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teacup grip history?

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#1 Kaeghl

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 10:50 AM

I was asked a while ago what a teacup grip was. I empty-handed a demonstration
of it and asked why they were asking, themselves. It seems that someone found Grandpa's old NRA Basic Handgun Safety Book, but had read on line about how not good a 'teacup grip' was. But turns out, there it was in the book with directions on how to use that grip and it was pictured a couple of times. How come it's used?

Rather than bedazzle them with bullsxxt, I said "Good question, let me find out."

I know things and practices change over time, and better ways of doing things evolve, so okay, we like a better way of gripping the pistol. But what was the history, and why was it preferred then?

Thanks in advance.

Edited by Kaeghl, 11 May 2015 - 10:52 AM.


#2 wtr100

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 11:23 AM

It wasn't until the 60's that shooting with two hands was common at all

id_pistol_m1911_700_06.jpg

FBI1941.jpg

Edited by wtr100, 11 May 2015 - 11:25 AM.

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#3 Teufel Hunden

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 11:33 AM

My bet is that it came from a modified Weaver stance and borrowed from how you would shoot a rifle offhand. Bracing your off elbow against your side and then creating a "platform" to support the pistol with your offhand.

#4 tkroenlein

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 11:49 AM

I think Mr. Weaver developed it. I saw a very neat old pic somewhere of when he rolled out the "new" technique.

#5 tkroenlein

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 11:54 AM

Here it is. :) fcaa50e7950772db5260409c77fb2672.jpg

#6 StogieRob

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 11:59 AM

Somebody who was winning competitions was observed holding his pistol a certain way. Suddenly, if you wanted to win you had to use that grip. If you weren't using that grip, you clearly weren't a "real" competitor...


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#7 Hipshot Percussion

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 12:00 PM

Kind of a cool video of military training use of the 1911 and a spot about the cup and saucer hold.  Everything I've searched for seems to come back to a man named Jelly Bryce and due to his prowess as a shooter, the FBI taught his stance and hold (1920's).  I don't know if it's true, can't find any verification

 


Edited by Hipshot Percussion, 11 May 2015 - 12:00 PM.

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#8 ChicagoRonin70

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 12:35 PM

Kind of a cool video of military training use of the 1911 and a spot about the cup and saucer hold.  Everything I've searched for seems to come back to a man named Jelly Bryce and due to his prowess as a shooter, the FBI taught his stance and hold (1920's).  I don't know if it's true, can't find any verification

 

 

Every time I see this video, it makes me want tracer rounds in my handgun.


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#9 Tango7

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 04:33 PM

I think Mr. Weaver developed it. I saw a very neat old pic somewhere of when he rolled out the "new" technique.


Weaver was a great proponent of the two-handed grip, but his grip involved the "thumb over" technique.

xn935g.png

5p0gm9.jpg


Doing a Google search for "Weaver stance" shows a whole lot of teacups, as well as other grips that aren't the Weaver as I know it.
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#10 Kaeghl

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 06:44 PM

I looked at the photo in the NRA Basic Pistol Safety Book, and it shows a rather large revolver grip held in a teacup, and the hands were the type to wear an extra large glove.

 

A few pages later, a photo of a 'new shooter' using the teacup on a table support from the sitting position. The shooter was a moderately petite lady. Could the teacup have been preferred for any apparent ease of being 'steadier' on the sandbags? Just wondering....



#11 kster

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 07:17 PM

 

Kind of a cool video of military training use of the 1911 and a spot about the cup and saucer hold.  Everything I've searched for seems to come back to a man named Jelly Bryce and due to his prowess as a shooter, the FBI taught his stance and hold (1920's).  I don't know if it's true, can't find any verification

 

 

Every time I see this video, it makes me want tracer rounds in my handgun.

 

as i watch that video, all i can think of is HOLY CRAP EVERYONE'S GETTING FLAGGED.     hilariously at 3:20  the narrator goes "safety precautions apply"  then all the cadets unholster and point their guns towards the instructor.  



#12 bemidji

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 10:11 PM

Here it is. :) fcaa50e7950772db5260409c77fb2672.jpg

 

My ears hurt just looking at that photo . . .


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#13 wtr100

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 07:12 AM

WHAT DID BEMIDJI JUST SAY!!!!!

The other guy with no shirt , spectators look to be forward of the firing line ( could be camera angle ) , no eye pro


Different time wasn't it

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#14 Houndawg

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 07:36 AM

I think Mr. Weaver developed it. I saw a very neat old pic somewhere of when he rolled out the "new" technique.Weaver was a great proponent of the two-handed grip, but his grip involved the "thumb over" technique.Doing a Google search for "Weaver stance" shows a whole lot of teacups, as well as other grips that aren't the Weaver as I know it.


The "thumb over" grip is the proper grip for a revolver.

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#15 wtr100

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 07:44 AM

I think Mr. Weaver developed it. I saw a very neat old pic somewhere of when he rolled out the "new" technique.Weaver was a great proponent of the two-handed grip, but his grip involved the "thumb over" technique.Doing a Google search for "Weaver stance" shows a whole lot of teacups, as well as other grips that aren't the Weaver as I know it.


The "thumb over" grip is the proper grip for a revolver.

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since when?

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#16 Houndawg

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 07:46 AM


 


Kind of a cool video of military training use of the 1911 and a spot about the cup and saucer hold.  Everything I've searched for seems to come back to a man named Jelly Bryce and due to his prowess as a shooter, the FBI taught his stance and hold (1920's).  I don't know if it's true, can't find any verification
 



 
Every time I see this video, it makes me want tracer rounds in my handgun.
 


as i watch that video, all i can think of is HOLY CRAP EVERYONE'S GETTING FLAGGED.     hilariously at 3:20  the narrator goes "safety precautions apply"  then all the cadets unholster and point their guns towards the instructor.  


Safety standards are quite different in military training and combat. I've regularly been on the pointy end of of a rifle or pistol during weapons instruction. And when everybody has a rifle in their hands it's impossible not to sweep or get swept at any given time during the day. On the range where live ammo is involved it's a different story. Then all rules apply.

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#17 wtr100

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 07:48 AM

pass the popcorn please


Edited by wtr100, 12 May 2015 - 07:49 AM.

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#18 Houndawg

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 07:50 AM

I think Mr. Weaver developed it. I saw a very neat old pic somewhere of when he rolled out the "new" technique.Weaver was a great proponent of the two-handed grip, but his grip involved the "thumb over" technique.Doing a Google search for "Weaver stance" shows a whole lot of teacups, as well as other grips that aren't the Weaver as I know it.The "thumb over" grip is the proper grip for a revolver.Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalksince when?


Since forever. I'm talking about the first picture where the weak hand thumb sits on top of the strong hand thumb. It's opposite for pistols.

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#19 Houndawg

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 07:52 AM

pass the popcorn please


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#20 Hoffsoft

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 09:37 AM

Problems?  Jack Weaver can't hear people debating a defunct technique, and I can't find a truckload of tracers to shoot through somebody else's 1911.  :)



#21 Glock23

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 10:23 AM

The "thumb over" grip is the proper grip for a revolver.


Whatever grip works and is effective for the shooter is the proper grip. There is no single "proper" grip for any gun.
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#22 tkroenlein

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 10:30 AM

The "thumb over" grip is the proper grip for a revolver.


Whatever grip works and is effective for the shooter is the proper grip. There is no single "proper" grip for any gun.


With shades of grey. Situating your bones and soft tissue to react consistently to a recoiling gun tends to be pretty similar between shooters given a particular model gun.

#23 barryware

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 11:27 AM

Teacup.jpg


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#24 wtr100

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 11:42 AM

 

a 1911 in a tea cup?

 

BURN THE HERETIC!!!!!


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#25 gangrel

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 03:25 PM

 

 

I think Mr. Weaver developed it. I saw a very neat old pic somewhere of when he rolled out the "new" technique.Weaver was a great proponent of the two-handed grip, but his grip involved the "thumb over" technique.Doing a Google search for "Weaver stance" shows a whole lot of teacups, as well as other grips that aren't the Weaver as I know it.


The "thumb over" grip is the proper grip for a revolver.

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since when?

 

Support hand thumb over your shooting hand thumb and pulling gently downward keeps your shooting hand thumb free of the cylinder on a revolver.  Thumbs forward grip keeps your support hand thumb clear of the slide on a semi-auto.


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#26 Federal Farmer

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Posted 15 May 2015 - 01:05 PM

Unless your hands are really small and the revolver is really big, I don't recommend using the semi-auto thumb grip.


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#27 Jen-in-Normal

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Posted 15 May 2015 - 02:56 PM


Kind of a cool video of military training use of the 1911 and a spot about the cup and saucer hold.  Everything I've searched for seems to come back to a man named Jelly Bryce and due to his prowess as a shooter, the FBI taught his stance and hold (1920's).  I don't know if it's true, can't find any verification
 



 
Every time I see this video, it makes me want tracer rounds in my handgun.


I had to laugh when he said 'lightweight'. :) A different time for sure. A 1911 is hardly light today. I gotta say though, some traces would be fun.



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#28 milq

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Posted 15 May 2015 - 03:55 PM

It's way lighter than swinging an M1 around in close quarters! Cool video....lots of safety violations, but that was a different time.
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#29 Jen-in-Normal

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Posted 16 May 2015 - 07:29 PM

It's way lighter than swinging an M1 around in close quarters! Cool video....lots of safety violations, but that was a different time.


Hehehe. You got me there.


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