33 replies to this topic

[jobes]

Has anyone had the chance to checkout the America Tactical Imports GSG 1911 (22lr)? Looks like a sweet 1911 plinker. Picking it up next week should be some fun

[Tvandermyde]

if not mistaken, since it is made of white metal, it is illegal in Illinois as it melts below 800 degrees

[Buzzard]

if not mistaken, since it is made of white metal, it is illegal in Illinois as it melts below 800 degrees.

We've been through this discussion before: Anyone hear about this"melting Point"

It's illegal for dealers to sell white metal guns, but is it illegal to OWN them?

I don't know. Todd, what's your take on this?

[Tvandermyde]

I don't see it being illegal to OWN one. But since it's a handgun, it has to come through a dealer to get here legally. Once here you can't sell or give it to another person, but maybe, we need to drop the melting point to say 750 instead of 800. Hmmmmmm I feel a bill coming on.

[kurt555gs]

I don't see it being illegal to OWN one. But since it's a handgun, it has to come through a dealer to get here legally. Once here you can't sell or give it to another person, but maybe, we need to drop the melting point to say 750 instead of 800. Hmmmmmm I feel a bill coming on.

Wood's Metal has a melting point of 158 degrees F. I suggest dropping the melting point to say, 155F.

[Buzzard]

I don't see it being illegal to OWN one. But since it's a handgun, it has to come through a dealer to get here legally. Once here you can't sell or give it to another person, but maybe, we need to drop the melting point to say 750 instead of 800. Hmmmmmm I feel a bill coming on.

I'd say a "melting point" bill is a great idea. Perhaps some manufacturers would offer their input as to an acceptable melting point standard that would make their products legal to sell in Illinois.

[Bud]

went looking and found this on a GunBroker forum:

ATI GSG 1911 (.22lr)



I just gave American Tactical Imports a call and got an update on their GSG 1911. They have not released their pistol anywhere else in the world yet, which means we'll be getting some of the first ones, stateside. Their planned release date is late November/early December of this year, the pistol will be coming with 1 magazine and a 2 yr warranty. They've designed it to be fully interchangeable with other 1911 parts, specifically grips, safeties, back straps and magazines. The specs are as follows:

Model: 1911
Caliber: .22lr
Capacity: 10+1
Barrel Length: 5"
Action: SA
Front Sight: Fixed
Rear Sight:
Overall Length: 8.5"
Weight: Approximately 39.5 oz
Grips: Plastic Panel
Material: Steel Slide - Steel Frame
Finish: Blued
Grooves: Rear 6
Extractor: External

[Tvandermyde]

Thanks bud.

I had a run in with a gun dealer that I posted here where I boughta MAC 10 at auction and got the run around about the waiting period.

After making me go through all thathe complained about a new 1911 in 22 that he looked up and got the tech specs on them and they melt at 750 so he can't sell them. he then complained to me about the law, but WOULDN"T TAKE MY EXPLINATION NOR the court case or the copy of the law about the waiting period. So someone else has a 1911 -- .22LR that is made out of white metal that can't be sold. I just assumed it was this one. Sorry about that guys.

[Buzzard]

Bud:

Thanks for the update!! I'd love to see someone get one of these guns and give it an honest review.

Todd:

The "other" gun I believe you're speaking of is the Chiappa. I can easily see how you may have thought the GSG 1911 is also a white metal gun. I've seen it offered at $395 - which is comparable to the Chiappa. I wonder what the quality is on this gun? I would think fairly good, given the fact that it's made in Germany.

[Bud]

Bud:

Thanks for the update!! I'd love to see someone get one of these guns and give it an honest review.

Todd:

The "other" gun I believe you're speaking of is the Chiappa. I can easily see how you may have thought the GSG 1911 is also a white metal gun. I've seen it offered at $395 - which is comparable to the Chiappa. I wonder what the quality is on this gun? I would think fairly good, given the fact that it's made in Germany.

Just Google it, there are a lot of favorable reviews. There are a number for sale on GunBroker at/or about $300. The Chiappa is banned in a number of states besides Illinois for a similar reason.

The reasoning behind the minimum temp melt law is sound. A weapon with a melt below 800 degrees will not withstand a lot of modern day pressures and there have been numerous injuries and even deaths because of zinc alloy guns. Lorcin, Ravens, Davis Cobras, and Bryco Jennings are all guns that have exploded and caused injuries and deaths. All are zinc alloy guns.

[mstrat]

I have the GSG 1911 .22.

One word to describe it: love

Seriously though.. it's my favorite range gun. Unlike previous 1911 .22's other companies (*cough*Chiappa*garbage*cough*) have tried to make, this one is actually a solid, high quality pistol.

Here's a few quirks about it:
- it's picky about ammo, but in my experience, all 22 semis are. But i've had great success with Federal bulk and CCI minimags.
- The pot metal barrel bushing is garbage. A lot of people have had them break (which, if you're at a public range, likely means you lose the recoil spring too). ATI and/or GSG are starting, or planning to start, putting steel barrel bushings on them. If you get one with the cheap pot metal, though, don't fret. You have two excellent choices: 1) Contact ATI and they'll send you a steel replacement. I got a replacement in a few days for free and with zero fuss (mine never broke, by the way, i just wanted to play it safe). Or 2) you can just put any ol' 1911 barrel bushing on there. It'll fit just fine.
- The recoil cachedisk thing (or whatever they're called) that comes with it will wear out after a few thousand rounds. But a rubber washer works fine as a replacement.
- To field strip it, you have to take out a hex screw. Also (not really a quirk, just FYI) the recoil spring has a tapered end, so make reassembling, be sure you put it back with the wider end toward the muzzle.

This may sound like a lot of complaining or something - but it's not. These are all *tiny* little issues, compared to how great a .22 1911 this is. It's by far the best that's ever come along, and I love it. I'm just pointing out these things to give you a heads-up and hopefully save you a little time or worry down the road.

Edit: by the way, there's a guy over at another forum (THR i think) that's put around 10k rounds through it and still has nothing bad to say about it. Mine only has about 4-5k through it now, but still no issues. And it's far more accurate than I am.

[Buzzard]

I have the GSG 1911 .22.

One word to describe it: love

**edited for brevity**

This may sound like a lot of complaining or something - but it's not. These are all *tiny* little issues, compared to how great a .22 1911 this is. It's by far the best that's ever come along, and I love it. I'm just pointing out these things to give you a heads-up and hopefully save you a little time or worry down the road.

Thanks for the great report, Mstrat!! I asked and you delivered!!

I do have a few questions though. I got this picture off the 'net. Does the gun really come with skeletonized trigger and hammer, adjustable trigger stop, beavertail safety, arched mainspring housing and the sights pictured? This sure looks like a great gun with nice features for just $300! Hard to believe!

Also the same source I got the picture from says it has wood grips. Does it come with plastic or wood grips?

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[jobes]

The model I order is the black plastic grips with the Faux Suppressor.

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[jkrzos]

Howdy,

Just bought one off Glocktalk for $315.00 + 20.00 for shipping from Colorado. I checked out the Chiappi/ATI gsg1911.
I decided on the GSG1911. I'll let you all know after a range session.

jkrzos

[mstrat]

I do have a few questions though. I got this picture off the 'net. Does the gun really come with skeletonized trigger and hammer, adjustable trigger stop, beavertail safety, arched mainspring housing and the sights pictured? This sure looks like a great gun with nice features for just $300! Hard to believe!

Also the same source I got the picture from says it has wood grips. Does it come with plastic or wood grips?

Yea, that picture is accurate - wood grips, the skeletonized trigger and hammer, and green dot sights. Mine is exactly like Buzzard's picture.
I haven't seen the one Jobes posted (with rail and black grips)

The rear sight is adjustable left and right. It comes with 3 front sights of different heights. I stuck with the middle one.

The ambi safety is plastic and feels a bit flimsy. I may try to replace it eventually. But since this obviously isn't a carry gun, I haven't worried about it too much since the safety rarely gets used.

I haven't adjusted the trigger, or the trigger on any 1911 for that matter - so I can't really answer that. Sorry.

[jobes]

Lots of rimfire forums are really talking about this gun. Supposedly 80% is interchangeable 1911. Sure will be nice to practice weekly without spending 80-100 bucks at each range visit.

Also, Christopher, a representative of ATI had this to say about the melting point.

If you have this dealer call me I will provide for him the document from the manufacturer in Germany stating that the GSG 1911 pistol has a melting point temperature of greater than 800 degrees F. Of course we did this research and provided the info to our distributors, but some people still make up their own rules.

There are 5 states with melting point laws, MN, MA, HI, SC & IL. The GSG 1911 has a melting point above 800 but below 900, so it is legal for sale in IL, SC & HI, as their melting points are 800 degrees F and below. MA is 900 degrees F and MN is 1000 degrees F.

[Buzzard]

Howdy,

Just bought one off Glocktalk for $315.00 + 20.00 for shipping from Colorado. I checked out the Chiappi/ATI gsg1911.
I decided on the GSG1911. I'll let you all know after a range session.
jkrzos

Can't wait!! I feel a gun purchase comin' on!!

[jobes]

Well got her home tonight and first thing a field strip to get the factory gunk out. This is my first 1911 so it feels rather chunky in my hands. It's big and extremely solid. Not like a cheap knockoff or anything. Different to take down but straightforward. Strange screw that needs to come out first to remove the slide stop then along with a second spin too. The magazine is very well constructed and of metal.

Cant wait to see how it performs at the range tomorrow.


One with the fake suppressor

[mstrat]

Nice!
Thanks for the update.

This reminds me, here's a couple pictures of mine, just for fun. You can see it's more beat-up (or "more loved" as I like to say). The frame is more grey than green - it's just a bad pic.
No rail, and brown rather than black grips.. but otherwise it looks like the same pistol.

[KBKGN60]

I've recently become aware of the Chiappa, GSG and eventual Colt/Umarex .22 Cal 1911 style pistols.

As an FYI, here's an example of denied warranty coverage by ATI on a GSG defect in the state of Minnesota. I assume we can expect the same here...

http://www.mnguntalk...&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

It's a shame as this seems like an nice .22 Cal 1911 replica.

[Buzzard]

I've recently become aware of the Chiappa, GSG and eventual Colt/Umarex .22 Cal 1911 style pistols.

As an FYI, here's an example of denied warranty coverage by ATI on a GSG defect in the state of Minnesota. I assume we can expect the same here...

http://www.mnguntalk...&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

It's a shame as this seems like an nice .22 Cal 1911 replica.

Welcome to the forum, KBKGN60. I've been looking at this gun with some interest. After reading the entire thread concerning the damaged gun - I believe that ATI did try to resolve the issue as best they could, considering the circumstances. Some distributor shipped their gun to a state where it wasn't legal to be sold. That's not their fault. ATI did offer to issue a "credit" for the purchase. What else could they do? Calling this situation "a denied warranty" really doesn't describe what happened in this situation - in my opinion.

'1000' wrote:

Update: On 9-20-2010 I posted .jpg of a ATI 1911 .22 cal firearm that blew up. Our customer came in with the firearm to show us. I called ATI and my wholesale representatives to see what could be done to help my customer out. I told A.T.I. That we should take care of our customer right away to keep him happy so the we could avoid any legal actions from him.( My customer was really nice about the whole thing and didn't say I'm going to sued you and A.T.I., because Metal fragments hit me in the face.) At first ATI was very heplful in the first 2 hours of calling them. They said they would send out a UPS pick up tag and shipp a new firearm out a.s.a.p.. A.T.I called my customer up the same day and was really nice to him and told him everything would be taken care of. However the next day I got a call form A.T.I. Representative saying that they would not shipp a replacement firearm out and the only thing they would to is to give me a credit for the firearm and said that this firearm was not legal in Minnesota, I ask if A.T.I. if they could send a AT92F 15RD 4.3" BL FS to keep the customer happy, A.T.I. said NO. So my next step was to call my customer up and tell him that my wholesale rep. from Ellett Brothers and I would give him a MKIII SS Ruger for him trouble. He was really happy with this. The long and short of this is that A.T.I. Customer service SUCK'S."

I also believe it was wishful thinking on the part of this FFL to ask for what would be a more expensive gun as a settlement on the warranty claim. Again, I believe ATI did the appropriate thing in offering a credit for the purchase. And hopefully, the next time a gun that wasn't illegal in MN would be chosen for purchase. Claiming that "A.T.I. Customer service SUCK'S" is uncalled for and way over the top.

[mstrat]

I've recently become aware of the Chiappa, GSG and eventual Colt/Umarex .22 Cal 1911 style pistols.

As an FYI, here's an example of denied warranty coverage by ATI on a GSG defect in the state of Minnesota. I assume we can expect the same here...

http://www.mnguntalk...&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

It's a shame as this seems like an nice .22 Cal 1911 replica.

Wow, that's a scary looking defect. Hopefully, and from what i've gleaned from other owners, this looks like an isolated incident. I hope it stays that way.

Also luckily, that failure happened in 17 rounds, indicating it had some sort of crack or other defect straight away - i'd be much more worried about the life and health of mine if that failure happened after thousands of rounds.

It's unfortunate that the customer can't get a replacement, but it sounds like ATI simply can't ship it to MN. They did, however, offer the store a credit, which would allow them to refund the customer. It sounds like a bad situation all around, but I think it might be a little harsh for the store owner to say ATI customer service sucks.

Now... off to the range to put some rounds through mine.

[mstrat]

As an FYI, here's an example of denied warranty coverage by ATI on a GSG defect in the state of Minnesota. I assume we can expect the same here...

By the way, I just did a quick google and found this:
http://forums.1911fo...ad.php?t=283805

There are 5 states with melting point laws, MN, MA, HI, SC & IL. The GSG 1911 has a melting point above 800 but below 900, so it is legal for sale in IL, SC & HI, as their melting points are 800 degrees F and below. MA is 900 degrees F and MN is 1000 degrees F.

And if this is accurate, we shouldn't worry about it here. Seems only MA and MN would have that shipping problem.

[KBKGN60]

Thanks mstrat & Buzzard. Upon re-reading this thread, I, finally, caught jobes' quote of the ATI rep stating that the melting point IS greater than 800 deg F.

So the GSG is legal in Illinois?

Have any been seen in in-state retail shops?

Also, upon re-reading the Minnesota story, I came to realize that ATI simply couldn't send a replacement to that state. However, thinking that the pistol is also illegal in Illinois, my fear was no warranty and even no legal leg to stand in the case of bodily injury due to the metal fracturing during normal use.

While it's still unnerving to read the occasional defect story (the GSG safeties have been known to crack - though I think ATI has a fix, and either a Chiappa or GSG barrel bushing has blown apart), the idea of an affordable-to-shoot, classic styled 1911 is quite appealing. If the GSG is truly legal here, that's great news.

Regards.

[Buzzard]

I'll go out on a limb here and speculate it was a casting flaw that didn't reveal itself until the failure happened. Not to say such a failure would never happen again, I just wouldn't concern myself until there were a few more reports of this happening.

[Buzzard]

Thanks mstrat & Buzzard. Upon re-reading this thread, I, finally, caught jobes' quote of the ATI rep stating that the melting point IS greater than 800 deg F.

So the GSG is legal in Illinois?

Regards.

Here is the pertinent language in Illinois law:

(720 ILCS 5/24-3) (from Ch. 38, par. 24-3)

Sec. 24-3. Unlawful Sale of Firearms.

(A) A person commits the offense of unlawful sale of firearms when he or she knowingly does any of the following:

{h) While holding any license as a dealer, importer, manufacturer or pawnbroker under the federal Gun Control Act of 1968, manufactures, sells or delivers to any unlicensed person a handgun having a barrel, slide, frame or receiver which is a die casting of zinc alloy or any other nonhomogeneous metal which will melt or deform at a temperature of less than 800 degrees Fahrenheit. For purposes of this paragraph, (1) "firearm" is defined as in the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act; and (2) "handgun" is defined as a firearm designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand, and includes a combination of parts from which such a firearm can be assembled.

Therefore, if the GSG 1911 has a melting point above 800 degrees Fahrenheit, it is legal to sell in Illnois.

[mstrat]

So the GSG is legal in Illinois?

Have any been seen in in-state retail shops?

Yes, I bought mine in IL. In Lyons.

(the GSG safeties have been known to crack - though I think ATI has a fix, and either a Chiappa or GSG barrel bushing has blown apart), the idea of an affordable-to-shoot, classic styled 1911 is quite appealing. If the GSG is truly legal here, that's great news.

I hadn't heard of anyone having the safety crack, but I'm not surprised. It's cheap-feeling plastic. Definitely plan to upgrade it at some point.

The barrel bushings have definitely broke for a few people. It's made of cheap pot metal. BUT, newer ones will be (or are being?) shipped with a steel bushing - and even if you get the old one, ATI will send you a steel one completely free. Got mine within a couple days of emailing them. I didn't even have to wait until it broke.

Just got back from the range by the way - put almost a brick of Federal bulk through it with zero problems (except 2 dud rounds, that wouldn't fire after 2 tries). I've mentioned it before, but it's worth restating: If you get one of these, take some time to find ammo it likes. I get at least one FTF/FTE per mag with 3 different types of Winchester, and 1 Remington. But have zero problems with Federal bulk or CCI minimags.

[Buzzard]

I hadn't heard of anyone having the safety crack, but I'm not surprised. It's cheap-feeling plastic. Definitely plan to upgrade it at some point.

Do you know for a fact if this is a plastic version of the standard safety? Can a metal one replace it as an upgrade? I've heard some parts do indeed interchange.

The barrel bushings have definitely broke for a few people. It's made of cheap pot metal. BUT, newer ones will be (or are being?) shipped with a steel bushing - and even if you get the old one, ATI will send you a steel one completely free. Got mine within a couple days of emailing them. I didn't even have to wait until it broke.

How was the bushing to barrel fit - once it was swapped in?? Can an aftermarket bushing be swapped for the factory one and fitted a bit tighter?

Just got back from the range by the way - put almost a brick of Federal bulk through it with zero problems (except 2 dud rounds, that wouldn't fire after 2 tries). I've mentioned it before, but it's worth restating: If you get one of these, take some time to find ammo it likes. I get at least one FTF/FTE per mag with 3 different types of Winchester, and 1 Remington. But have zero problems with Federal bulk or CCI minimags.

Good to know! What's the accuracy like??

[mstrat]

Do you know for a fact if this is a plastic version of the standard safety? Can a metal one replace it as an upgrade? I've heard some parts do indeed interchange.

No, I'm sorry I don't know. I haven't looked into it yet.

How was the bushing to barrel fit - once it was swapped in?? Can an aftermarket bushing be swapped for the factory one and fitted a bit tighter?

It seems ok to my untrained eyes. It has a wee bit of extra space - but i'm no expert.
Any standard 1911 barrel bushing should fit in there ok, but I'm not sure if it's any tighter.

Good to know! What's the accuracy like??

More accurate than I am
And I haven't done any sandbag/rest shooting with it, so it's hard for me to say.
I like the sights that came with it. Not the greatest I've ever used, but far from the worst. They're green dot sights, and I can shoot a LOT easier with them than the black GI sights. It came with 3 front sights too, of different heights. I didn't need to change it though, the middle one puts the round right where i want it.

[jobes]

This was my first 10 out using CCI Velocitor 40gr at 1435FPS at 30'. My second range trip and about 300rds later my group is getting tighter. Out of all my handguns I really do enjoy shooting this bugger. Very fun!