14 replies to this topic

[mjw45]

The ISP has issued a revised training certificate, 3 hour CCL renewal certificate and updated Instructor Responsibilities.

 

Questions about the renewal process should be addressed in the

CCL Three-Hour Renewal Course Requirements

thread.

 

Questions regarding Instructor responsibilities and documenting can be addressed in this thread.

[mjw45]

My first issues are with the Audit Checklist-

 

1. What are 'Written performance scores'?

How do we document them?

Molly B. - There are no written performance scores.  This is an error that was carried over from the original instructor packet.  The ISP agreed there is no written performance testing score and the live-fire qualification can be designated as pass/fail rather than a score. This is indicated in the official rules and regulations posted in the admin code on the JCAR website: http://www.ilga.gov/...310B00300R.html

 

2. Live Fire scores for each portion and overall score?

I thought Pass/Fail was all that was required.

Molly B. - see above

 

 

3.  'Copy of training certificate'

Are we now supposed to keep a copy of the certificates we issue, after being signed by the student and instructor?

Molly B. - No, the ISP is recommending instructors do this but it is not required.  Instructors are  to keep a copy of prior training certificates or CCLs, if you are giving credit for prior training.

 

4. Documenting proof of prior law enforcement training?

What is acceptable as proof?

When did it start being acceptable as 8 hours of credit?

What about those who have received their 40 hours of training but have not been hired yet?

Molly B. - Acceptable proof is a copy of their training certificate. This applies to former law enforcement and corrections officers.  Currently employed are exempt from training.

                (j) The Department and certified firearms instructors shall recognize up to 8 hours of training already completed toward the 16 hour training requirement under this Section if the training course is approved by the Department and was completed in connection with the applicant's previous employment as a law enforcement or corrections officer. Any remaining hours that the applicant completes must at least cover the classroom subject matter of paragraph (4) of subsection ( b] of this Section, and the range qualification in subsection © of this Section. A former law enforcement or corrections officer seeking credit under this subsection (j) shall provide evidence that he or she separated from employment in good standing from each law enforcement agency where he or she was employed. An applicant who was discharged from a law enforcement agency for misconduct or disciplinary reasons is not eligible for credit under this subsection (j).
(Source: P.A. 98-63, eff. 7-9-13; 98-600, eff. 12-6-13.)

 

 

5. Military training

What about those currently serving who do not have a DD214?

Can we use a copy current leave and earning statement? 

This shows that they are currently active.

 

Molly B. - Neither the Statute nor the administrative code specify this.For active duty members currently serving, I recommend instructors ask the member to retrieve the “Status Report  Pursuant to the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act” available at this link:

https://scra.dmdc.os...#/single-record

 

This form is retrieved directly from the DoD Manpower Data Center.  Alternatively, they can record the DoD Identification number. Instructors MUST NOT copy or scan the military identification card, however. That is illegal.  Former military members should use the DD214 as proof of service and discharge status.

 

 

Edited by Molly B., 04 May 2018 - 08:21 PM.

[mjw45]

Example Roster-

 

The example roster does not have places to document-

Live Fire Pass/Fail

Certificate Issued

[mjw45]

Training Certificate-

 

1. Business Name-

I am assuming that if we do not have a registered business name that we still use our own name?

Or do we just leave it blank?

Instructor I&R page 6 Appendix B-  9. Print business name if applicable.

Molly B. - I will inquire about this but in the meantime, I would assume we continue to use our own name. Based on prior requirement not to leave anything blank.

 

2. B-27 target requirement-

The latest certificates include a link for info on the ISP approved B-27 target-

ispfsb.com and click on forms and brochures tab.

 

I can not find any such tab or info on ispfsb.com.

Molly B. - this may be something they are working on for future use?

Edited by Molly B., 03 May 2018 - 09:10 AM.

[Mr. Fife]

  3.  'Copy of training certificate' Are we now supposed to keep a copy of the certificates we issue, after being signed by the student and instructor?  

I believe this is for certificates of prior training submitted to you by the students for credit. I didn't see anywhere that we have to save copies of the certificates we issue to the students for the FCCL.

[mjw45]

 

  3.  'Copy of training certificate' Are we now supposed to keep a copy of the certificates we issue, after being signed by the student and instructor?  

I believe this is for certificates of prior training submitted to you by the students for credit. I didn't see anywhere that we have to save copies of the certificates we issue to the students for the FCCL.

 

 

The issue is that the Audit Checklist states-

'Copy of Training certificate that was issued upon successful completions of the course'.

 

That reads to me that it is the certificate that the Instructor issues.

There is also a separate checklist for prior training.

 

Molly thanks for the answers so far.

[Mr. Fife]

Hmm, it does appear you are correct, the last portion of the audit checklist does seem to pertain to the training we provide.The audit checklist is divided into 4 sections.

Edit... Stupid speelchick.

Edited by Mr. Fife, 03 May 2018 - 10:38 AM.

[Molly B.]

 

 

  3.  'Copy of training certificate' Are we now supposed to keep a copy of the certificates we issue, after being signed by the student and instructor?  

I believe this is for certificates of prior training submitted to you by the students for credit. I didn't see anywhere that we have to save copies of the certificates we issue to the students for the FCCL.

 

 

The issue is that the Audit Checklist states-

'Copy of Training certificate that was issued upon successful completions of the course'.

 

That reads to me that it is the certificate that the Instructor issues.

There is also a separate checklist for prior training.

 

Molly thanks for the answers so far.

 

 

Keep in mind the audit checklist and roster are recommended, not required.  The requirements are listed in the official rules and regulation on the Administrative Code website:

 

c)         The Department may, without providing prior notice, audit an Instructor's scheduled training for purposes of investigating allegations that an Instructor and/or curriculum is not in compliance with the Act and this Part. 

 

1)         To facilitate an adequate audit trail, instructors shall maintain all records to support any training certification as required by Section 75(f) of the Act, which shall include:

 

A)        copies of training certificates currently accepted to satisfy the prior training credit submitted by students; and

 

            (b] written training rosters that shall include:

 

i)          instructor's name and CCT number;

 

ii)         curriculum name and CCC number;

 

iii)        student's full legal name;

 

iv)        student's date of birth;

 

v)         student's address;

 

vi)        student's phone number;

 

vii)       total hours attended, broken down to identify hours per topic covered as approved in Section 1231.40;

 

viii)      pass/fail live fire qualification; and

 

ix)        an indication of yes/no on issuance of ISP CCL training certificate, which shall serve as proof of completion of training.

[Molly B.]

 

 

  3.  'Copy of training certificate' Are we now supposed to keep a copy of the certificates we issue, after being signed by the student and instructor?  

I believe this is for certificates of prior training submitted to you by the students for credit. I didn't see anywhere that we have to save copies of the certificates we issue to the students for the FCCL.

 

 

The issue is that the Audit Checklist states-

'Copy of Training certificate that was issued upon successful completions of the course'.

 

That reads to me that it is the certificate that the Instructor issues.

There is also a separate checklist for prior training.

 

Molly thanks for the answers so far.

You are correct, I missed that.  This is a recommended practice but not required.

[Mr. Fife]

Thanks Molly B.

[Terry 9595]

My question on the Three Hour traning.....when can we start giving it. How long is it good for?

[Molly B.]

There is no stipulations on when we can begin training.  There is no expiration on the certificate.  I see no reason why training can't begin over the summer.

[NRApistol]

Small rant:  I started going over my 3 hour curriculum today to make sure I was in total compliance with ISP "recommendations".  Items one and two of the renewal "recommendations" per the ISP certificate should require 3 hours.  Those are the very same "recommendations" as items four and five on the 16 hour certificate that per the ISP should require 8 hours.  This is from the same people that just sent instructors warnings not to shorten courses.  Just how do they want me to teach the same segments in 3 hours in one class, but will take my certification away if I don`t use 8 hours (for the same material) in the 16 hour class.  

[Smallbore]

My two hour legal will be just the highlights with no commentary. My handgun fundamentals will be short and sweet and only a reminder.
I have wondered why the state police want the statutes "defense of persons, dwelling and property" presented without case law that contradicts most of it. Are they intentionally setting up ccl holders for a fall?

[wtr100]

My two hour legal will be just the highlights with no commentary. My handgun fundamentals will be short and sweet and only a reminder.
I have wondered why the state police want the statutes "defense of persons, dwelling and property" presented without case law that contradicts most of it. Are they intentionally setting up ccl holders for a fall?

nah they just don't care - ISP wanted less than zero to do with this whole thing and tried to pawn it off on the guys who certify rent a cops who promptly said not only no but heyelllll no -

That said ISP has been pretty helpful with question and such but I think they're just not putting anymore effort into the program than they're required to

Edited by wtr100, 07 May 2018 - 12:02 PM.