S&W v Mexico - Product liability

[Euler]

Docket

Petition for Certiorari said:

The Mexican Government has sued leading members of the American firearms industry, seeking to hold them liable for harms inflicted by Mexican drug cartels. According to Mexico, America's firearms companies have engaged in a series of business practices for decades -- from selling semi-automatic rifles, to making magazines that hold over ten rounds, to failing to impose various sales restrictions -- that have created a supply of firearms later smuggled across the border and ultimately used by the cartels to commit crimes. Mexico asks for billions of dollars in damages, plus extensive injunctive relief imposing new gun-control measures in the United States.

The district court dismissed the case under the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA), which generally bars suits against firearms companies based on criminals misusing their products. But the First Circuit reversed. It held that PLCAA does not bar this suit because Mexico stated a claim that defendants' business practices have aided and abetted firearms trafficking to the cartels, proximately harming the Mexican government.

The questions presented are:

1. Whether the production and sale of firearms in the United States is the "proximate cause" of alleged injuries to the Mexican government stemming from violence committed by drug cartels in Mexico.

2. Whether the production and sale of firearms in the United States amounts to "aiding and abetting" illegal firearms trafficking because firearms companies allegedly know that some of their products are unlawfully trafficked.
...

Edited April 29, 2024 at 12:44 AM by Euler

[mikew]

Silly Mexico, they would still be suffering under a dictatorship if it weren't for

Pancho Villa and his trusty Winchester 1894 30-30, which was definitely a top-drawer choice in 1910.

 

If Mexico normalized firearms ownership again, perhaps they could stem the tide of the narcos.

 

The term "30-30" is revered in Mexico, even if they have forgotten what it means...

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=mexico+30-30

 

 

[Kingcreek]

Why didn’t Mexico sue Obama and Holden for operation fast and furious?

Did the Biden admin or someone in it encouraged this and opened the door for it?

[JTHunter]

On 4/28/2024 at 9:39 PM, Kingcreek said:

Why didn’t Mexico sue Obama and Holden for operation fast and furious?

Did the Biden admin or someone in it encouraged this and opened the door for it?

 

Considering how "effectively" the Mexican police are doing their jobs, maybe THEY should be the ones sued.

[spanishjames]

Cartels typically drive around in F150 pickup trucks. Will the Ford motor company now be sued for "aiding and abetting" trafficking and kidnappings because they allegedly know that some of their vehicles are used unlawfully?

[Euler]

On July 17, the Court scheduled the petition for conference on September 30.

[Upholder]

On October 4th, the Court announced that they have granted the Writ of Certiorari and will hear this case this term.

[Euler]

On October 28, S&W asked to extend the briefing deadlines.

On November 4, the Court set the following schedule:

11/26: S&W's brief due
01/10: Mexico's brief due

[Euler]

On March 4, the Court heard oral arguments. (MP3)

[SiliconSorcerer]

On 3/5/2025 at 12:55 AM, Euler said:

On March 4, the Court heard oral arguments. (MP3)

Why didn't they go to the back of the line like everyone else....

[Upholder]

On 3/5/2025 at 6:06 AM, SiliconSorcerer said:

Why didn't they go to the back of the line like everyone else....

 

SCOTUS refusing to hear the case would have allowed the 1st Circuit's decision to allow the case to proceed, when PLCAA should provide immunity from having to go through the process.  We wanted SCOTUS to take this case at this point or the floodgates of lawsuits in violation of PLCAA would have been opened immediately.

[lilguy]

Straw purchasing has always been an issue. Accusing everyone in the sales chain of aiding and abetting illegal international gun trafficking is a REAL stretch. According to this discussion they are not targeting named dealers who allegedly make the straw purchases. That doesn’t make sense to my non legal mind.

[Euler]

If the objective is to disarm us, limiting enforcement of existing laws to a few retailers won't get it done.

[SiliconSorcerer]

Wonder if "fast and furious" will come up.  Mexico suing for that I could understand 

[davel501]

Supreme Court blocks lawsuit against gun manufacturers filed by Mexican government. Unanimous decision. 

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/supreme-court-blocks-lawsuit-gun-manufacturer-filed-mexican/story?id=120902600

[EdDinIL]

On 6/5/2025 at 9:43 AM, davel501 said:

Unanimous decision. 

insert fainting gif here

 

That's excellent news for once.

[davel501]

On 6/5/2025 at 9:48 AM, EdDinIL said:

insert fainting gif here

 

That's excellent news for once.

 

The other rulings issued today, while outside the scope of this site, are surprising too. Especially when you look at who wrote some of the opinions. 

[mauserme]

This is a little off topic but, in today's ruling, Justice Kagan observed that "The AR–15 is the most popular rifle in the country."  Yesterday in Snope, Justice Kavanagh stated that the court "should and presumably will address the AR-15 issue soon, in the next Term or two.”.

 

Is it possible that SCOUTS is signaling the states that they better clean up their acts while they have the chance?

 

 

 

 

 

[Matt B]

On 6/5/2025 at 12:37 PM, mauserme said:

This is a little off topic but, in today's ruling, Justice Kagan observed that "The AR–15 is the most popular rifle in the country."  Yesterday in Snope, Justice Kavanagh stated that the court "should and presumably will address the AR-15 issue soon, in the next Term or two.”.

 

Is it possible that SCOUTS is signaling the states that they better clean up their acts while they have the chance?

 

 

 

 

 

The justices knew this decision was coming down when they denied cert it Snope so it’s always possible, but after seeing a decade of bad faith arguments from the various court of appeals denying challenges to AWB I don’t see how they plausibly expected this language to tip the balance here. 

[EdDinIL]

On 6/5/2025 at 12:37 PM, mauserme said:

in today's ruling, Justice Kagan observed that "The AR–15 is the most popular rifle in the country." 

She'll still want them banned for that very reason, "common use" test be damned.

[Euler]

Opinion said:

Because Mexico's complaint does not plausibly allege that the defendant gun manufacturers aided and abetted gun dealers' unlawful sales of firearms to Mexican traffickers, PLCAA bars the lawsuit.

[mab22]

This might be what we are looking for….For other case’s regarding the “AWB’s”.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/23-1141_lkgn.pdf

@mauserme. @Molly B.
@Tvandermyde @Euler

Quote

Finally, Mexico’s allegations about the manufacturers’ “design and marketing decisions” add nothing of conse- quence. Brief for Respondent 23. As noted above, Mexico here focuses on the manufacturers’ production of “military style” ""assault weapons"", among which it includes AR–15 ri- fles, AK–47 rifles, and .50 caliber sniper rifles. See supra, at 6; App. to Pet. for Cert. 121a. But those products are both widely legal and bought by many ordinary consumers. (The AR–15 is the most popular rifle in the country. See T. Gross, How the AR–15 Became the Bestselling Rifle in the U. S., NPR (Apr. 20, 2023.) The manufacturers cannot be charged with assisting in criminal acts just because Mexi- can cartel members like those guns too. The same is true of firearms with Spanish-language names or graphics al- luding to Mexican history. See supra, at 6. Those guns may be “coveted by the cartels,” as Mexico alleges; but they also may appeal, as the manufacturers rejoin, to “millions of law-abiding Hispanic Americans.” Tr. of Oral Arg 80; Reply Brief 20. 

 

Edited June 6, 2025 at 12:49 PM by mab22

[Tvandermyde]

Yea I was the First to think this could happen and talk about it and 
i was right go look at my vid on Snope denial

[crufflesmuth]

It makes sense why they denied cert for Snope and Ocean State.