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Resources for Approaching Businesses Who Post "No Carry" Signs

Molly B.

By Molly B.
in Illinois Right to Keep and Carry

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johnsxdm Member

johnsxdm

Posted
Posted

ETA2 - you might want to include "Unlike the materials distributed by certain groups that are 'Demanding Action', these flyers were produced and distributed at the individual expense of Illinois residents and gun owners, not a multi-millionaire from New York"

 

 

My father-in-law has posted in his business to prevent carry. I advised him of the fact that anyone can carry any pistol, and that they do not need to have any training on that weapon or testing with it, and he said 'no way'. People are free to call this spite on my part or whatever they want to, but its a fully factual statement. If you honestly want to suggest training is necessary for safety, its illogical that people can carry weapons that they have never been trained or tested on. This permit does allow that. To suggest people are "fully trained and tested" when they can carry a weapon they literally just picked up without any instruction or testing is simply not the full truth.

I take it that you are a LEO. You are qualified with your duty weapon, but are you or any other LEO's "fully trained and tested" with your off duty weapon?? I bet not! Does that make you unsafe, or are LEO's better than the rest of us? I'd bet, even with my lack of "training" that I would "test" better than 90% of any LEO reguardless of what was put in front of me!
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domin8 Member

domin8

Posted
Posted

ETA2 - you might want to include "Unlike the materials distributed by certain groups that are 'Demanding Action', these flyers were produced and distributed at the individual expense of Illinois residents and gun owners, not a multi-millionaire from New York"

 

 

My father-in-law has posted in his business to prevent carry. I advised him of the fact that anyone can carry any pistol, and that they do not need to have any training on that weapon or testing with it, and he said 'no way'. People are free to call this spite on my part or whatever they want to, but its a fully factual statement. If you honestly want to suggest training is necessary for safety, its illogical that people can carry weapons that they have never been trained or tested on. This permit does allow that. To suggest people are "fully trained and tested" when they can carry a weapon they literally just picked up without any instruction or testing is simply not the full truth.

I take it that you are a LEO. You are qualified with your duty weapon, but are you or any other LEO's "fully trained and tested" with your off duty weapon?? I bet not! Does that make you unsafe, or are LEO's better than the rest of us? I'd bet, even with my lack of "training" that I would "test" better than 90% of any LEO reguardless of what was put in front of me!
I bet your aim is more accurate too.
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III Member

III

Posted
Posted

Ok....I have incorporated some of the comments listed above. Granted, TyGuy no longer has space to add his contact information on this particular layout...but I tend to leave my personal business card along with whatever I am leaving with the business (something to consider Ty).

 

http://i57.tinypic.com/f1gtu9.jpg

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III Member

III

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Whenever it's done if you can email me the psd file I'll add it myself. I'd rather not leave my card. My professional and political lives need to remain separate as I work for a business with domestic and foreign government contracts.

 

 

Tapa-what? Tapatalk.

 

I created a "personal business card" that is separate from my work life. I work in the public sector and need to keep things separate as well.

 

...regardless, I will distribute any source file so others can amend as necessary.

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mauserme Member

mauserme

Posted
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So, in Indiana, Kentucky, Missouri, Iowa, and Wisconsin, businesses that Don't post as gun free zones pay significantly higher insurance rates than comparable businesses that do? None of those states impose your proposed requirements on qualification, and none require as much training as Illinois. This is the first time I've ever heard it suggested that businesses face such a penalty. I'm also struck by your assertion that not posting a sign prohibiting an action amounts to "actively encouraging" it; that's also new to me. Unless I'm missing something, you seem to have defined "actively" as it's opposite.

 

Restaurant and bar owners should be aware of this new obligation not only because of the potential fines but also because of implications to their liability insurance coverage. For example, a restaurant owner's liability insurance may preclude coverage where someone is injured and the restaurant owner has not met its obligations under the new legislation.

http://www.chicagobu...property-owners

 

EMC Insurance Companies, the largest insurer of schools in the state of Kansas, recently announced that it would not be willing to provide policies to schools which allow their teachers or other staff, to carry concealed firearms on school property. The only exception would be for police officers.

http://www.guns.com/...oting-teachers/

 

 

I am not sure what you are talking about as pertains to 'actively'. If you run a business, you are going to need to obtain coverage for whatever circumstances you are permitted to engage in, and this will vary considerably, but it will always be extra cost for anything involving firearms being admitted or present on the premises.

In the same way you get a insurance discount if you send your workers to CPR classes or hold documented training on reducing workplace injuries, teaching people how to lift safely, you report having a smoke/burglar alarm system installed and operable, you hold and document MSDS training.. you will have a extra cost if you introduce weapons into a business that needs to be insured.

 

I am noting this simply because I am simply a practical person. I am not discouraging you from asking anyone to allow weapons in their business, but it does seem strange that I am the only one considering this angle, because its probably the most relevant aspect to business people.

 

If you want convince business owners esp. in urban or suburban areas, the glossy brochures and emotion laced with statistics that you find very interesting, are not the way to do it. You need to have some sort of contact with insurers first and foremost to determine what their hit is going to be, and then - if accurate - make the case that the insurance cost will be less than the loss to their customer base and income. Until you do that, anyone with business acumen is going to politely accept the brochure and thank you for their time, and maybe later discuss it with their insurer.

 

25 years ago you did not get a credit check to take out a insurance policy.. now its fairly standard if not nearly universal, and the actuarials are already either refusing to write these policies or looking at it as a new source of revenue.

 

Chris, I'm going to ask that you keep more to the topic of this thread but, before I do, I hope to allay some of your concerns.

 

 

The method of setting insurance rates is almost entirely dependant upon statistics developed over the course of years and decades, and not at all based upon assumptions about what might occur under certain circumstances. At least not on the part of successful insurance companies. Given that Illinois has no statistics in this area insurers will necessarily look to other states' experience for guidance.

 

Though I have no reason to doubt what Don posted, insurers in states with which I am familiar generally do not differentiate between establishments that allow carry and those that do not. It is simply a non-issue in my experience, and I would expect that to be carried forward to Illinois until sufficient data can be collected for our state. That will likely take decades and, if our experience follows the lead set by the states Don mentioned, we have something to look forward to.

 

Let's keep it on topic now, but feel free to start an insurance thread of your own, if you wish. I'd gladly contribute more to a better understanding of a topic about which there are so many misconceptions. and downright ill informed opinions.

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SiliconSorcerer Member

SiliconSorcerer

Posted
Posted

Here is a final Draft for everyone to review and comment on. I will look at pricing at places like vista print. Was thinking to get this placed on some glossy card stock.

 

http://i59.tinypic.com/2v3h35h.png

Here's my comment, put me down for 250 of them and let me know where to send the cash!

 

This is excellent!

AND Thank you for posting this in a very usable way that anyone can have this done in the most affordable and convenient manner.

 

I've purchased my last 10+ cars from the same dealership and purchased a used car for my youngest daughter from them at there secondary location last week and there were not any signs. I however went to the main location to purchase a new car for my other daughter and there are signs on the door. I mentioned this to the salesperson when I walked in and while a deal was on paper I told him I had to consider if I could purchase this new car walked out.

I want to fax or drop of a letter Monday, I have all the paperwork in hand I'm sure I can go another dealer with paper in hand and get the same deal.

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III Member

III

Posted
Posted

I think this is a fantastic layout and message. I like it very, very much.

 

If the creators would humor me just a bit, I would like to see an 'X' through the no gun sign on the back - and then I would like to see another version with a '?' on either side of the sign.

 

Here you go ma'am.....not sure if this is what you were envisioning (however, either version does not look appealing to me):

 

http://i59.tinypic.com/2agiuqx.png

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III Member

III

Posted
Posted

Bill, should we make a business card version of this as well?

 

Sorry I've been out of touch the last couple days. Trying to get a lot done. I'm going in for surgery tomorrow morning....blah.

 

That is what I would like to move to next......

 

 

.....good luck on surgery. That is never fun.

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III Member

III

Posted
Posted

FINAL 1/3 Page Brochure (4" x 8" Rack Cards)

If you would like to print this brochure yourself, you can do so online here:

 

 

 

VistaPrint.com

 

You will want to "UPLOAD" the following images to the custom template:

 

 

Front Page: DOWNLOAD

Back Page: DOWNLOAD

 

Here is what the Final Version will look like:

 

http://i57.tinypic.com/2ljg4qt.jpg

 

EDIT: These documents have been revised to incorporate the grammar changes as suggested in post #154 by user domin8

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III Member

III

Posted
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I want to help more if you need it.

 

 

I gotta get some rest for tomorrow, but when I'm out of surgery and laying in extreme pain (sleep apnea surgery....I hear recovery is pretty god awful), I'll shoot some more stuff over to you and we can play around a bit more.

 

I thought it was a damn good team effort.....

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