As a practical matter, IL is not so terrible for gun owners

[vito]

More than once I have been asked by friends or family who live in gun friendly states, how I can tolerate being here in Illinois which is led by rabidly anti-gun Pritzker and the Leftist Democrats. I've told people that on a practical level, its tolerable even if not ideal. Yes, getting a FOID is an irritant, but no more than that. Waiting to pick up a gun that I have paid a LGS for is annoying, but again, tolerable. And ever since concealed carry was legalized here I have felt able to carry most anywhere that I wanted to go. So overall, while I would still prefer to live somewhere else, I have few gun related issues with this Left dominated state. 

 

On the plus side, since my military pension and my SS payments are not taxable by the State, the state income tax is mostly a non issue for me. I am not sure how many other states would be as good for me in that regard. And since my wife would not consider moving away from the area that we live in, to remain close to family and her friends, I don't think we are going anywhere in any case. I still vote, but I am not sure it makes any difference here and that is a bigger irritant than 2nd Amendment issues. 

[mauserme]

On 8/30/2025 at 9:23 AM, vito said:

... my wife would not consider moving away from the area ...

 

 

I see you have one valid argument.

 

 

[Quiet Observer]

On 8/30/2025 at 9:23 AM, vito said:

More than once I have been asked by friends or family who live in gun friendly states, how I can tolerate being here in Illinois which is led by rabidly anti-gun Pritzker and the Leftist Democrats. I've told people that on a practical level, its tolerable even if not ideal. Yes, getting a FOID is an irritant, but no more than that. Waiting to pick up a gun that I have paid a LGS for is annoying, but again, tolerable. And ever since concealed carry was legalized here I have felt able to carry most anywhere that I wanted to go. So overall, while I would still prefer to live somewhere else, I have few gun related issues with this Left dominated state. 

 

On the plus side, since my military pension and my SS payments are not taxable by the State, the state income tax is mostly a non issue for me. I am not sure how many other states would be as good for me in that regard. And since my wife would not consider moving away from the area that we live in, to remain close to family and her friends, I don't think we are going anywhere in any case. I still vote, but I am not sure it makes any difference here and that is a bigger irritant than 2nd Amendment issues. 

Indiana does not tax military retirement nor social security either. It has constitutional carry and offers a CC permit also. We left Illinois over 3 years ago. We are close enough to visit family there.

I am not criticizing your reasons to stay there. Moving is a major family decision. 

 

EDIT: changed "take" to "tax" in first sentence.

Edited August 30, 2025 at 10:19 PM by Quiet Observer

[John Q Public]

PC not CC

[JMF248392]

I agree, but I can also see others viewpoint. I know too many people who have guns and could use the CC course. I know most people grew up with guns but there are too many people who literally have no idea what gun safety means.

[ealcala31]

On 8/30/2025 at 9:23 AM, vito said:

More than once I have been asked by friends or family who live in gun friendly states, how I can tolerate being here in Illinois which is led by rabidly anti-gun Pritzker and the Leftist Democrats. I've told people that on a practical level, its tolerable even if not ideal. Yes, getting a FOID is an irritant, but no more than that. Waiting to pick up a gun that I have paid a LGS for is annoying, but again, tolerable. And ever since concealed carry was legalized here I have felt able to carry most anywhere that I wanted to go. So overall, while I would still prefer to live somewhere else, I have few gun related issues with this Left dominated state. 

 

On the plus side, since my military pension and my SS payments are not taxable by the State, the state income tax is mostly a non issue for me. I am not sure how many other states would be as good for me in that regard. And since my wife would not consider moving away from the area that we live in, to remain close to family and her friends, I don't think we are going anywhere in any case. I still vote, but I am not sure it makes any difference here and that is a bigger irritant than 2nd Amendment issues. 

I just can't understand how so many people think IL gun laws are tolerable in any sense. I've been an IL FFL Dealer for 6yrs. I have also sold firearms and accessories at gun shows in WI and IN. My 01 FFL w/CL III SOT would allow me to possess and sell SBS, SBR, suppressors, and machineguns w/a Law Letter(LL are very difficult to get). But because I am in IL, I can only possess and sell SBR and AOWs. For no reason other than IL law says so. Your 2nd Amendment rights, as an IL citizen are beyond neutered. We're not allowed to own SBS, not allowed to own SBRs without getting an ATF C&R License or being in a War Reenactment Organization, not allowed to own suppressors, and not allowed to own pre-86 machineguns. NFA items are a whole new world that we have no access to. We now have PICA restrictions that cut off the legs of our 2A rights and LE who many believe we shouldn't even own firearms. There is no private firearm market anymore. Going through ISP is a permission slip to sell your own privately owned items. And the point of a waiting period is beyond me when you have a dozen or so firearms at home.

 

WI and IN residents pay for their firearm, pass a background check, and go home with their firearm the same day. If they want a suppressor, they go through all the NFA paperwork, waiting times are less than a week, and they go home w/their suppressor. If they have 10k plus, the same procedure will get them a machinegun. If they want to sell a standard firearm, they can pay the gun show fee and walk around with a sign saying the price of their firearm. Find a buyer, take the cash, transfer the firearm to a same state resident, and move on. Beretta M9A4 with threaded barrel or an AR15 w/pistol grip, adjustable stock, and 30rd mag, no problem. What's PICA over there? I guess you would have to see first hand what 2A rights really are. We've got too used to these semi-2A rights.

[Euler]

The FOID is treated as a license that can be revoked by the state, effectively suspending a person's 2A rights without due process. I've written better about due process somewhere around here, but it involves:

• an impartial tribunal to conduct the process
• notice to the subject of the proposed action and its justification
• the opportunity of the subject to question the witnesses and evidence for the action and to provide witnesses and evidence in opposition to the action
• advice and representation by legal counsel
• decisions based only on evidence and findings of fact
• written records of evidence presented, facts found, issues heard, and decisions rendered

There are claims that the FOID Card Review Board is an impartial tribunal, but I think that there's reason to doubt its impartiality. Otherwise the process is opaque. The justification for the revocation is documented after the fact. Then the subject has to beg for it back.

That people have to worry about what might be used against them without warning is the opposite of "not so terrible."

Edited August 31, 2025 at 09:28 AM by Euler

[Vodoun da Vinci]

My problems with Illinois revolve around our .gov and the Democrat Super Majority. The Democrats are trampling our 2A, 5A, and 14A Rights with impunity. 

 

Quote

That people have to worry about what might be used against them without warning is the opposite of "not so terrible."

 

Exactly, and agreed.

 

VooDoo

[Yeti]

IL is a joke when it comes to the 2A.  The D  leadership is continuously trying to find new ways to infringe and law abiding citizens cannot own or maintain firearms without restriction that are among the most common in the country.  We cannot own/maintain common firearms that fulfill the intent of the 2A, defending against government tyranny due to state government tyranny.  
 

There is a constant threat in IL to remove our rights, checked daily through an oppressive licensing system.  If the state was anywhere near decent, gun owners/groups/shops wouldn’t be spending millions in lawsuits to fight against continuous infringement from all angles and many of us wouldn’t have donated huge amounts of energy, time, and money.  This site might not even exist if IL didn’t infringe like it does.  I frequently visit free states… the 2A in IL is not close to be treated as correctly as it is in other places.  There may be reasons to live or remain in IL, but 2A freedom isn’t one.

[BobPistol]

You can get your FOID card yanked with a "clear and present danger" form being filled out by the correct people.

* no warning

* no hearing

* no due process 

* your 2A rights are gone.

 

Someone hates you and wants your 2A rights gone?   Easy peasy way to do it. 

[Smallbore]

When "the clear and present danger" issue popped in Illinois I blamed Pritzner. A week or so back I watched a couple out of state youtube lawyers dealing with clients having ancient issues causing current problems. I do not remember details but they blamed Biden administration ordering all states to go back thru records looking for issues with gun owners getting state to make these people prohibited.

 

[ragsbo]

If you think Illinois anti gun laws ain't that bad, the liberal socialist commie brainwashing has been effective. They SUCK green grimy stinking creek mud! 

[max503]

Yes our gun laws suck pond water but it's not enough to get me to pull up stakes and move.  

My wife would move if I threw a fit but I won't put her through that.

In life you have to learn to roll with the punches.  

I live in a very conservative county.

I've seen kids walk into town with their shotguns for a soda.  

Edited September 2, 2025 at 03:11 PM by max503

[max503]

It's not the gun laws that bother me so much.  It's knowing that the top politician in the state and his peanut gallery despise you and see you as an enemy.  That's what I find most bothersome.

[Smallbore]

At my age I have my guns and property. (Of course taxes will be a challenge) I wouldn't want to be young starting a life in Illinois. I my grave stone is already waiting for me in Illinois so my future is set. The young should think hard for their future.

[max503]

Chicago runs Illinois.  Makes it easy to see what the Democrats had in mind when they opened the border; Increase the populations in the major metro areas in order to take over the states.  

 

When the leaves are down I can see Missouri from my back yard.  If things got bad I feel I have an escape route.  

Edited September 2, 2025 at 06:27 PM by max503

[StuckInIllinois]

With all due respect, your definition of “tolerable” and mine differ greatly. 
 

 

 

I am unable to purchase the firearm I desire, certain magazines, threaded barrels, sound suppressors and a multitude of parts for guns that I may or may not possess. 
 

Tolerable? Not a chance. 

[max503]

On 8/31/2025 at 11:59 PM, BobPistol said:

You can get your FOID card yanked with a "clear and present danger" form being filled out by the correct people.

* no warning

* no hearing

* no due process 

* your 2A rights are gone.

 

Someone hates you and wants your 2A rights gone?   Easy peasy way to do it. 

 

Actually, it doesn't really sound all that "easy peasy" if you ask me.

 

Clear and Present Danger is defined by statute as a person who: (1) communicates a serious threat of physical violence against a reasonably identifiable victim or poses a clear and imminent risk of serious physical injury to himself, herself, or another person as determined by a physician, clinical psychologist, or qualified examiner; or (2) demonstrates threatening physical or verbal behavior, such as violent, suicidal, or assaultive threats, actions, or other behavior, as determined by a physician, clinical psychologist, qualified examiner, school administrator, or law enforcement official.

 

https://isp.illinois.gov/StaticFiles/docs/FirearmsSafety/Forms/CPD Reporting handout.pdf

Edited September 3, 2025 at 12:20 PM by max503

[BobPistol]

On 9/3/2025 at 5:18 AM, max503 said:

 

Actually, it doesn't really sound all that "easy peasy" if you ask me.

 

Clear and Present Danger is defined by statute as a person who: (1) communicates a serious threat of physical violence against a reasonably identifiable victim or poses a clear and imminent risk of serious physical injury to himself, herself, or another person as determined by a physician, clinical psychologist, or qualified examiner; or (2) demonstrates threatening physical or verbal behavior, such as violent, suicidal, or assaultive threats, actions, or other behavior, as determined by a physician, clinical psychologist, qualified examiner, school administrator, or law enforcement official.

 

https://isp.illinois.gov/StaticFiles/docs/FirearmsSafety/Forms/CPD Reporting handout.pdf

 

Look at #2.

 

School administrator - who tends to have a (D)ifferent set of values than gun owners.

Law enforcement official - remember, nobody EVER got a crap traffic ticket or parking ticket or crap arrest.     

[SiliconSorcerer]

On 9/2/2025 at 10:06 AM, max503 said:

I live in a very conservative county.

DuPage USED to be the most red in the entire US, now it's blue. 

Just pray it stays that way.... 

[Euler]

On September 3, 2025 at 07:18 AM CDT, max503 said:→

Actually, it doesn't really sound all that "easy peasy" if you ask me.

Clear and Present Danger is defined by statute as a person who: (1) communicates a serious threat of physical violence against a reasonably identifiable victim or poses a clear and imminent risk of serious physical injury to himself, herself, or another person as determined by a physician, clinical psychologist, or qualified examiner; or (2) demonstrates threatening physical or verbal behavior, such as violent, suicidal, or assaultive threats, actions, or other behavior, as determined by a physician, clinical psychologist, qualified examiner, school administrator, or law enforcement official.

https://isp.illinois.gov/StaticFiles/docs/FirearmsSafety/Forms/CPD Reporting handout.pdf

You seem to think that it's hard to communicate what someone else considers a serious threat. The "easy peasy" part is where a physician, clinical psychologist, qualified (mental health) examiner, school administrator, or law enforcement official writes a report alleging that you did so. There is no hearing, not even ex parte. There is no one who checks that the allegation is accurate. No person or agency has the authority to do so. Upon submission of a report, FOID revocation is automatic.

Before the Highland Park shooting, the ISP would at least validate the reports, then decide whether to act or not. After the Highland Park shooting, the ability to exercise discretion was taken away.

Even if the C&PD law were to be abolished, the problem is still that the FOID is a firearm license, which can be revoked by executive action. There is no other enumerated right which can be revoked by executive (or legislative) action. If police could arbitrarily suspend the 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendments, the constitutional protections afforded by those Amendments would be meaningless. Police could detain you without arrest, force a confession, and deny you a lawyer whenever it was convenient for them to do so. That's what the FOID is in Illinois for the 2nd Amendment, a legal fiction with the veneer of constitutionality.

[burningspear]

"That's what the FOID is in Illinois for the 2nd Amendment, a legal fiction with the veneer of constitutionality."  Well written. Superior chose of words. 

[burningspear]

Change "chose" to "choice" .............

[Tango7]

On 9/3/2025 at 2:26 PM, Euler said:

That's what the FOID is in Illinois for the 2nd Amendment, a legal fiction with the veneer of constitutionality.

 

In light of Murdock v Pennsylvania (SCOTUS stated it was unconstitutional to charge a fee to exercise a Right) why isn't Marbury v Madison (courts shall invalidate laws that conflict with the Constitution) being invoked?

[Euler]

On September 7, 2025 at 12:05 PM CDT, Tango7 said:→

In light of Murdock v Pennsylvania (SCOTUS stated it was unconstitutional to charge a fee to exercise a Right) why isn't Marbury v Madison (courts shall invalidate laws that conflict with the Constitution) being invoked?

Those are similar arguments raised in Guns Save Life v Raoul. CA7 ruled that Bruen asserts that shall-issue licensing is constitutional as long as the fee charged is not exorbitant. Of course, the court is conflating carry and possession for issuing the license. It also ignores the distinction between carry and possession for revocation, although GSL didn't argue about revocation.

[djmarkla]

The Northwest burbs are loaded with no guns signage. plus I have grandchildren to pick up from school. My carry would spend more time in the car waiting to be stolen than I would like. Illinois is not respectful of civil rights.  

[max503]

Seems some folks get a strange sense of satisfaction by saying Illinois has restrictive gun laws and they would never stoop so low as to live in such a place.

 

Jeez Louise. Nothing is perfect. You quit whining and you put on your big boy panties and make the best of it, just like anything else.

[Smallbore]

The young have not lived under freedom thus they are conditioned to accept unquestioned restrictions. Things will have to get much worse for them to open their eyes.(if they ever do)

[2A4Cook]

I am sick and tired of this communist state. It gets worse with each passing year.  Not only do they stomp on your natural and Constitutional rights at their whim, they extort from you the funds by which to accomplish said stomping.  I just bought a firearm accessory, out of state, on the internet.  It was under $775.  By the time the Democrat state and local taxes were added up, they were over $80.  $150 every 5 years to renew my CCL.  Buy a gun in Crook County?  Add in even more for them to use against you.  Only naive, indoctrinated non-thinkers vote for that party.  If you do, and you feel insulted, oh well.

[AlphaKoncepts aka CGS]

Shall not be infringed is pretty clear.

 

This state is terrible. Do you have a prescription or is it recreational?