FOID Denial, MMC

[Sunshynee]

My bag was stolen with my wallet containing my FOID. I reported it May 31st and received a letter two days ago saying it was denied because I answered yes to the drug question. I did that because I have a medical marijuana card now. I didn't have it years ago when I first applied for the FOID. There was no specific question for MMC and answering no when marijuana is still illegal federally would be lying (seems that way to me). I looked in the forum and saw someone do something similar but I'm unclear if I need to send in something saying the question was answered incorrectly. Right now, it is only requesting I fill out two forms and send any supporting documents. My questions are:

 

1. Was I supposed to answer no? Doesn't seem very clear on the expectation for MMC cardholders.

 

2. Does anyone have any idea how long the appeal process takes?

 

3. I wanted to get my conceal carry. I'm guessing this needs to be straightened out first or can I do both simultaneously (start the appeal for the FOID and still start the conceal carry process). Maybe that will allow me to clarify things faster than an appeal?

 

Thank you in advance for any input. I did a search on this forum but didn't find the exact answer I needed. If there is another post answering these questions, feel free to just post the link.

[Talonap]

Welcome to the forum!

 

I don't think clarification will do any good. If I remember correctly, you answered the question the right way. However, as things are right now, if you are taking MJ, even for medical reasons, you won't be allowed to have a FOID card. As you said, it is still illegal federally. Others will be around shortly to give additional info. What forms did they give you to fill out? You might want to send a message to MollyB - she is magick!

[custodian7138]

https://isp.illinois.gov/Foid/Foidfaq

 

Scroll down to section 2... click on question 5

[InterestedBystander]

https://isp.illinois.gov/Foid/Foidfaq

 

Scroll down to section 2... click on question 5

MMJ card is not a disqualifier for FOID, but you will not be able to purchase from an FFL

 

Q. If I am a qualifying patient or designated caregiver pursuant to the Compassionate Use of Medical Cannabis Pilot Program Act and hold a valid Medical Cannabis Card, are my Firearms Owners Identification Card and Concealed Carry License still valid?

 

A. Medical marijuana cardholders will not have their FOID or CCL cards revoked, or be denied issuance of a FOID or CCL card, due to their status as a medical marijuana cardholder. Such cards are State-issued, governed by State law, and State law requires that a person's status as a medical marijuana cardholder not result in the denial of any right or privilege...

[Sunshynee]

I understand MMC is not a denial for FOID but the application leaves you no way to indicate that. The question must be answered with a yes if being honest because marijuana is illegal federally. However, I'm not certain on the correct way to handle the appeal/the answers to my initial questions.

[Euler]

How is the question on the application worded now?

 

Once upon a time, I think it was only about whether you used or were addicted to narcotics. While marijuana is a drug, it isn't a narcotic. Narcotics are things like opiates and cocaine.

[Sunshynee]

How is the question on the application worded now?Once upon a time, I think it was only about whether you used or were addicted to narcotics. While marijuana is a drug, it isn't a narcotic. Narcotics are things like opiates and cocaine.

I don't recall exactly but I believe it asked about use of state of federal controlled substances. Unfortunately, that was a few months ago so I don't recall the exact wording.

[Rtw5150]

This here. The question on the FOID app is "Are you addicted to narcotics". If you have a medical card I assume you have a valid reason to use and are not addicted so your answer should be no.

 

Marijuana is on the schedule 1 list, the same as heroin. Hydrocodone is considered schedule 2, if I hurt my back and am given Hydrocodone am I addicted to narcotics? Hardly.

Now if you go to purchase a gun from an FFL you have to fill out a 4473 and the wording is something like are you a user or addicted to any unlawful drugs then it gives a disclaimer that marijuana is against fed law no matter what your state saws etc.

 

I personally wouldn't touch an 4473 in your situation, but for your appeal your defense should be "I misclicked yes instead of no" not I'm just marijuana user, you don't want to be the test case lol.

 

 

 

How is the question on the application worded now?Once upon a time, I think it was only about whether you used or were addicted to narcotics. While marijuana is a drug, it isn't a narcotic. Narcotics are things like opiates and cocaine.

 

How is the question on the application worded now?Once upon a time, I think it was only about whether you used or were addicted to narcotics. While marijuana is a drug, it isn't a narcotic. Narcotics are things like opiates and cocaine.

[Sunshynee]

This here. The question on the FOID app is "Are you addicted to narcotics". If you have a medical card I assume you have a valid reason to use and are not addicted so your answer should be no.

 

Marijuana is on the schedule 1 list, the same as heroin. Hydrocodone is considered schedule 2, if I hurt my back and am given Hydrocodone am I addicted to narcotics? Hardly.

Now if you go to purchase a gun from an FFL you have to fill out a 4473 and the wording is something like are you a user or addicted to any unlawful drugs then it gives a disclaimer that marijuana is against fed law no matter what your state saws etc.

 

I personally wouldn't touch an 4473 in your situation, but for your appeal your defense should be "I misclicked yes instead of no" not I'm just marijuana user, you don't want to be the test case lol.

 

 

How is the question on the application worded now?Once upon a time, I think it was only about whether you used or were addicted to narcotics. While marijuana is a drug, it isn't a narcotic. Narcotics are things like opiates and cocaine.

 

 

How is the question on the application worded now?Once upon a time, I think it was only about whether you used or were addicted to narcotics. While marijuana is a drug, it isn't a narcotic. Narcotics are things like opiates and cocaine.

 

Thanks for the additional insight on how to appeal. I agree, the exact wording matters but if I recall correctly, it was not only about addiction but also use of state or federally classified controlled substances. I have an MMC as I personally suffer from two of the qualifying conditions which makes me a marijuana user and fall into the yes category. In the instance of your example of using hydrocodone, that does not mean you are addicted but it does mean you are using it.

 

The affidavit for question 5 states, "The stated reason for the denial is that on my

application I indicated that within past year (preceding the date of my application), I have

used or been addicted to any controlled substance or narcotics in violation of state or

federal law." This would mean the question ask about use and addiction, as well as narcotics and controlled substances.

 

There needs to be some way or instruction for MMC holders to answer the question correctly. Otherwise, you will answer honestly and appeal or answer no which I would think is illegal.

[Rtw5150]

Here's the application

[Sunshynee]

Here's the application

That application is not identical to what I filled out when initially applying or reporting it stolen. There was more wording to the question online. Your application would definitely be a clear no.

[Rtw5150]

 

Here's the application

That application is not identical to what I filled out when initially applying or reporting it stolen. There was more wording to the question online. Your application would definitely be a clear no.

It's a clear no regardless, it's a state form, marijuana medical or recreational are legal here.

Like Nancy Reagan said, just say no. Pretty sure this is what she was referring to.

[Sunshynee]

 

 

Here's the application

That application is not identical to what I filled out when initially applying or reporting it stolen. There was more wording to the question online. Your application would definitely be a clear no.

It's a clear no regardless, it's a state form, marijuana medical or recreational are legal here.

Like Nancy Reagan said, just say no. Pretty sure this is what she was referring to.

Thank you for your help.

[Bubbacs]

So if you have had your FOID stolen or have lost it, you report it as such correct?

But then you have to apply for a new one? Wouldn’t they just reissue one after a background check.

I’d be a little upset if I lost the FOID and then had to reapply all over again. And if I did reapply, I’d use the same responses as last I applied.......no.

[Molly B.]

My bag was stolen with my wallet containing my FOID. I reported it May 31st and received a letter two days ago saying it was denied because I answered yes to the drug question. I did that because I have a medical marijuana card now. I didn't have it years ago when I first applied for the FOID. There was no specific question for MMC and answering no when marijuana is still illegal federally would be lying (seems that way to me). I looked in the forum and saw someone do something similar but I'm unclear if I need to send in something saying the question was answered incorrectly. Right now, it is only requesting I fill out two forms and send any supporting documents. My questions are:

 

1. Was I supposed to answer no? Doesn't seem very clear on the expectation for MMC cardholders.

 

2. Does anyone have any idea how long the appeal process takes?

 

3. I wanted to get my conceal carry. I'm guessing this needs to be straightened out first or can I do both simultaneously (start the appeal for the FOID and still start the conceal carry process). Maybe that will allow me to clarify things faster than an appeal?

 

Thank you in advance for any input. I did a search on this forum but didn't find the exact answer I needed. If there is another post answering these questions, feel free to just post the link.

 

 

What two forms did they send you to sign and return?

 

This type of appeal is taking 6 mos. to a year . . .

[Molly B.]

Here's the application

 

 

I'm not sure where this form was found but I don't think the questions are the same now. This is the question on the FOID application portal.

I have not within the past year (preceding the date of this application) used or been addicted to any controlled substance or narcotics in violation of state or federal law.

 

 

 

[Sunshynee]

 

My bag was stolen with my wallet containing my FOID. I reported it May 31st and received a letter two days ago saying it was denied because I answered yes to the drug question. I did that because I have a medical marijuana card now. I didn't have it years ago when I first applied for the FOID. There was no specific question for MMC and answering no when marijuana is still illegal federally would be lying (seems that way to me). I looked in the forum and saw someone do something similar but I'm unclear if I need to send in something saying the question was answered incorrectly. Right now, it is only requesting I fill out two forms and send any supporting documents. My questions are:

1. Was I supposed to answer no? Doesn't seem very clear on the expectation for MMC cardholders.

2. Does anyone have any idea how long the appeal process takes?

3. I wanted to get my conceal carry. I'm guessing this needs to be straightened out first or can I do both simultaneously (start the appeal for the FOID and still start the conceal carry process). Maybe that will allow me to clarify things faster than an appeal?

Thank you in advance for any input. I did a search on this forum but didn't find the exact answer I needed. If there is another post answering these questions, feel free to just post the link.

 

 

What two forms did they send you to sign and return?

They only sent a request for foid appeal and instructions but the letter says it should also include a request for investigation and waiver of liability. I found that on their site.

[InterestedBystander]

Here's the application

So on a lost/stolen form, it sounds like one needs to go through a whole new application form or a modified version thereof...is that correct?

 

Pretty sure thats the old paper application form from years ago and no longer used/allowed.

 

Q. What if I do not have access to a computer? Is there a paper FOID application?

 

A. Sort of. We no longer accept the old, fill-in-the-blank form, but you may apply through our alternative call-in method. To do so, call the Customer Service Center at 217-782-7980 to complete the application over the phone, including making payment in the form of a credit card, debit card or electronic check. Upon payment, a partially-completed application will be mailed to you for final completion. You will need to answer some criminal history and mental health questions, attach a RECENT photograph and sign the application. You must return the application to the Firearms Services Bureau for final processing. Please DO NOT send in a check, money order, or cash with your completed call-in paper application; the fee will already have been taken electronically through the alternative call-in method.

[Molly B.]

You will need to include an "inadvertent Yes answer affidavit"

https://www.ispfsb.com/Public/Firearms/FOID/Affidavit-Question5.pdf

 

 

Your Foid Appeal Request will be a - challenging the accuracy of the record

 

And in the describe reason box you should say you are a MMC holder and inadvertently answered yes to the use of drugs when you should have answered NO.

 

Keep a complete copy of everything for your records - you may need it in the future. Mail a set to ISP using a mail service that will send you a signed receipt of delivery.

[Sunshynee]

You will need to include an "inadvertent Yes answer affidavit"

https://www.ispfsb.com/Public/Firearms/FOID/Affidavit-Question5.pdf

 

Thank you for your help.

[Euler]

There's probably a point to be made that, given the way the question is worded now, "yes" is the truthful answer, but state policy (law?) prohibits denial if the "yes" is for marijuana. The state requiring people to lie on an official document seems legally unstable to me.

[joedav1228]

This may be unrelated but...

 

Why do you even bother with the MMC card if you can't buy from a FFL dealer and pot is already legal in this state? Even if you got stopped after you purchased pot from Joe Blow without a medical card you wont have any issues with Johnny Law?

 

Just trying to understand the mindset of a card holder.

[Euler]

...

Why do you even bother with the MMC card if ... pot is already legal in this state? ...

I'm not an MMC-holder and I don't know any personally, but my understanding is that MM is cheaper, both direct cost and tax. A possible added advantage is that some medical forms and uses are permitted by federal law. More medical forms and uses are likely to be added eventually, before recreational uses.

[gilby]

Based on the discussion here I think I know the answer to my question already but I'll ask anyway...

 

Should I, after having a couple of vertebrae fused in my neck and not able to take NSAID's for pain, apply for a MMC?

 

The surgeon tells me NSAID's will inhibit the fusion from fusing. He's prescribed Norco, which i have used reluctantly and sparingly.

 

If I'm going to need something for pain management long term I'd rather go the THC route, but will not jeopardize my CCL.

 

Thanks for any help on this...

[InterestedBystander]

Getting a MMC card should not revoke the FOID nor CCL...but, only private purchases going forward. Anything through an FFL and a 4473 will be denied. Per the ISP FAQ:

 

Q. If I am a qualifying patient or designated caregiver pursuant to the Compassionate Use of Medical Cannabis Pilot Program Act and hold a valid Medical Cannabis Card, are my Firearms Owners Identification Card and Concealed Carry License still valid?

 

A. Medical marijuana cardholders will not have their FOID or CCL cards revoked, or be denied issuance of a FOID or CCL card, due to their status as a medical marijuana cardholder. Such cards are State-issued, governed by State law, and State law requires that a person's status as a medical marijuana cardholder not result in the denial of any right or privilege

 

Should I, after having a couple of vertebrae fused in my neck and not able to take NSAID's for pain, apply for a MMC?

IMO, thats a question only you can answer

[gilby]

Getting a MMC card should not revoke the FOID nor CCL...but, only private purchases going forward. Anything through an FFL and a 4473 will be denied. Per the ISP FAQ:

Q. If I am a qualifying patient or designated caregiver pursuant to the Compassionate Use of Medical Cannabis Pilot Program Act and hold a valid Medical Cannabis Card, are my Firearms Owners Identification Card and Concealed Carry License still valid?

A. Medical marijuana cardholders will not have their FOID or CCL cards revoked, or be denied issuance of a FOID or CCL card, due to their status as a medical marijuana cardholder. Such cards are State-issued, governed by State law, and State law requires that a person's status as a medical marijuana cardholder not result in the denial of any right or privilege

Should I, after having a couple of vertebrae fused in my neck and not able to take NSAID's for pain, apply for a MMC?

IMO, thats a question only you can answer

I guess my 'fear' would be that although the CCL shouldn't be revoked, if it were, I'd be fighting an uphill battle to get it back. And seeing how long it's taking just to renew FOIDs lately I will likely forget about a card...

[joedav1228]

Is the medical card enough to ban FFL transactions for your entire life or is it just "x" amount of years after you last registered for a medical card?

 

 

Thanks for any help on this...

 

Pot is legal in this state. If you decide to go that route just don't get a card, buy it on the side like everyone else and there will be no tracks left behind.

 

 

 

I'm not an MMC-holder and I don't know any personally, but my understanding is that MM is cheaper, both direct cost and tax.

 

The only thing I can think of is if you were tested for pot in work you could have a better chance of keeping your job because you are legally allowed to have pot. Even with the card, the stuff in the legit stores is still so expensive. It's not 3x as expensive, I feel like the card brings the price down to 2x so it can't be for the cost savings. ahha

[custodian7138]

Is the medical card enough to ban FFL transactions for your entire life or is it just "x" amount of years after you last registered for a medical card?

 

 

 

At the time of my denial... I was told that I would be denied for one year from the date that my registry card expired.

[gilby]

I got the all clear to resume NSAID'S normally so that will cover the majority of my pain management issues. And I think the idea of buying edibles without a card for the occasional times it might be needed is going to be the way to go.

Thanks for the input.

[hceuterpe]

The FOID law specifically lists a prohibitor as someone addicted to narcotics. Further down it references the IL controlled substances act, it specifies that the state defines narcotics as either opiates or from the coca plant (e.g. cocaine, crack cocaine). Further it mostly specifies the illicit use of it and not use as adhered to as prescribed. In fact THC/marijuana is not listed even once in that law.

 

Clearly the FOID application is poorly worded since it caused confusion. But sadly there is little to no true, effective due process with the FOID...

 

As for the issue at the federal level with the 4473. Is it only the THC that you find effective, or can the cannabinoid oil do the trick for your pain? From what I understand, the oil itself (not containing THC beyond the minimal trace amounts) does not run afoul in either the eyes of the ATF, or the DEA...