TriumphRider Posted May 30, 2013 at 04:24 AM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 04:24 AM This goes out to Todd V. and everyone else who has a voice in the Illnoise Legislature. I've seen the bill that prohibits CCW in any establishment that sells alcohol, or serves alcohol, or is even near somewhere that once thought alcohol was a chemical. These restrictions prohibit actions of folks who have NO control over the actions of the establishments. I propose that the new CCW law prohibits the actions of the people who desire to give their hard-earned money to these same establishments. Banning CCW in a restaurant that has +50% of receipts in alcohol sales is insane. Let's instead propose that if someone is carrying a weapon, then they need not to imbibe in alcohol consumption. That way, the actions of the carrying individual is controlled, rather that the actions of the establishment. I was raised with the principal that if you drink, you do not carry a weapon. If you carry a weapon, your responsibility is so great, that drinking alcohol reduces your capability to respond. Drink... fine.. but don't carry a weapon. My point is =- The new CCW law in Illnoise needs to reflect that CCW carriers should be allowed to carry anywhere despite the activities of the establishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm.stites Posted May 30, 2013 at 04:28 AM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 04:28 AM good luck trying to get that thru their heads with 2 days left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlockShooter Posted May 30, 2013 at 04:29 AM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 04:29 AM Thank you, and I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriumphRider Posted May 30, 2013 at 04:29 AM Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 04:29 AM Thanks. It's simple, so it might not be accepted widely... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastiff Posted May 30, 2013 at 04:32 AM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 04:32 AM I agree, but I don't expect common sense from the ILGA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spu69 Posted May 30, 2013 at 04:32 AM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 04:32 AM It makes way too much sense for it to become law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarandFan Posted May 30, 2013 at 05:23 AM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 05:23 AM Triumph ... it's best to not prohibit carry in restaurants or bars, and just have the limit at "legal intoxication" which is 0.08 in most states. That said, in the IL bill I believe the difference is "restaurants" versus "bars" ... which is a decent compromise. I know scores of perfectly responsible people (including LEOs) who carry while having a drink with their dinner. If you are uncomfortable with that, then fine. Don't do it. I, however, am perfectly comfortable with it and where I live it's perfectly legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepercaprice1 Posted May 30, 2013 at 07:55 AM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 07:55 AM I agree with GF. If less than .08 BAC is OK to allow someone to drive a 2 ton hunk of iron at 70mph, I think it's OK to allow them to have a drink with their meal. Intoxicated is something else entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BShawn Posted May 30, 2013 at 08:24 AM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 08:24 AM I've always thought bars being off limits for CCW (or +50% or whatever of alc sales) is stupid. Should a person drink and carry, of course not. I can agree with setting the same regulations that we already have in place governing the use of motor vehicles. .08 BAC being the legal limit. Here's my main catch up. I quit drinking all together (I haven't had a single alcoholic beverage in over five years now), but I still have friends that drink, and some that (as sad as it is) still get completely hammered. Now lets say my friend(s) calls me up ~ "hey Shawn, can you be my designated driver for tonight?". So why should I not be allowed to carry to protect myself (and or him) if I wont be consuming ANY alcohol at all. Just because the establishment is a bar, or makes more than 50% of their revenue off of alcohol? That has got to be one of the most stupid things I've ever heard... I guess any of my drinking friends will be pretty sad to hear that no longer will I be a D/D for them, or they'll have to find a non "bar", or somewhere else where more than 50% of their sales aren't alcohol (if they wants to get hammered with me as their D/D)... Though if you're looking for this to change for whatever we're about to get into law I would not hold your breath as it's simply not going to happen. I guess this is just one of the things we'll have to "hope" can be changed later on. I know many places (states) where it is just as it SHOULD be, where you can still carry in a bar (or if sales are more than x% of sales of alcohol), so long as you don't exceed the legal BAC limit that the state has set forth for it's motor vehicle code (or even if they had one "special set" for CCWP [wouldn't bother me since I don't drink]). Like if they made it .04 (like CDL holders 'limit'), ok so be it. I do agree that a place shouldn't be off limits especially for these reasons alone... Further more so if the establishment doesn't desire to ban firearms on their property, they have no choice when something like this is law So, don't hold the breath on this one, place it on the "to do list" for the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockerXX Posted May 30, 2013 at 08:40 AM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 08:40 AM just have the limit at "legal intoxication" which is 0.08 in most states. Just an FYI the NTSB just recommended lowering that to 0.05, if the carry law is tied to the DUI definitions it will lower as well... And 0.05 can be as little as two drinks or beers for the average adult... Not that I'm advocating any drinking while driving or carrying but if the limit is lowered the effects are sure to be felt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmyers Posted May 30, 2013 at 10:14 AM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 10:14 AM I agree, if you drink alcohol, no carry. My wife and I don't drink, but there is nice little bar/restaurant that we eat at a couple times a month. Why should I be prohibited from going there just because they serve alcohol? They have good food and oh yah, did I mention we DON"T drink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afdglock45 Posted May 30, 2013 at 10:23 AM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 10:23 AM .05 is insane. What are we 2 years old? This nanny state stuff is tyranny. Whatever happened to personal responsibility & isn't it partially why we are in this fight? In the states that allow CC in bars is there a large amount of shootings in bars? No. I believe the statistics show crime decreases. I got news for a lot of people, some of us are responsible adults that can meet friends in a bar & not get hammered. If im in a bar with my wife does my desired level of protection decrease? I get tired of elected officials telling me what I can do & when I can do it This rant does not endorse drinking too excess & carrying a weapon. What if you work in a bar or deliver to a bar? Im an adult let me decide whats good for me.Does the 2nd say "The right to bear arms...as long as you dont drink"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAS3987 Posted May 30, 2013 at 10:43 AM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 10:43 AM I don't frequent bars, but have been a DD before. If this law passes, there will be a list of places I won't go. I'm not going to go through the trouble of getting this IL permit to carry, and then purposely go to places that are gun free zones and leave my weapon in the vehicle. No thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afdglock45 Posted May 30, 2013 at 10:52 AM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 10:52 AM I don't frequent bars, but have been a DD before. If this law passes, there will be a list of places I won't go. I'm not going to go through the trouble of getting this IL permit to carry, and then purposely go to places that are gun free zones and leave my weapon in the vehicle. No thank you! Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NukemJim Posted May 30, 2013 at 11:05 AM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 11:05 AM In some states like Michigan, legal limit for alcohol if CCWing is 0.02 blod alcohol. Lets worry about geting a shall issue, whole state law first and then the details. NukemJim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockerXX Posted May 30, 2013 at 11:10 AM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 11:10 AM Lets worry about geting a shall issue, whole state law first and then the details. Details are just as important, because no matter how many times people say "we can work out the details later" it's almost certainly going to take years if not decades to ATTEMPT work out those details, with zero guarantee that we will get anywhere with those attempts, all the while the law as written stands and is in force... It took a Federal Appeals Court order before we had a valid chance at getting a carry bill at all, and it's taken Supreme Court rulings to change many of IL's other gun laws... Changing whatever gets singed into law is simply not going to be easy based on previous history, and will likely not come unless and until we get another favorable high court ruling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockman Posted May 30, 2013 at 11:56 AM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 11:56 AM In some states like Michigan, legal limit for alcohol if CCWing is 0.02 blod alcohol. Lets worry about geting a shall issue, whole state law first and then the details. NukemJim If you want to put the brakes on any provision about alcohol and carry, just make any proposed law apply to police officers. Law will fail, done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylok Posted May 30, 2013 at 12:11 PM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 12:11 PM I'd be fine with carry in resturaunts but not actual bars and a .08 BAC just like driving a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sctman800 Posted May 30, 2013 at 12:16 PM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 12:16 PM I haven't had a drink for over twenty years but still like Red Lobster, Olive Garden etc. So that will be annoying. Jim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abolt243 Posted May 30, 2013 at 12:21 PM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 12:21 PM Again, we're trying to regulate things instead of the action of people. Don't tie it to restaurants, or bars, or guns, or % of sales (a nebulous figure for the occasional customer at best) or any THING else. If the PERSON takes the actions necessary to raise his/her BAC above a particular level (.08 or .05 or .02, whatever) then carrying a firearm under the concealed carry law is unlawful. Period. Whether he/she carries in a bar or a Wendy's or a Red Lobster or a church. I'll reiterate an oft repeated fact. Indiana has NO restrictions on bar carry or carry while drinking. Where's the news reports on drunks killing people or shooting off their weapons to celebrate a Colt's victory?? Doesn't happen.People forget, the citizens that go to all the trouble to get licenses to carry a defensive firearm are the most responsible people in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot1 Posted May 30, 2013 at 12:38 PM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 12:38 PM Again, we're trying to regulate things instead of the action of people. Don't tie it to restaurants, or bars, or guns, or % of sales (a nebulous figure for the occasional customer at best) or any THING else. If the PERSON takes the actions necessary to raise his/her BAC above a particular level (.08 or .05 or .02, whatever) then carrying a firearm under the concealed carry law is unlawful. Period. Whether he/she carries in a bar or a Wendy's or a Red Lobster or a church. I'll reiterate an oft repeated fact. Indiana has NO restrictions on bar carry or carry while drinking. Where's the news reports on drunks killing people or shooting off their weapons to celebrate a Colt's victory?? Doesn't happen.People forget, the citizens that go to all the trouble to get licenses to carry a defensive firearm are the most responsible people in the country. ^ Thanks abolt243! That's exactly what I was thinking!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoktorPaimon Posted May 30, 2013 at 01:21 PM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 01:21 PM Again, we're trying to regulate things instead of the action of people. Don't tie it to restaurants, or bars, or guns, or % of sales (a nebulous figure for the occasional customer at best) or any THING else. If the PERSON takes the actions necessary to raise his/her BAC above a particular level (.08 or .05 or .02, whatever) then carrying a firearm under the concealed carry law is unlawful. Period. Whether he/she carries in a bar or a Wendy's or a Red Lobster or a church. I'll reiterate an oft repeated fact. Indiana has NO restrictions on bar carry or carry while drinking. Where's the news reports on drunks killing people or shooting off their weapons to celebrate a Colt's victory?? Doesn't happen.People forget, the citizens that go to all the trouble to get licenses to carry a defensive firearm are the most responsible people in the country. Exactly! We shouldn't be giving ground based onf fears of what might happen. The other side has always been terrified of every step the gun rights movement has made, they've always gone on and on about how dangerous our latest victory is going to be. It has never panned out. I think that any restrictions on carry while drinking need to apply uniformly across the citizens of the state. That means everyone. Cops included. If we can save just one street light... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzle Posted May 30, 2013 at 01:23 PM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 01:23 PM I'd be fine with carry in resturaunts but not actual bars and a .08 BAC just like driving a car. Ditto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock23 Posted May 30, 2013 at 01:29 PM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 01:29 PM I realize that some people do not drink.. and others have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to mixing alcohol with guns/driving. However, these are your own personal beliefs and morals based upon what you were taught and how your parents chose to raise you. Your beliefs are not the law. I believe in having reasonable legal limitations. Go to any restaurant or bar... look at the people drinking. The chances are VERY good that many of them will get behind the wheel and drive when they leave. And the majority of those that do will be within the legal limits. Some will have had too many, and may or may not get caught. Now, whether drinking or not, within legal limits or not, how many people who carry concealed firearms will EVER need to draw their weapon in self defense or the defense of others, let alone actually pull the trigger. Driving, even completely sober, is exponentially more dangerous than carrying a concealed firearm... so why have legal limits in place for a more dangerous privilege, but completely restrict a legal limit on an inherent right? My $0.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtr100 Posted May 30, 2013 at 01:33 PM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 01:33 PM heck we'll be luck to carry on our own property seriouly - what has the experience of other states with carry and alcohol - seems we don't need to re-invent the wheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianj - now in Kansas Posted May 30, 2013 at 01:54 PM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 01:54 PM Snipped for brevity ... Where's the news reports on drunks killing people or shooting off their weapons to celebrate a Colt's victory?? Doesn't happen... Maybe not with people, but, as I understand it, there are some streetlights in New Jersey that are understandably worried every time our Chicago Police Superintendent has a few too many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneshot Posted May 30, 2013 at 01:59 PM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 01:59 PM I concur with regulating actions of people, I don't drink, but I do find myself in bars every now and then with friends who do; with some of the people you find in there, it would be handy to be able to defend yourself. But yeah, we truly are about to strike midnight on this go round, there are a lot of things we would have liked to have seen with this bill (in fact we made a wish list, that grew very long, a few months ago) and there's only so much that we can expect out of this. I read someone say the other day with reference to martial arts, that when you've obtained your black belt, the journey has just begun. This week, Illinois gun owners will be obtaining their black belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaKoncepts aka CGS Posted May 30, 2013 at 02:02 PM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 02:02 PM I call the alcohol restrictions death to designated drivers (DDD). There will be future amendments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAS3987 Posted May 30, 2013 at 02:04 PM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 02:04 PM I call the alcohol restrictions death to designated drivers (DDD). There will be future amendments. Could this force the DD to wait in the vehicle in the parking lot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scots Posted May 30, 2013 at 02:06 PM Share Posted May 30, 2013 at 02:06 PM What we really need to do is make it illegal to drive your car to any place or parking lot of a place that serves or sells alcohol. Cars and alcohol don't mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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