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People v. Brown - FOID ruled unconstituional in IL District Court


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#331 Molly B.

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 08:05 AM

 35 CONCLUSION ¶ 36 The circuit court’s ruling that section 2(a)(1) of the FOID Card Act is unconstitutional as applied was not necessary to the resolution of this case. Therefore, we remand this cause to the circuit court. We direct that the order entered by the circuit court on February 14, 2018, be vacated. We further direct that the October 16, 2018, judgment order dismissing defendant’s information be vacated and then modified to exclude the ruling that section 2(a)(1) is unconstitutional. The - 13 -modified order is thereupon to be reentered.

 

37 Vacated and remanded with directions.

 


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#332 Molly B.

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 08:07 AM

JUSTICE KARMEIER, dissenting: ¶ 39 The majority’s decision resolves this appeal based on an issue no one has raised, decides the issue through misapplication of principles we have no reason to discuss, and remands the case to the circuit court for entry of an order that is clearly meritless and serves no purpose. Neither the parties nor the interests of justice will be served by this unexpected and pointless exercise. I therefore respectfully dissent.

 


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#333 Molly B.

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 08:24 AM

Looks like the court punted and sent it back to circuit court.


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#334 THE KING

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 08:25 AM

Basically she passed the buck without making the FOID ACT unconstitutional therefore covering her a**. SMH

Edited by THE KING, 02 April 2020 - 08:26 AM.


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#335 Molly B.

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 08:36 AM

They seem to be saying the circuit court could have dismissed the case against her or found her not guilty, without finding the statute unconstitutional . . .

 

shoooeee that's a doozie.


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#336 davel501

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 08:38 AM

They seem to be saying the circuit court could have dismissed the case against her or found her not guilty, without finding the statute unconstitutional . . .
 
shoooeee that's a doozie.


That's what I read too. She won, we lost.

#337 gunuser17

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 08:40 AM

So the case goes back to the trial court, the opinion is modified as directed by the IL Supreme Court.  The case then goes up on appeal to an intermediate appellate court as to whether the FOID act applies in the home if the State appeals.   Assuming the state appeals, the appellate court either affirms the finding or reverses the trial court and finds that the FOID act does apply in the home.  Then, a potential appeal to IL Supreme Court who could find FOID does not apply in home - ending case.  If Supreme Court finds that FOID does apply in home, then I believe that the trial court could ultimately revisit and re-enter the unconstitutional finding and then that goes up to the Supreme Court again.  A long and winding road.


Edited by gunuser17, 02 April 2020 - 08:47 AM.


#338 MrSmallie

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 08:58 AM

More likely scenario is that trial court grants her a win and the State doesn't object or appeal and everything stays as it is.



#339 burningspear

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 09:04 AM

You are correct.

I believe that Brown is not the vehicle to challenge the constitutionality of the people registration system known as the FOID Act.



#340 Coiled

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 09:35 AM

And once again they dance around the ladder.

#341 ilphil

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 09:46 AM

That poor lady is going to die of old age waiting for this fiasco to finally be settled. 



#342 Molly B.

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 09:54 AM

From my understanding:

the two circuit court judgments are to be vacated and the court shall find Ms. Brown not guilty by claiming the FOID Act does not apply to her in her home - but not on the basis of saying the FOID Act is unconstitutional.


"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#343 crufflesmuth

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 10:03 AM

From my understanding:

the two circuit court judgments are to be vacated and the court shall find Ms. Brown not guilty by claiming the FOID Act does not apply to her in her home - but not on the basis of saying the FOID Act is unconstitutional.

 

So does this mean we can all let our FOID cards expire?



#344 PewPewBangBang

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 10:11 AM

 

From my understanding:

the two circuit court judgments are to be vacated and the court shall find Ms. Brown not guilty by claiming the FOID Act does not apply to her in her home - but not on the basis of saying the FOID Act is unconstitutional.

 

So does this mean we can all let our FOID cards expire?

 

IANAL, but to be honest, it sounds like the only way to get a case back in front of them would be to take a firearm outside the home without a foid. I’m seriously considering doing that. The getting arrested for it is the hard part. Haha.

 

If I went to a range downstate without a foid and asked to shoot do you think they’d call the cops on me?  :rofl:


Edited by PewPewBangBang, 02 April 2020 - 10:14 AM.


#345 mrmagloo

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 11:20 AM

Jeez, how can anyone suggest that the law that was used to prosecute someone is good to stand, but you cannot convict her for breaching it?  What the hey!!! W-T-F kind of Illinois Democratic Machine brain dead logic is that?


Edited by mrmagloo, 02 April 2020 - 11:20 AM.


#346 crufflesmuth

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 11:23 AM

From my understanding:

the two circuit court judgments are to be vacated and the court shall find Ms. Brown not guilty by claiming the FOID Act does not apply to her in her home - but not on the basis of saying the FOID Act is unconstitutional.

 

Wasn't expecting the FOID to be nixed; I was expecting them to strike the possession requirement though.



#347 THE KING

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 11:45 AM

Jeez, how can anyone suggest that the law that was used to prosecute someone is good to stand, but you cannot convict her for breaching it?  What the hey!!! W-T-F kind of Illinois Democratic Machine brain dead logic is that?


Very Good Point.

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#348 defaultdotxbe

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 12:01 PM

 

Jeez, how can anyone suggest that the law that was used to prosecute someone is good to stand, but you cannot convict her for breaching it?  What the hey!!! W-T-F kind of Illinois Democratic Machine brain dead logic is that?


Very Good Point.

 

My interpretation is you can still be convicted for not having a FOID for anything beyond simple possession inside your home, and the case was remanded because striking the entire statute was overkill


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#349 mrmagloo

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 12:28 PM

 

 

Jeez, how can anyone suggest that the law that was used to prosecute someone is good to stand, but you cannot convict her for breaching it?  What the hey!!! W-T-F kind of Illinois Democratic Machine brain dead logic is that?


Very Good Point.

 

My interpretation is you can still be convicted for not having a FOID for anything beyond simple possession inside your home, and the case was remanded because striking the entire statute was overkill

 

 

Typically, if portions of a law are unconstitutional, the law is striken, and it is up to the legislators to craft a new law that is compliant. To suggest portions of the law don't pass muster, but leave it alone and just rule the defendant not guilty is crazy.

 

The take away of their action here suggests, you do NOT need a FOID if you have firearms in your home. However, they purposely left off the part about how one would acquire a gun to bring into your home for said self-defense, and/or how you would obtain ammo as well.  Clearly, they are smart enough to understand what they were doing.

 

Essentially, this ruling was crap shows to what lengths card carrying Democrats will go to support their Anti-2A keystone.



#350 BobPistol

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 01:21 PM

They basically depended on a case where multiple remedies were available, one was "declare unconstitutional" and another was something else and just did another copy/paste of that other case.


The Second Amendment of the Constitution protects the rest.

#351 Badger52

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 01:47 PM

Illinois Democratic Machine....  logic

Oxymoron



#352 Fnfast88

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 01:58 PM

From my understanding:
the two circuit court judgments are to be vacated and the court shall find Ms. Brown not guilty by claiming the FOID Act does not apply to her in her home - but not on the basis of saying the FOID Act is unconstitutional.

 
So does this mean we can all let our FOID cards expire?
IANAL, but to be honest, it sounds like the only way to get a case back in front of them would be to take a firearm outside the home without a foid. I’m seriously considering doing that. The getting arrested for it is the hard part. Haha.
 
If I went to a range downstate without a foid and asked to shoot do you think they’d call the cops on me?  :rofl:
. You can shoot at our local range without a foid as long as you go through their training course and background check

#353 davel501

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 02:01 PM

The ideal challenge to this would be someone whose weapons were seized for an expired FOID due to the state slowness. If that person exists the FOID is dead.



#354 mrmagloo

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 02:01 PM

 

Illinois Democratic Machine....  logic

Oxymoron

 

 

:cry:



#355 mrmagloo

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 02:05 PM

The ideal challenge to this would be someone whose weapons were seized for an expired FOID due to the state slowness. If that person exists the FOID is dead.

 

Well, in a similar vein, it would be interesting on how things would play out for someone who just completed their CCL renewal with retraining and all, but got locked out from renewing their FOID and as a result, lost the CCL too.



#356 defaultdotxbe

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 02:15 PM

 

My interpretation is you can still be convicted for not having a FOID for anything beyond simple possession inside your home, and the case was remanded because striking the entire statute was overkill

 
Typically, if portions of a law are unconstitutional, the law is striken, and it is up to the legislators to craft a new law that is compliant. To suggest portions of the law don't pass muster, but leave it alone and just rule the defendant not guilty is crazy.
 
The take away of their action here suggests, you do NOT need a FOID if you have firearms in your home. However, they purposely left off the part about how one would acquire a gun to bring into your home for said self-defense, and/or how you would obtain ammo as well.  Clearly, they are smart enough to understand what they were doing.
 
Essentially, this ruling was crap shows to what lengths card carrying Democrats will go to support their Anti-2A keystone.

 

My understanding is the opposite, severability doctrine is the standard and only an inseverability clause would actually necessitate the striking of the entire law (although its sometimes done anyway, when no part of the law is found to be effectively severable) A recent example are the SCOTUS rulings on the Affordable Care Act and the Voting Rights Act, where they only struck portions of the laws

As for getting the gun to your house, basically it means that prosecutors would need specific evidence of how you obtained the gun, simply possessing it isn't sufficient evidence to prove a crime


Edited by defaultdotxbe, 02 April 2020 - 02:18 PM.

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flat, and dishwatery utterances of the man who has to be pointed out to
intelligent foreigners as the President of the United States."
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#357 crufflesmuth

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 02:21 PM

 

 

My interpretation is you can still be convicted for not having a FOID for anything beyond simple possession inside your home, and the case was remanded because striking the entire statute was overkill

 
Typically, if portions of a law are unconstitutional, the law is striken, and it is up to the legislators to craft a new law that is compliant. To suggest portions of the law don't pass muster, but leave it alone and just rule the defendant not guilty is crazy.
 
The take away of their action here suggests, you do NOT need a FOID if you have firearms in your home. However, they purposely left off the part about how one would acquire a gun to bring into your home for said self-defense, and/or how you would obtain ammo as well.  Clearly, they are smart enough to understand what they were doing.
 
Essentially, this ruling was crap shows to what lengths card carrying Democrats will go to support their Anti-2A keystone.

 

My understanding is the opposite, severability doctrine is the standard and only an inseverability clause would actually necessitate the striking of the entire law (although its sometimes done anyway, when no part of the law is found to be effectively severable) A recent example are the SCOTUS rulings on the Affordable Care Act and the Voting Rights Act, where they only struck portions of the laws

As for getting the gun to your house, basically it means that prosecutors would need specific evidence of how you obtained the gun, simply possessing it isn't sufficient evidence to prove a crime

 

 

If I understand this correctly, that would mean you could posses any guns/ammo you bought with your previously valid FOID, you just couldn't bring them outside the home unless you renewed your FOID/CCL?



#358 PewPewBangBang

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 02:33 PM

The ideal challenge to this would be someone whose weapons were seized for an expired FOID due to the state slowness. If that person exists the FOID is dead.

 

I’m wondering how good a case would be if the person didn’t have a FOID but was qualified for one, and had applied for it more than 30 days ago but got pulled over and arrested transporting a firearm between property in WI and property in IL. I feel like that could be a winner.



#359 gunuser17

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 02:45 PM

The Illinois Supreme Court, in my opinion, did not rule that no FOID is required to have a firearm in your home.  The IL Sup. Ct. ruling is on a technical issue that no appeal directly from the trial court to the Supreme Ct. was appropriate here.  Generally, when a statute is found unconstitutional, the case is directly appealed to the IL Sup. Ct.  However, where the issue could have been decided by the trial court without determining whether the statute is constitutional, then the trial court is limited to just applying the statute.  Here, the trial court found that the FOID statute did not apply in the home so the accused could not be prosecuted.  The Supreme Ct said that the trial court's job was over once that determination was made and whether the FOID act was constitutional did not need to be addressed by the trial court.  Because of that, the IL Supreme Court did not have jurisdiction to hear the constitutional question of whether the FOID act is unconstitutional.  The IL Supreme Ct also did not have jurisdiction to determine whether the FOID act applies to guns in the home since that is not a constitutional issue that could be appealed directly to the Supreme Ct.  So now, the case goes back to the trial court and the decision will reissue with a not guilty finding based on the trial court's determination that the FOID act does not apply to guns in the home.  

 

The big question is whether the state will appeal that decision to the intermediate level appellate court.  As I already noted, the entire issue could end up right back at the Supreme Court.  



#360 mrmagloo

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Posted 02 April 2020 - 02:47 PM

 

 

My interpretation is you can still be convicted for not having a FOID for anything beyond simple possession inside your home, and the case was remanded because striking the entire statute was overkill

 
Typically, if portions of a law are unconstitutional, the law is striken, and it is up to the legislators to craft a new law that is compliant. To suggest portions of the law don't pass muster, but leave it alone and just rule the defendant not guilty is crazy.
 
The take away of their action here suggests, you do NOT need a FOID if you have firearms in your home. However, they purposely left off the part about how one would acquire a gun to bring into your home for said self-defense, and/or how you would obtain ammo as well.  Clearly, they are smart enough to understand what they were doing.
 
Essentially, this ruling was crap shows to what lengths card carrying Democrats will go to support their Anti-2A keystone.

 

My understanding is the opposite, severability doctrine is the standard and only an inseverability clause would actually necessitate the striking of the entire law (although its sometimes done anyway, when no part of the law is found to be effectively severable) A recent example are the SCOTUS rulings on the Affordable Care Act and the Voting Rights Act, where they only struck portions of the laws

As for getting the gun to your house, basically it means that prosecutors would need specific evidence of how you obtained the gun, simply possessing it isn't sufficient evidence to prove a crime

 

 

Agreed, they could have very well decided to strike the portion of the FOID law only pertaining to the possession of firearms in your own private property. They could have also striken the entire thing. I think the point is, they found the easiest solution to solve the problem, without having to touch the law, which the majority desperately support along political lines. 






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