a letter from obama

[raiven]

Dear ( )

 

Thank you for contacting me regarding H.R. 297, the NICS Improvement Act. I appreciate knowing of your concern about the potential implications of this proposal.

 

This bill requires federal agencies to provide information to the U.S. Attorney General regarding anyone who would be prohibited from purchasing a firearm under current law. As a result, it does not affect all citizens but only those who due to their criminal background or mental health issues would be prohibited from purchasing a firearm under federal law.

 

I believe we can respect the rights of law-abiding gun owners and sportsmen and still enact commonsense measures to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. I support efforts to ensure that criminals, terrorists, and those who have been adjudicated to be mentally deficient do not have access to firearms. While the NICS Improvement Act has not been introduced in the Senate, my goal is to ensure that our background checks include all information relevant to those prohibited from owning guns in order to keep guns out of the wrong hands. I expect that to be done without infringing upon the privacy of law abiding gun owners.

 

Thank you for contacting me. Please do not hesitate to contact me in the future.

 

 

Sincerely,

 

Barack Obama

United States Senator

[gravyboy77]

I support efforts to ensure that criminals, terrorists, and those who have been adjudicated to be mentally deficient do not have access to firearms.

 

Now go and read my post in the backroom about who exactly Alabama calls a terrorist.

[raiven]

yea Ive read that they have been teaching that to the police by the feds as who is terrorists right wingers,cristains,home schoolers,gunowners,miltas,anyone who mentions references to the constitution i was hearing all this and reading the police phamlets on this matter they went as far as saying the founding fathers were terrorists .

[ckm]

yea Ive read that they have been teaching that to the police by the feds as who is terrorists right wingers,cristains,home schoolers,gunowners,miltas,anyone who mentions references to the constitution i was hearing all this and reading the police phamlets on this matter they went as far as saying the founding fathers were terrorists .

 

Could you post a link, scanned image, or other reference for these claims?

[raiven]

you will have to give me i little time to find it to post.

[raiven]

<H2 align=center>FBI Pamphlet - Who's a Terrorist?</H2>http://www.welfarestate.com/pamphlet/fbi-front.jpghttp://www.welfarestate.com/pamphlet/fbi-side.jpg

Right along side those who have Nuclear, Chemical, and Biological Weapons of Mass Destruction, they also have terrorist groups such as:

 

Those of "Christian Identity" <LI>Those who "Make Numerous references to US Constitution" <LI>Those who "Request authority for stop" <LI>Those who are "defenders of the US Constitution" <LI>Those who have "Marxist philosophy" <LI>Those who support "Animals Rights" <LI>and don't forget "Lone Individuals"

 

http://www.welfarestate.com/pamphlet/fbi-leaf2.jpg

 

Back to Welfare State http://www.welfarestate.com/pamphlet/ this a real phahmplet that police use from the training from the feds.

[Federal Farmer]

Well, they can ship all of PeTA to Gitmo...would make my day.

[raiven]

they will ship all of us if they can to gitmo.

[SmershAgent]

It's still hard to imagine that the scanned document is real.

 

I know it is, but it's horrifying.

[Blaster]

Those who are "defenders of the US Constitution"

[ilphil]

Damn...I'm a Christian, pro-lifer, who loves the Constitution.

I never realized how dangerous that makes me to the government.

 

Freaking idiots...

[45superman]

Those who are "defenders of the US Constitution"

Seems like I swore an oath, long ago, to be one of those. I'm no longer in the organization that required that oath, but I also don't remember being released from the oath.

 

Sometimes I can't help but believe that parts of the government would like to create a self-fulfilling prophecy of insurgency.

 

They may get their wish, but I'm not sure they'll like how it turns out.

[Ashdump]

Damn...I'm a Christian, pro-lifer, who loves the Constitution.

I never realized how dangerous that makes me to the government.

 

Freaking idiots...

Me too!

Kruchev was right, America will destroy itself from within. America is her own worst enemy.

[raiven]

im sorry that i had to post that but someone ask me if i had proof well thats it they been sending them out through the country this is just the begining on whats to come on the crack down on our rights to get us to fall in with the u.n .

[raiven]

i would advise evryone make a copy or put the main page as a favorite for a future record if someone doesnt believe you.and show it to them for proof.

[Ashdump]

i would advise evryone make a copy or put the main page as a favorite for a future record if someone doesnt believe you.and show it to them for proof.

 

Where can one obtain an actual hard copy?

[Air Commando]

yea Ive read that they have been teaching that to the police by the feds as who is terrorists right wingers,cristains,home schoolers,gunowners,miltas,anyone who mentions references to the constitution i was hearing all this and reading the police phamlets on this matter they went as far as saying the founding fathers were terrorists .

 

Well they always say 'One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter'. During the Revolutionary War the Brits considered our guys to be terrorists because of the gueriila tactics they used. I think it's absurd for police to be taught this type of stuff though. I think if you rolled right winger, christian, home schooler, etc all together then you may have to worry a little, but then it sounds like you're living in a compound and you have an arsenal anyway and some crazy guy leading you.

 

The pamphlet also said commiting crimes in the name of, which hopefully no one here is doing. So by not commiting any crime you are engaging the system in the way it was intended, through debate and petition.

[Ashdump]

I think if you rolled right winger, christian, home schooler, etc all together then you may have to worry a little, but then it sounds like you're living in a compound and you have an arsenal anyway and some crazy guy leading you.

 

Is that so? I think all of those things are noble. As a matter of fact, the system being as it is today, the Founders would prefer a generation of right wing Christian home schooled gun owners to get this country back to it's founded principles. Some crazy guy/s leading us is what we currently have now, IMO.

[mack69]

From KEEP AND BEAR ARMS

 

"Public Servants" Going After "Constitutional Terrorists"?

 

by Angel Shamaya

 

November 14, 2001

 

KeepAndBearArms.com -- The Phoenix Federal Bureau of Investigation created a flyer some time back during Clinton's Presidency, asking the recipients to help them fight domestic terrorism. I received one of these flyers this past weekend at the Arizona "Freedom in the 21st Century" gathering. The Maricopa County Sheriff's Office (Greater Phoenix, Arizona) and the Maricopa County Attorney were placed on the flyer, as well -- before they saw the actual wording of the flyer -- in an effort by the FBI to "work jointly with local law enforcement."

 

Called the Joint Terrorism Task Force, the program was created, presumably, to help preserve the American way of life. This flyer was created -- by the feds -- to disseminate information about who the bad guys might be. However, its wording made it look like a disinformation campaign to paint at least a few groups of Real Americans as domestic terrorists. Among other things, the FBI was asking people:

 

"If you encounter any of the following, Call the Joint Terrorism Task Force":

 

"defenders of the US Constitution against federal government and the UN"

 

[That describes many civil liberties groups and most gun rights and American Sovereignty groups in existence -- and, by extension, their members.]

 

"Groups of individuals engaging in para-military training"

 

[such as, perhaps, shooting your semi-automatic "assault weapon" with some friends out in the desert?"]

 

Also being sought are "Common Law Movement Proponents" who

 

"Request authority for a stop"

 

[That's illegal now?]

 

"Make numerous references to the US Constitution"

 

[That's illegal now?]

 

"Attempt to 'police the police'"

 

[That's illegal now?]

 

And let's not forget the other potential "domestic terrorists" being sought. We really need to watch out for these people:

 

"Lone Individuals"

 

[Do you meet that description?]

 

"Rebels"

 

[Know any gun rights activist who doesn't have at least a touch of rebel pumping through the old bloodstream?]

 

Be sure and notice the following two things on the flyer, as well:

 

1) There is NOT ONE MENTION of "Islamic Fundamentalists" anywhere.

 

2) Defenders of the US Constitution and the common law from which it grew are being classified on the same level as the bottom-feeding Skinheads, Nazis and the KKK.

 

 

READ THE FLYER FOR YOURSELF

 

The flyer is a tri-fold, so you'll have to turn your head sideways to read one of the sections.

 

Front Page Back Page

 

NOTE: The far right side of the above "Front Page" is the actual front of the tri-fold flyer. The far left side of the above "Back Page" -- the part that mentions the 'defenders of the US Constitution' -- is the inside flap... the first thing you see when you open the flyer.

 

 

HISTORY OF THE FLYER

 

According to Terry Chapman of the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office -- whose name is on the flyer as the MCSO contact -- the FBI created the flyer and printed the MCSO and Attorney's Office before the text was approved. He said it was created as a full color brochure to hand out to officers, not for the general public -- and that as soon as he saw it, he urged them not to use it, knowing it had some problems.

 

"The flyer never got off the ground," said Officer Chapman, "but it did manage to make it's way out -- and maybe it's right that it did." He genuinely didn't like this piece of junk, and he showed true concern about my issues with the flyer, too. "We were not happy with it. It was formulated, I think, for legitimate purposes, but it fell on stony ground because of the way it was worded -- the unfortunate profiles that were put in there outraged a number of people who received it."

 

"It's dead in the water as far as I know," said Chapman. "I just can't imagine the FBI putting it out there again. It wasn't for the public. The fact that it's circulating again has gotta be by unofficial sources."

 

Mr. Chapman couldn't name the FBI agent who created the flyer, saying the individual who created it was no longer with the FBI's Phoenix branch, which he described as having "revolving doors." Sheriff's officers didn't like the flyer, either. Said Chapman, "I had a Lieutenant from our own office call me and ask 'Am I on your list?' Am I a threat?' for supporting the constitution?'" Chapman was embarrassed by the seeming targeting of "decent, honorable segments of the community" by the flyer -- he hoped it would never be handed out or go anywhere at all.

 

According to Chapman, the FBI approached the Sheriff's Office saying they wanted to put a flyer together to help local law enforcement raise officer awareness about who to watch out for. They asked for a local contact name and number for use of a flyer they wanted to produce, and because Terry Chapman heads up MCSO Intelligence, he was the likely candidate. Possible lesson for Chapman: don't let yourself get used by misguided federal agents again.

 

The big question: Why the heck does the FBI have someone running around promoting that Defenders of the Constitution (and the common law from which the Constitution was born) are domestic terrorists?

 

The FBI has not returned phone calls on this matter. But suffice it to say that there has been at least one unAmerican weasel running around their camp urging people to turn against We The Real American People. We'd sure like to know this fool's name and location within the Bureau. If you track that information down, please contact me personally; we've got a bone to pick with him and his boss, U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft.

CONTACT THE AGENCIES MENTIONED ON THE FLYER

 

FBI Phoenix Office

 

Website: http://phoenix.fbi.gov/

Email: phoenix@fbi.gov

Special Agent in Charge - Guadalupe Gonzalez

 

FBI's "Civil Rights" Website:

http://phoenix.fbi.gov/contact/fo/phnx/pxcivil.htm

 

FBI's "Counterterrorism" Website:

http://phoenix.fbi.gov/contact/fo/phnx/pxterr.htm

 

FBI Arizona Regional Offices:

http://phoenix.fbi.gov/contact/fo/phnx/pxterrit.htm

 

The Maricopa Sheriff's Office

 

Website: http://www.mcso.org/

 

Feedback form for Sheriff Joe Arpaio:

Via Website: http://www.mcso.org/submenu.asp?file=public

Via Email: complaints@mcso.maricopa.gov, information@mcso.maricopa.gov

 

Maricopa County Attorney

 

Richard M. Romley

http://www.maricopa.gov/attorney/MCAOhome.asp

http://www.maricopa.gov/feedback/feedback.asp

[mack69]

Here's some info on how you can find out if a local officer is part of any JTTF.

JTTF?

 

FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force (JTTF)

 

How can I find out if an officer in my area participates in a JTTF?

 

The concept that the police must be accountable to local oversight was paramount in Portland, Oregon’s withdrawal from the JTTF. Answering public concerns, the city council demanded that the FBI provide the mayor and City Attorney the same security clearances held by the officers on the JTTF. When they could not reach an agreement, the mayor and city council voted to withdraw from the JTTF. It took five years of meetings, letters, and protest by local residents to reach that point. What can you do?

 

Call your local police department and ask. Some local departments publicize their participation on their websites.

If police cannot or will not tell you, contact your local city council or board of selectmen or whoever determines the budget for your local department.

Prepare your questions in advance. The police are more likely to be cooperative if you are courteous and non-confrontational. This does not mean you should take “no” or “I don’t know” as your final answer.

Sample questions:

1. Does the local police department participate in a Joint Terrorism Task Force? (Local departments may participate in other task forces, but this is the only one run by the FBI.)

2. If it does participate, who is the local officer?

3. What investigations are ongoing?

4. How does the JTTF officer report case status to the local department?

5. Does the officer’s local superior have a comparable security clearance?

6. Does funding for the officer come from the local budget or from federal grants?

7. May I see the agreement between the department and the FBI?

If you are denied access to the agreement, file a public record request under your local statute.

If the local government refuses your request, file a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request with the FBI. This may be a last resort since the Department of Justice takes a long time to respond to and fulfill these requests. Sometimes what you receive is incomplete or heavily redacted.

[raiven]

i actually have the video of the feds teaching the police and fire man about that calling our founding forefathers terrorists it was upsetting the guys sitting there listening was agreeing with it i would post it if i could.but you can get the video though 911 road to tyranny its in there.

[ckm]

im sorry that i had to post that but someone ask me if i had proof well thats it they been sending them out through the country this is just the begining on whats to come on the crack down on our rights to get us to fall in with the u.n .

 

Don't be sorry. I asked for more substantial proof than hear-say, and you delivered. Well done.

 

I agree with the sentiment that a hard copy should be acquired for future reference. I tried to find an online copy at the phoenix FBI site as well as the national site, to no avail. However, I did do a seach for "constitution" on the FBI's main site , and one of the hits I ran across was a link to their national academy site. on their front page was a list of "guiding principles" and the top one was "Rigorous obedience to the United States Constitution".

 

Even if this phamplet has not been officially printed or endorsed, as according to mack69, it is still good to be aware of its existance.

[raiven]

usally i wont post things whithout some type of proof to back it up i seen a lot of footage of things under u.n mandate from the president all the way to the school boards proghrams and lechtures the big one is by senior bush in front of the u.n assembley abought the new world order he spoke of chilling.