The Second Amendment Is Meaningless If the Government Can Kill You for Exercising It

[davel501]

Great article from the Cato Institute: https://www.cato.org/blog/second-amendment-meaningless-government-can-kill-you-exercising-it

[TRussell]

Four words....shall not be infringed!

[Smallbore]

On 2/1/2026 at 9:29 AM, davel501 said:

Great article from the Cato Institute: https://www.cato.org/blog/second-amendment-meaningless-government-can-kill-you-exercising-it

 

[Smallbore]

I come from the belief that a right is absolute but an absolute right is not the right to commit a crime. Bring to the discussion "reactionary gap" and "pre-attack indcators",  approaching aggressively any leo with a gun on you is stupid. There is not a right to be protected from our stupidity.

[Tip]

Lawful carry

Carrying lawfully

Valid Concealed carry
Leagally carrying 

 

Lots of similar verbiage…..
 

BUT, I know of no laws authorizing or even allowing the carry of a weapon during the commission of a crime.
Does the commission of a crime invalidate “lawful carry” or “carrying leagally”?

[davel501]

On 2/1/2026 at 1:05 PM, Smallbore said:

I come from the belief that a right is absolute but an absolute right is not the right to commit a crime. Bring to the discussion "reactionary gap" and "pre-attack indcators",  approaching aggressively any leo with a gun on you is stupid. There is not a right to be protected from our stupidity.

 

Those words are all strategy. Good to pay attention to how they talk but meaningless. 

 

This is a good video 

 

 

[davel501]

On 2/1/2026 at 1:19 PM, Tip said:

Lawful carry

Carrying lawfully

Valid Concealed carry
Leagally carrying 

 

Lots of similar verbiage…..
 

BUT, I know of no laws authorizing or even allowing the carry of a weapon during the commission of a crime.
Does the commission of a crime invalidate “lawful carry” or “carrying leagally”?

 

Are you insinuating that carrying unlawfully is a death penalty crime? Can you carry unlawfully under the second amendment? 

[mauserme]

This all reminds me of Philando Castile.  Groups that really didn't understand or respect the Second Amendment were desperate to make that a 2A issue.  Nobody bought into it, because it wasn't.

 

Sure, some members of the current administration said some things that display their lack of understanding.  But they're trying to be more or less on our side, even if they need some guidance at times.

 

 

 

 

[rmart]

If a right is an absolute right, and I believe the RtKaBA is, then NOBODY should be permitted to infringe upon it.

Right now we accept that the Bill of Rights prohibits the government from infringing on our rights but we apply it to them only and then allow them to prohibit the carrying of arms in Federal buildings. Tell me how that makes sense

 

Then we allow EVERYONE ELSE to infringe upon our rights by the posting of no-gun signs and other methods of making our ability to exercise our rights without difficult or impossible. It's either a RIGHT, or it isn't. If we permit rights to be infringed upon then they're only privileges. The next generation can just add more infringements until the right is non-existent. Oh wait...

 

If you are not allowed to discriminate based on race, sex, age, color, creed, religion, marital status, or sexual orientation and gender identity which cannot be proven, then you should not be allowed to discriminate against an enumerated right such as free speech, freedom of religion, freedom to peaceably assemble, and the right to keep and bear arms. No matter who you are but, here we are.

[Tip]

On 2/1/2026 at 2:06 PM, davel501 said:

 

Are you insinuating that carrying unlawfully is a death penalty crime? Can you carry unlawfully under the second amendment? 

NOPE! Not at all - I said nothing, and insinuate nothing, about the shooting. Please don’t read your twist into something not said.

 

I am simply questioning whether he was “legally” carrying…. Resisting IS a crime.

[rmart]

He was legally carrying (per the 2nd amendment). He was illegally interfering with federal law enforcement engaged in enforcing federal law. He was not apparently using the firearm in an illegal manner while he was engaged in illegally interfering. The mere possession of a firearm, even while in the commission of a crime should not be a factor unless he actively used that firearm to commit the crime. IMHO.

One should not be killed merely for being in possession of a firearm.

Some may argue that due process has established that the possession of a firearm while committing another crime is a chargeable crime. I think that's an infringement unless the individual has, through due process, been prohibited from possessing or using a firearm. We have accepted too many anti-2nd amendment laws because we didn't see them as applying to us. Now we can see how they can be applied to us after all. 'I didn't speak up for the <insert group here> because I wasn't a <insert group here>...'.

 

 

 

[mauserme]

Am I remembering correctly that the multiple gun shots didn't occur until after a single shot was heard first?  I have no idea who's firearm discharged, but that seemed to precipitate everything else if my memory of the video is accurate.  I don't think it was merely the presence of the firearm that led to his death.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BobPistol]

The right to life is the first and primordial human right.

If you have no right to live, none of the other rights exist.

A dead person has no right to free speech

A dead person has no right to RKBA.

A dead person has no right to own property.

A dead person has no rights period.

 

 

[davel501]

On 2/1/2026 at 6:01 PM, mauserme said:

Am I remembering correctly that the multiple gun shots didn't occur until after a single shot was heard first?  I have no idea who's firearm discharged, but that seemed to precipitate everything else if my memory of the video is accurate.  I don't think it was merely the presence of the firearm that led to his death.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's accurate. Some theorize his sig 320 did sig 320 things. I'm scared to share an image because I fear it may be Ai doctored, but watch the videos and gray shirt guy doesn't have his trigger finger high and pointed forward on the slide. It looks to be wrapped around the grip. 

 

ND or uncommanded, I can't disagree. 

[mab22]

Has a question been presented or what IS the question? 
 

[mauserme]

On 2/4/2026 at 1:02 AM, soundguy said:

 

 

The primary question  ...

 

 

 

 

Is not what you tried to change it to.  Please stick to a 2A discussion in this National Politics thread.

 

 

 

[Smallbore]

I still do not see this tragedy as a 2a issue. We have the right to stick our hand in a fire, but not the right to blame the fire for our charcoal fingers.

Our leos also have rights.

[davel501]

On 2/4/2026 at 7:20 AM, Smallbore said:

I still do not see this tragedy as a 2a issue. We have the right to stick our hand in a fire, but not the right to blame the fire for our charcoal fingers.

Our leos also have rights.

 

It's the reaction that the article is about. It's about how quickly "the most second amendment administration ever" turned on the second amendment. Not just people within the administration but the guy himself. 

[Smallbore]

On 2/4/2026 at 8:27 AM, davel501 said:

 

It's the reaction that the article is about. It's about how quickly "the most second amendment administration ever" turned on the second amendment. Not just people within the administration but the guy himself. 

I find myself agreeing with President Trump. In sociology we learn how quick a mob can turn. I recognize the right to carry, not that it is wise to carry. I stay away from mobs.

[mauserme]

On 2/4/2026 at 8:27 AM, davel501 said:

 

It's the reaction that the article is about. It's about how quickly "the most second amendment administration ever" turned on the second amendment. Not just people within the administration but the guy himself. 

 

Oh, right.  It's election season.

 

How could we ever have an election season without "the Republican is at least as bad as Clinton, Obama, Biden, Harris would have been, fill in the blank with the next anti-gun D ...".  

 

 

[davel501]

On 2/4/2026 at 9:22 AM, mauserme said:

 

Oh, right.  It's election season.

 

How could we ever have an election season without "the Republican is at least as bad as Clinton, Obama, Biden, Harris would have been, fill in the blank with the next anti-gun D ...".  

 

 

 

Just another unforced error. 

[Dumak_from_arfcom]

Pretty obvious that gray jacket guy experienced an ND with the 320 while turning to walk away. The gun and his hand holding the gun both move at the exact point the shot can be heard on audio.  Upon hearing the shots, the nurse/suspect got blasted by the other officers. It isn't clear if gray jacket guy informed the other officers wrestling with the suspect that he secured the gun. The only issue lies with gray jacket guy.  It was horrible, but I suspect the officers who used deadly force will be cleared. 

 

The suspect/nurse obstructed ICE when he got between the agent and the female. Then he resisted arrest and continued to resist arrest.  IIRC those are felonies. 

 

I've been present at a number of carry classes and they all stress de-escalation and complying with law enforcement commands while carrying. 

 

The 2nd amendment isn't a right that protects oneself from being retardedly stupid.  

 

As for the Trump administration.  They blew it with misinformed statements from the beginning.  But if one wants to know the difference between the Trump admin on guns and any other democrat admin, just look at what is happening in Virginia and what happened in Illinois. 

 

 

[Euler]

Resisting arrest is typically a misdemeanor. If resisting arrest is committed to enable a felony (e.g., murder), then it's a felony.