

 

If you're wandering about hiking your property, no prob, but as soon as you're considered "hunting", no bueno. That's what we're trying to get rectified.

 

 

As long as it mirrors the UUW statute and includes the same exceptions for the private property owner.

 

And it's only deer hunting, turkey hunting, and dog training where the DNR has restrictions.



#9 Birdhunter1

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 10:33 AM

What does it matter if I am on my property or on public property while hunting, I could at anytime be legal to carry a concealed weapon until that moment I place a bow in my hands and have a valid deer permit.

 

^^Not that it has ever stopped me.



#10 speedbump

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 11:00 AM

I know what the law/regs say.
 
I'm responding to this interaction after the meeting.
 

I did hit em on why IDNR regs were in conflict with UUW and FCCA statutes. My point was, "Why is IDNR creating gun free zones on private property when lawful citizens with valid permits are engaged in completely lawful activity on their own ground?" He stated they agreed that requiring a concealed carry holder to disarm while in the field was preposterous, and Senator Fowler agreed to take it up in session. They clearly are aware of an issue, because they amended IDNR regs to allow L.E. to carry concealed while hunting.

 
I'm arguing a CCL isn't needed for a property owner on his own land or land he controls.
 
All versions of bills addressing this issue in the past have only included CCL holders and LEO's.  If passed would require the owner to obtain a CCL while on his own property or property he controls while participating in the same DNR controlled activities.
 

If you're wandering about hiking your property, no prob, but as soon as you're considered "hunting", no bueno. That's what we're trying to get rectified.

 
As long as it mirrors the UUW statute and includes the same exceptions for the private property owner.
 
And it's only deer hunting, turkey hunting, and dog training where the DNR has restrictions.
Did you read the link at the DNR site I posted???

"IT IS UNLAWFUL
A) to carry any firearm or sidearm while hunting deer with a bow &
arrow; B) for any person having taken the legal limit of deer by bow
and arrow to further participate with bow and arrow in any deer hunt-
ing party; C) to drive deer, or participate in a deer drive, on all Depart-
ment owned or managed properties. A deer drive is defined as a
deliberate action by one or more persons (whether armed or unarmed)
whose intent is to cause deer to move within archery range of one or
more participating hunters. For more details regarding deer hunting
laws, please refer to the Hunting Digest; or contact Law Enforcement
at 217-782-6431 or the Permit Office at 217-782-7305."

Edited by speedbump, 24 October 2019 - 11:06 AM.

"The struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, or it may be both. But it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will."

~Frederick Douglass~

#11 speedbump

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 11:07 AM

What does it matter if I am on my property or on public property while hunting, I could at anytime be legal to carry a concealed weapon until that moment I place a bow in my hands and have a valid deer permit.
 
^^Not that it has ever stopped me.


Agreed.
"The struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, or it may be both. But it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will."

~Frederick Douglass~

#12 FST_Kent

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 11:58 AM

Did you read the link at the DNR site I posted???

 

 

You're misunderstanding my point completely.

 

I'm talking about the "fix", not the current law.

 

Past bill have only included CCL holders and LEO's.  The LEO's got their carve out earlier this year.

 

The "fix" must included the private property owner on his land or land he controls.  Same exceptions as in the UUW.



#13 cybermgk

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 01:46 PM

 

Did you read the link at the DNR site I posted???

 

 

You're misunderstanding my point completely.

 

I'm talking about the "fix", not the current law.

 

Past bill have only included CCL holders and LEO's.  The LEO's got their carve out earlier this year.

 

The "fix" must included the private property owner on his land or land he controls.  Same exceptions as in the UUW.

 

exactly


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#14 speedbump

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 03:58 PM

Did you read the link at the DNR site I posted???

 
You're misunderstanding my point completely.
 
I'm talking about the "fix", not the current law.
 
Past bill have only included CCL holders and LEO's.  The LEO's got their carve out earlier this year.
 
The "fix" must included the private property owner on his land or land he controls.  Same exceptions as in the UUW.
Agreed, plus CCL holders while hunting or fishing - period - should be good to carry, and anyone on private property...owners or with permission.

Edited by speedbump, 24 October 2019 - 04:03 PM.

"The struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, or it may be both. But it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will."

~Frederick Douglass~

#15 FST_Kent

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 04:16 PM

If you cold pass that along to the Senator it would be appreciated.

 

I would have to pull up the DNR's study from earlier this century for the exact numbers, but over 90% of hunters hunt on another's private property. 

 

Just because one has a CCL or is an off duty LEO shouldn't give them more rights while a guest on another's land.



#16 speedbump

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 04:25 PM

Agreed. The IDNR spokesman there said 96% of Illinois hunting lands are private property. When I stated my case - and the IDNR guy replied - I said, "Senator, how 'bout we fix that?" He instructed his staff to make note of it and get to work.

I'm not holding my breath, but I know all the deep Southern Illinois legislators agree. Some didn't know about the prohibition against even CCL holders carrying on their own property in archery season.
"The struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, or it may be both. But it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will."

~Frederick Douglass~

#17 FST_Kent

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 04:41 PM

Some didn't know about the prohibition against even CCL holders carrying on their own property in archery season.

 

 

Neither do most of the older farmers around me.  They all said the same thing.  If the DNR has a problem, I'll be more than happy to take it up with them down at the court house.






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