Trump shooter identified via AR15 serial #.

[top_notch]

  Watching the Kim Cheatle hearing today.  The SS / FBI were able to identify the shooter in under 30 minutes through the serial number of the AR found on the rooftop.  Tell me again the gov't doesn't have a database of what gunowners have.

[davel501]

Hard to say anything just on that. You would likely build the filing system and the database the same way. BATFE is always doing serial number lookups so they would want to order the files by Manufacturer then Serial Number. Someone could walk out to the row where DPMS is, find the box with that range of serial numbers then run through the 4473s ordered by serial number pretty quickly.

 

If it was in a database I would have expected one of the secret squirrel types that were there to scan the mfg and serial number on the rifle with their phone camera and get back everything about the owners as fast as an internet search.

[SiliconSorcerer]

I've never heard it identified as a AR-15 only an AR like firearm.

 

They go to the manufacturer they know where they sent it, they go to the FFL and see who they delivered it to, they go to the buyer and find out where it went unless it was over 10 years old and they LEGALLY started the fireplace with the paperwork like all good firearm owners sellers should. 

Edited July 22, 2024 at 04:19 PM by SiliconSorcerer
just my grammar sucks.

[davel501]

On 7/22/2024 at 11:16 AM, SiliconSorcerer said:

I've never heard it identified as a AR-15 only an AR like firearm.

 

They go to the manufacturer they know where they sent it, they go to the FFL and see who they sent it to, they go to the buyer and find out where it went unless it was over 10 years old and they LEGALLY started the fireplace with the paperwork like all good firearm owners sellers should. 

 

It was identified as a DPMS AR pretty quickly: Gun used in Trump shooting: New details about rifle emerge (usatoday.com)

 

Sounds like your basic $600 3 MOA AR.

[SiliconSorcerer]

Ah I kept hearing AR like, I thought for sure it would be AR-15 from second one if it was....

[Euler]

ATF runs firearm traces all the time.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/submitting-firearms-trace-requests

[top_notch]

On 7/22/2024 at 3:44 PM, Euler said:

ATF runs firearm traces all the time.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/submitting-firearms-trace-requests

 

They can determine an owner, from a purchase 14 years ago, in under 30 minutes, without a database?  Wow!

 

[Euler]

On July 22, 2024 at 04:41 PM CDT, top_notch said:→

They can determine an owner, from a purchase 14 years ago, in under 30 minutes, without a database? Wow!

Your sarcasm is misplaced, because the answer is "Yes, they can," especially if there have been no private sales between manufacturer and current owner, which was apparently the case here.

[davel501]

The funny part is that if they called the manufacturer, they would have looked in their database to see when the rifle was born and where it went.

 

The FFL would have searched their database in response to the ATF calling since going through paper copies would suck.

 

Given the reason for the search, both searches were probably done live on the phone with the ATF. 

 

Still hard to imagine it taking more than 10 minutes even if they searched their PDF files first.

 

The thing the ATF can't do is quickly produce a list of the last known owner for every AR-15. If they already have it in pdf form, it probably wouldn't take terribly long to read these into a database. Maybe a few months.

[Flynn]

Let's not also forget many gun owners willfully 'register' their firearms with the manufacturer for warranty reasons and/or they order directly from the manufacturer and have it shipped to an FFL for delivery, in both cases the manufacturer is going to have the owner info in a database that they will likely open right up to any law enforcement that contacts them...

[Jeffrey]

They tracked down the HP shooter the same way.  The gun used was found and driven to ATF Chicago office and traced back to Crimo in very short time.

[ealcala31]

I do not believe the shooter was identified from the AR15 serial #, regardless of what the article says. The rifle was sold to his dad, not the shooter. Now after an interview with his dad, they identified that the shooter was his son. So, protocol for a gun trace is 24hrs. Anytime something like this happens, its known as a "HOT" trace. If there is a well known gun store in the area, LE probably went straight there and looked through his docs immediately. Two, if the gun store that the shooter's father used to buy the firearm went out of business (OOB), the FFL Dealer would take all of his 4473s to the ATF Office for record retention. ATF has been asked about this process b4, including the current ATF Director, many times ATF personnel will enter the OOB 4473s into their firearm database. Which they are not supposed to do. Their argument is that a situation like this could take days for them to dig through 4473s of an OOB FFL Dealer.

[davel501]

On 7/23/2024 at 7:33 PM, ealcala31 said:

I do not believe the shooter was identified from the AR15 serial #, regardless of what the article says. The rifle was sold to his dad, not the shooter. Now after an interview with his dad, they identified that the shooter was his son. So, protocol for a gun trace is 24hrs. Anytime something like this happens, its known as a "HOT" trace. If there is a well known gun store in the area, LE probably went straight there and looked through his docs immediately. Two, if the gun store that the shooter's father used to buy the firearm went out of business (OOB), the FFL Dealer would take all of his 4473s to the ATF Office for record retention. ATF has been asked about this process b4, including the current ATF Director, many times ATF personnel will enter the OOB 4473s into their firearm database. Which they are not supposed to do. Their argument is that a situation like this could take days for them to dig through 4473s of an OOB FFL Dealer.

 

They do not have a database. They have a file share. They are as close as you can get to a database without having one. 

[ealcala31]

News Max this morning said the shooter was identified using a gun sales receipt. NOT a 4473, but a receipt. Obviously, there is more than meets the eye and in a normal circumstance, some republicans would be angry at a potential database. In this case, I don't think anyone is going to care, at all. I am interested to know where they found that receipt so fast. Maybe posted on social media?

[richp]

Isn't it funny how we leap to all these various speculative conclusions, when it could be as simple as them starting by going to his home and asking his father about weapons in the house, and him going to check and see if they are all there.

[SiliconSorcerer]

On 7/24/2024 at 8:17 AM, richp said:

Isn't it funny how we leap to all these various speculative conclusions, when it could be as simple as them starting by going to his home and asking his father about weapons in the house, and him going to check and see if they are all there.

Being the father called the police and told them when he took the rifle I'm surprised it took that long. 

 

Edited July 24, 2024 at 01:29 PM by SiliconSorcerer

[Kingcreek]

It’s possible it was facial recognition if he had ever been arrested or backgrounded for anything or maybe even passport or TSA file.

I was a volunteer high school coach and someone checked the wrong box. Instead of just fingerprints the local PD said “just take a step back”. I did and then realized they had just captured a mugshot pic.

the computer started analyzing my pic and a name came up that wasn’t me.

I said WTH! The officer just laughed and said it was just the closest match and I must not be in the system.

I liked not being in the system.

[ealcala31]

On 7/24/2024 at 8:17 AM, richp said:

Isn't it funny how we leap to all these various speculative conclusions, when it could be as simple as them starting by going to his home and asking his father about weapons in the house, and him going to check and see if they are all there.

 

Yeah I brought that up in my 1st comment. It would be nice if they explained that they got the receipt from his father.

 

On 7/23/2024 at 7:33 PM, ealcala31 said:

I do not believe the shooter was identified from the AR15 serial #, regardless of what the article says. The rifle was sold to his dad, not the shooter. Now after an interview with his dad, they identified that the shooter was his son.

 

[JTHunter]

For many years, I have kept every receipt in an envelope for that month, then total them into an Excel spreadsheet as an "expense report".  After a year, those receipts get added to the bag of paper for recycling EXCEPT for large purchases.  Receipts for things like HVAC work, plumbing, etc., get kept for at least 5 years.  Paperwork for things like re-shingling my roof 8 years ago gets saved until the roof is redone again or I no longer live here.

Receipts for any firearm that I have bought since 2000 are still here.

[ealcala31]

According to our FBI Director, the father bought the weapon and later on sold it legally to his son. The director stated both sales were legally done. I am dying to know how the father's 911 conversation went. USSS was sleeping behind the wheel and almost got former Pres. Trump killed. I've only seen 1 head roll, speaking righteously, way more should go down for this...

[ragsbo]

Where is the clamor for the parents to be charged like the school shooter up north? They should have known he had mental problems since that is their field of work! They also let him have the weapon he used to shoot Trump! SO if the parents up north are guilty, then so are these.

[soundguy]

On 7/25/2024 at 1:43 PM, ragsbo said:

Where is the clamor for the parents to be charged like the school shooter up north? They should have known he had mental problems since that is their field of work! They also let him have the weapon he used to shoot Trump! SO if the parents up north are guilty, then so are these.

Could be the difference in age. 
 

Cheers,

Tim

[Flynn]

On 7/24/2024 at 7:07 PM, ealcala31 said:

I've only seen 1 head roll, speaking righteously, way more should go down for this...

 

Rolled right into a $55K a year pension from what I have heard unless Congress shows some spine and takes action stripping her of that pension...

[fxdpntc]

On 7/25/2024 at 5:39 PM, Flynn said:

 

Rolled right into a $55K a year pension from what I have heard unless Congress shows some spine and takes action stripping her of that pension...

 She’s been Senior Executive Service since 2016, current salary $280,000, 27 years service. I think she has to wait until she’s 60 for full benefits. She is now 53-54. 

[ragsbo]

On 7/25/2024 at 2:43 PM, soundguy said:

Could be the difference in age. 
 

Cheers,

Tim

Could be it does not fit their agenda

[soundguy]

On 7/25/2024 at 7:43 PM, ragsbo said:

Could be it does not fit their agenda

Probably not.
 

The PA shooter was an adult who used his father’s rifle. The MI shooter was a minor who used the gun his parents bought for him. And it’s MI vs PA. There is no safe storage law in PA. Crooks’ father contacted police in the day of the shooting, concerned with the whereabouts of his son. The son is dead and can’t point to the parents. 

 

There are key differences. No telling what the local district attorney might do as they learn more about the shooter. One day it could become common practice to charge gun owners when their guns are used in crimes. 
 

Cheers,

Tim

[Flynn]

On 7/25/2024 at 8:09 PM, soundguy said:

The PA shooter was an adult who used his father’s rifle.

 

The latest I heard is that the father at some point 'legally' sold the rifle to him, so there could potentially be some liability both civil and criminal if there are any i's not dotted and t's not crossed during that sale...

[Flynn]

On 7/25/2024 at 6:42 PM, fxdpntc said:

 She’s been Senior Executive Service since 2016, current salary $280,000, 27 years service. I think she has to wait until she’s 60 for full benefits. She is now 53-54. 

 

The $55K number I put out there I found on a site where the author said they came to that number using her current early retirement age and plugging that into the FERS pension worksheet...

 

So they likely figured in any penalties for early retirement, or she may qualify for unreduced benefits as well...

 

https://www.cbp.gov/node/356709/printable/print

[richp]

She previously retired from the Secret Service and then was reinstated. There most likely are different rules for re-employed annuitants who then retire again.

 

While I don't know for sure, she was pretty high up when she retired the first time. My guess is her original annuity was quite a bit higher than $55,000. So consequently whatever annuity she has going forward would be more then that.

[ealcala31]

She might be some years short of getting full government retirement benefits, but she IS one of them. Give it a year if former President Trump loses, the Progressives will find her another government job to complete her remaining years. Sh!!!t, even if former Pres Trump wins, some Progressive will sneak her into some supervisor position in the EPA, BLM, ATF (😁), or some other .gov position to ride into the sunset. Then become a MSNBC Security Specialist Analyst. You can't make this "bleeep" up...