Illinois General Assembly 5/27/2025

[Euler]

On May 27, 2025 at 03:24 PM CDT, mauserme said:→

Mr. Windhorst asks how a gun owner can know if someone from out of town is prohibited from gun ownership.

The answer is that the bill sets a "reasonable standard".

For something to be reasonable, it must be grounded in logic. Logic must have a basis. Lack of knowledge is a lack of basis. Therefore conclusions asserted without knowledge defy reason.

[crufflesmuth]

On 5/27/2025 at 3:17 PM, mauserme said:

Rep Hirschauer calls some of Mr. Sullivan's testimony a misrepresentation.

 

 

 

I would not expect nothing less from the Mom's Demand Action Cultists. They are going to kill the FCCA with this. An injunction won't be difficult. What is? being put on defense again because people in this state seem to enjoy washed up, rich and white suburban women. How is your vehicle a safe zone, with this passed? How can you guarantee that people near your vehicle (using proximate cause) are not prohibited? Stop enabling these people. Especially for those who live in a suburban county. This won't stop the PICA litigation, or the Hawaii litigation against permitting and "assault weapons". Please Maura, join a wine club.

[mauserme]

Senate Supplemental Calendar 1 is available.

 

The Senate stands adjourned until 5/28/2025 @ 11:00 AM.

 

 

[crufflesmuth]

On 5/27/2025 at 3:23 PM, mauserme said:

Ms. Hirschauer answers by recapping Bruen and her version of Rahimi, then saying it's important to remember her bill applies only when a minor is present.  Apparently rights don't apply to parents.

 

In answer to further questioning, she can cite no examples of historical storage laws similar to her bill.

 

 

 

 

 

Only applies when a minor is present? Is Ms. Hirschauer a practicing attorney? There is no guarantee a minor will not be present when an adult or similar, is out in public. I see what she did here.

[mauserme]

On 5/27/2025 at 3:59 PM, Euler said:

For something to be reasonable, it must be grounded in logic. Logic must have a basis. Lack of knowledge is a lack of basis. Therefore conclusions asserted without knowledge defy reason.

 

My description was phrased badly.  She was stating that the standard is what a reasonable person knows, or should have known.  Whether or not that standard is reasonable is open to debate.

 

 

[mauserme]

On 5/27/2025 at 6:40 PM, crufflesmuth said:

 

I would not expect nothing less from the Mom's Demand Action Cultists. They are going to kill the FCCA with this. An injunction won't be difficult. What is? being put on defense again because people in this state seem to enjoy washed up, rich and white suburban women. How is your vehicle a safe zone, with this passed? How can you guarantee that people near your vehicle (using proximate cause) are not prohibited? Stop enabling these people. Especially for those who live in a suburban county. This won't stop the PICA litigation, or the Hawaii litigation against permitting and "assault weapons". Please Maura, join a wine club.

 

The discussion about proximate cause was more focused on whether an action is related closely enough to an injury to be considered the cause of that injury.  This bill creates a proximate cause where it wouldn't otherwise exist by virtue of the minor's possession of the firearm being prima facie evidence of the cause.

 

 

 

[crufflesmuth]

On 5/27/2025 at 6:51 PM, mauserme said:

 

My description was phrased badly.  She was stating that the standard is what a reasonable person knows, or should have known.  Whether or not that standard is reasonable is open to debate.

 

 

 

Minors can operate motor vehicles at 16; 15 with a permit. This is where the "problem" starts, minors can operate a motor vehicle during business hours 6am-10pm weekdays, the same on weekends. Given that amount of traffic, not a single person with a CCL can guarantee a minor could not obtain access to a firearm through proximate cause models or similar. So, when she says "parent", I do not believe her. Show me your bar number and law license, or choke on some cheese and crackers - I am not buying that. To apply for a FOID, a person needs to be 21, by the way. 

 

How does a "reasonable" person, how does that person have ability and capacity to ensure an under 21 cannot access their real property, vehicle, or similar, without hiring 24-hour guards? 

 

What a person should have known? I can see that stretched easily with police and probable cause. You should have known that locking your holstered firearm in a locked center console would mean someone (who probably stalked you) would break in and steal it. We don't care that you have a FOID, or even a CCL. You're being arrested for UUW. Tell it to the judge.

 

And just what does a person know, Ms. Hirschauer? I am heartened people with English Degrees are bringing literary copy-paste to the ILGA, but I am curious: how can a person with a CCL actually comply with this law? I don't know what the average minor does nor am I inclined to wish so. I don't know who is selling weed to pay their rent. I don't know who is at risk. As a cultist from Mom's Demand Action, aren't the police tasked with ensuring people don't break into OUR property? Why are the police being turned against property owners here? 

 

So, a proximate cause exists (per the bill) because a minor possessed a firearm with no FOID (instant UUW) and used it in the commission of a crime? And instead of prosecuting the minor for UUW, it is now going to be the person with the FOID/CCL? That is rich. There could probably be AUUW elements as well, depending on the minor shooting the firearm they stole, since breaking into a locked car is already a felony and just bumps them up a few felonies. Of course, it is always the fault of people with permits and keys. Not the people breaking the law. 

 

 

[mauserme]

This is very odd.  The status page for SB8 has the bill held on 2nd reading.  Unless the House came back after adjournment this wouldn't be possible.  The committee didn't meet until after floor action had ended for the day.

 

[crufflesmuth]

On 5/27/2025 at 7:21 PM, mauserme said:

This is very odd.  The status page for SB8 has the bill held on 2nd reading.  Unless the House came back after adjournment this wouldn't be possible.  The committee didn't meet until after floor action had ended for the day.

 

 

Perhaps they used Calendar Order to back date the debate they already had? 

[mauserme]

On 5/27/2025 at 7:25 PM, crufflesmuth said:

 

Perhaps they used Calendar Order to back date the debate they already had? 

 

I don't know what that is, but the only way it could be legitimately held on 2nd reading is if it had been added to floor debate in a supplemental House calendar, and actually read a second time on the House floor.  There is no supplemental calendar in the House today.

 

 

[Upholder]

"Legitimately" is doing a lot of work in that sentence.  Rules are for the small minded.  All things are possible if reality is what you say it is.

[Upholder]

WATCH: ‘Safe gun storage’ bill ready for final passage in Illinois House

https://www.thecentersquare.com/illinois/article_a6242bbf-fcbc-4690-8b79-f033ee3d8638.html

 

 

[crufflesmuth]

On 5/27/2025 at 11:16 PM, Upholder said:

WATCH: ‘Safe gun storage’ bill ready for final passage in Illinois House

https://www.thecentersquare.com/illinois/article_a6242bbf-fcbc-4690-8b79-f033ee3d8638.html

 

 

 

We don't allow firearm safety training because buying a gun in this state is a consequence of socio-economic status. That alone is probably why Illinois has fewer gun owners. You need a working vehicle, income and property or lease to even contemplating basic firearm possession. Even when you purchase said firearm, there are numerous consequences criminal and otherwise the moment you walk outside your dwelling, let alone your vehicle. I am not a fan of the FOID. But I do see what they are trying to push. I won't say anything further on that. 

 

“A prohibited person under this bill is a person who is not eligible to have a FOID card or not eligible to own a gun under federal law,” she said. “I personally don't have a [FOID] card. That does not make me a prohibited person. I am eligible to apply and be granted a FOID card or I'm eligible under federal law. So that was a misrepresentation.”

 

So, she (Hirschauer) is admitting her bill is ambiguous? Under Illinois law, if you are a resident, you are by default a "prohibited" person pursuant to the Firearm Owner Identification Act, because the state has not identified yet, that you are eligible to possess firearms or ammunition. Until the state issues you a FOID card, you cannot claim that you otherwise are not a prohibited person. And let's discuss federal law for a minute. The FOID is constitutional, Ms. Hirschauer. And that means that for as long as you represent your constituency, it is 100% not relevant until you satisfy the state's requirements: being issued a FOID card. 

 

Misrepresentation? No. Interactions with law enforcement are what destroy communities. This bill is a time bomb. If the FOID is constitutional, then at de-minimis it means prosecuting people who steal firearms from vehicles and people who use them in the commission of a crime. Adding civil standing to victims of a victimless crime is an unforgiven mistake.

 

Sex Ed? Drug and Alcohol Training?

 

Most people do not understand the social implications of having sexual "interactions". The reason sex ed is pushed (according to progressivism) is because of the immediate and preceptive consequences of a pregnancy, financial or otherwise. Sexual interactions between teenagers or between adults have more social and economic consequences than shooting a gun at a car jacker. That is why "they" bring awareness. Because there are more penalties, due to those nuances.

 

Drug and alcohol training? If putting a warning label on a product is "training", then purchasing a Beretta pistol should

exempt me from the state's CCL training requirements. 

 

Let's talk about the tax credit for people who purchased firearm safes. The state would have a shadow registry, with that "credit", just like they could with

witness slips and voting records. 

 

The problem with reporting stolen firearms for most private individuals is not with themselves, but the police. If you get a speeding ticket, it can take another business day for the police to enter that information with the SOS database, Lexis and the like. 48 hours will really be interesting. This bill should penalize minors. Not parents or similar. Our police do not deserve this and neither do the citizens who support them. 

 

 

 

[AlphaKoncepts aka CGS]

On 5/27/2025 at 1:38 PM, mauserme said:

 

Yes, and I think signing this into law would be Governor Pritzker's admission that he will never be elected President.

 

 

 

 

Please explain that one to me. You act as if his supporters care about due process or the Constitution in general. 

[mauserme]

I'm pretty sure the Biden/Harris supporters thought the same about the gun control they supported, along with all the additional baggage all three have been carrying around.

 

 

[countyline]

On 5/28/2025 at 2:18 PM, AlphaKoncepts aka CGS said:

Please explain that one to me. You act as if his supporters care about due process or the Constitution in general. 

 

Kinda what I was thinking, but Mauser is right, the anti-gun liberal white woman vote can still be beaten back in the swing states. The last dem poll I saw, Jay Bob wasn't registering above 2%.