Biden, DOJ: Every gun sale will requires a FFL. Every one.

[mikew]

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2024/04/11/gun-show-loophole-rule/3581712833608/

 

April 11 (UPI) -- The White House said Thursday that the Justice Department will implement a new rule that expands background checks by closing the so-called "gun show loophole."

 

The new rule requires all gun dealers selling weapons in a brick-and-mortar store to have a license and conduct background checks, including sales at home, online, or temporary booths at gun shows.

-----------

The new rule also clarifies that a license will be required for a single sales, ending the practice of sellers using the loophole of selling a small number of guns or people claiming the purchase is part of their personal collection.

[solareclipse2]

I thought that was already a law or did they change the definition of "gun dealer"?

[BobPistol]

They're just saying there is no law when there is a law, only to ignore enforcing the law when it promotes their political agenda.

[mikew]

How many personally owned guns do you sell before the AFT considers you "in the business?"

We've previously discussed how there was no firm number.      

 

Now it's "1".

 

Or is it "0".  better have an FFL before you think about selling a gun?

 

How will the AFT feel about 147 million FFLs?

 

#PokeTheBear

 

 

 

[solareclipse2]

On 4/11/2024 at 12:31 PM, mikew said:

How many personally owned guns do you sell before the AFT considers you "in the business?"

We've previously discussed how there was no firm number.      

 

Now it's "1".

 

Or is it "0".  better have an FFL before you think about selling a gun?

 

How will the AFT feel about 147 million FFLs?

 

#PokeTheBear

 

 

 

 

Another reason for the "No sell, only buy" mantra.

[Jeffrey]

What about the gang bangers?  I assume they will continue in the same fashion as always, with impunity.

[davel501]

On 4/11/2024 at 12:31 PM, mikew said:

How many personally owned guns do you sell before the AFT considers you "in the business?"

We've previously discussed how there was no firm number.      

 

Now it's "1".

 

Or is it "0".  better have an FFL before you think about selling a gun?

 

How will the AFT feel about 147 million FFLs?

 

#PokeTheBear

 

 

 

 

Right now the question is whether you sold the firearm for more than you paid for it. If you make money on the deal then you are a gun dealer.

[yurimodin]

Dealers already have to do this.....otherwise welder, 3d printer, drill press goes brrrrrrt.

 

Also no text history or tradition of FFL's or 4473's during the founding era.

[ragsbo]

IF it is NOT the current law, then how can they "make" law or "change" law? Does that not require congress to act??

[richp]

When I'm visiting my favorite gun show down in Alabama every winter, you can see an example of what they're probably going to use as an illustration. (Down there, of course, there is no FOID system, or anything like that for private transactions.)

 

So what you see is two tables side by side -- one operated by an FFL and the other by a private individual -- the latter of which may have a rather large number of guns out for sale. The FFL will have a laptop set up that he can use to get necessary clearances. The private seller simply takes your money and hands you the gun.

 

It will be very interesting to see how they draw this regulation in such a way that it would withstand a legal challenge on the question of defining the nature of an actual private sale.

[davel501]

On 4/11/2024 at 4:18 PM, ragsbo said:

IF it is NOT the current law, then how can they "make" law or "change" law? Does that not require congress to act??

 

Supreme Court likely to discard Chevron - SCOTUSblog

[ealcala31]

On 4/11/2024 at 6:07 PM, richp said:

When I'm visiting my favorite gun show down in Alabama every winter, you can see an example of what they're probably going to use as an illustration. (Down there, of course, there is no FOID system, or anything like that for private transactions.)

 

So what you see is two tables side by side -- one operated by an FFL and the other by a private individual -- the latter of which may have a rather large number of guns out for sale. The FFL will have a laptop set up that he can use to get necessary clearances. The private seller simply takes your money and hands you the gun.

 

It will be very interesting to see how they draw this regulation in such a way that it would withstand a legal challenge on the question of defining the nature of an actual private sale.

That's pretty much how it goes. John Crump talked about this 2day on his YouTube Podcast. This regulation is defining statutory language in the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act. Cam Edwards talked about it also on Bearing Arms w/the Reloaded guy. This regulation also has a caveat for FFL Dealers who do not renew their FFL.

[mab22]

On 4/11/2024 at 6:20 PM, davel501 said:

 

Supreme Court likely to discard Chevron - SCOTUSblog

Let’s pray they do! 
Enough with the unelected, unaccountable, bureaucrats making the rules. We pay congress ALOT OF FREAKING MONEY to MAKE laws, not just throw it to some agency. 

[Flynn]

I doubt the policy will survive court challenges, but in the meantime historically the ATF has been quite feisty about people getting an FFL just to have an FFL or to be an FFL hobbyist and with that stance has historically revoked or denied FFL issuance because they didn't deem it a legit business...  I guess now with this policy change every Tom, Dick and Harry that sells a single firearm is entitled to be an FFL without question as that is their new threshold for being an FFL...

 

I might have to seriously consider getting my FFL 07 with Class 2 SOT so I can have some inventory to 'test' after I buy one gun to sell...  Should be easy enough to keep the books tidy with only a single sale and current inventory, none of that hassle of actually selling on a regular basis...

[Hap]

This freaking thing is over 400 pages. Leafing through it I have the impression that any gun I might want to sell will be a little pile of rust before I finish reading it. So far all I can tell is that the language seems designed to obscure, rather than clarify, DOJ’s intent.

[mikew]

Hap, got a link?

[JTHunter]

On 4/11/2024 at 2:02 PM, Jeffrey said:

What about the gang bangers?  I assume they will continue in the same fashion as always, with impunity.

 

Of course they will as they don't "comply" with any law(s) that don't suit them.  Much like the democrats.

[Smallbore]

Looks like my kids will have to settle for iron, not cash.

[Hap]

On 4/12/2024 at 10:31 AM, mikew said:

Hap, got a link?

Here's a link to the announcement on atf.gov. The actual steaming pile is linked about a screen down on the page, but there are some other references on the announcement page which may be useful. An overview is promised "soon" (perhaps after someone explains it to them).

 

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/final-rule-definition-engaged-business-dealer-firearms

[Quiet Observer]

On 4/13/2024 at 2:25 PM, Hap said:

Here's a link to the announcement on atf.gov. The actual steaming pile is linked about a screen down on the page, but there are some other references on the announcement page which may be useful. An overview is promised "soon" (perhaps after someone explains it to them).

 

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/final-rule-definition-engaged-business-dealer-firearms

It looks like sales and gifts to close family members, if not otherwise forbidden, would be allowed. I did a search for "family" in the link. I got 32 hits, but none noted level of relationship, e.g. father, aunt, or child. A few mentioned family tragedies.

[Black Flag]

On 4/13/2024 at 3:58 PM, Quiet Observer said:

It looks like sales and gifts to close family members, if not otherwise forbidden, would be allowed.

Soul Brother?

[Molly B.]

 

[DoYouFeelLucky]

Wait until they realize how much more tax money is generated by requiring anyone selling a vehicle to sell it through a dealer.

[TomKoz]

Arkansas Senators Sound the Alarm After Discovering What the ATF Failed to Do Before Fatal Raid on Clinton Airport Exec
 

…. 

Malinowski got in a shootout on March 19 with ATF agents serving a 6 a.m. search warrant on his home in Litte Rock. He died from injuries received during the gunplay on March 21.

In the search warrant affidavit, the ATF claimed Malinowski was selling guns without a license. Bud Cummins, the lawyer for the Malinowski family, claimed Bryan Malinowski was selling guns legally through the gun-show loophole provision …

 

https://www.westernjournal.com/arkansas-senators-sound-alarm-discovering-atf-failed-fatal-raid-clinton-airport-exec/?utm_source=Email&utm_medium=CTBreaking&utm_campaign=breaking&utm_content=conservative-tribune

[Flynn]

26 states are now suing Biden over this!

 

https://redstate.com/jeffc/2024/05/01/legal-showdown-26-states-file-lawsuits-targeting-atf-anti-gunner-rule-n2173621

[MrTriple]

On 5/1/2024 at 6:04 PM, Flynn said:

26 states are now suing Biden over this!

 

https://redstate.com/jeffc/2024/05/01/legal-showdown-26-states-file-lawsuits-targeting-atf-anti-gunner-rule-n2173621

At this point, I question if the Biden administration is even trying to win,l or if they're just doing this for the optics and to play to the base.

[Hap]

Expect ATF, like every other Federal regulatory agency, to spend every second between now and the election adopting as much of the D regulatory wishlist as possible. The only way it will ease off a bit is if Biden manages to win in November, but that doesn't really help matters any.