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The door just opened quite a bit to challenge any carry license that requires testing and licensing and even FOID...


Flynn

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For handguns specifically…there is an additional, preliminary step: You must also obtain a “handgun qualification license.” … Getting that license requires, among other things, submitting fingerprints to undergo a background “investigation” and taking a four-hour-long “firearms safety training course” in which you must fire at least one live round. Then, after submitting your application for this extra license, you must wait up to thirty days for approval before you can start the rest of the process.

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Plaintiffs seek to enjoin the state from enforcing only this additional, preliminary handgun-licensure requirement. And Plaintiffs’ challenge must succeed. The challenged law restricts the ability of law-abiding adult citizens to possess handguns, and the state has not presented a historical analogue that justifies its restriction; indeed, it has seemingly admitted that it couldn’t find one. Under the Supreme Court’s new burden-shifting test for … these claims, Maryland’s law thus fails, and we must enjoin its enforcement.

 

And the zinger is in the dissent, she sees the writing on the wall and is in panic mode, emphasis mine...

 

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In this facial constitutional challenge to a non-discretionary handgun permitting law, the majority fundamentally misapplies Bruen. The majority bases its holding on the premise that if a law affects a prospective handgun purchaser’s ability to obtain a handgun “now,” the law is presumptively unconstitutional. This sweeping rule flies directly in the face of Bruen’s discussion of non-discretionary “shall-issue” laws and is not supported by any Supreme Court precedent. Simply stated, the majority’s hyperaggressive view of the Second Amendment would render presumptively unconstitutional most non-discretionary laws in this country requiring a permit to purchase a handgun (permitting laws).

 

I also got a giggle out of her proclaiming that the concept that Martin Luther King, Jr proclaimed when he said "A right delayed is a right denied" is incorrect...

 

https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2023/11/21/fourth-circuit-appeals-court-maryland-handgun-license-requirement-unconstitutional/

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On 11/22/2023 at 3:26 AM, Dumak_from_arfcom said:

They know if Bruen is faithfully applied that nearly all gun control laws are unconstitutional.  

 

 

I believe that is a misunderstanding. What does the Post-Bruen world look like? 

 

No FOID; constitutional carry. Registration and licensing will definitely be the next battle. I don't think we will return to the world of 1967,:where you can just

walk in and buy any firearm. I do think courts will allow some measure of regulation: background checks and age limits. If Constitutional Carry happens, police 

will have more discretion than now to stop and frisk people. You won't have the strict measures, which typically exist in a right to carry apparatus. 

 

There has to be some form of regulating firearms, while not banning them or discriminating against people who 

want to own, carry and use them. That's the real issue. 

 

Watch out for Gavin Newsom, who is trying to apply Mexican legal theory to English common law

systems.

 

 

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On 11/22/2023 at 12:43 AM, Flynn said:

 

And the zinger is in the dissent, she sees the writing on the wall and is in panic mode, emphasis mine...

 

 

I also got a giggle out of her proclaiming that the concept that Martin Luther King, Jr proclaimed when he said "A right delayed is a right denied" is incorrect...

 

https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2023/11/21/fourth-circuit-appeals-court-maryland-handgun-license-requirement-unconstitutional/

It looks like Maryland has 2 types of permits, one to purchase and one to carry. I think the decision only covered the purchase permit. 

Licensing Division (maryland.gov)

 

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On 11/22/2023 at 9:43 PM, Quiet Observer said:

It looks like Maryland has 2 types of permits, one to purchase and one to carry. I think the decision only covered the purchase permit. 

Licensing Division (maryland.gov)

 

 

So far...  FOID should fail for the same reasons, we just need to get it in front of Judges that will follow Heller/Bruen precedent...

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On 11/23/2023 at 2:36 PM, Flynn said:

 

So far...  FOID should fail for the same reasons, we just need to get it in front of Judges that will follow Heller/Bruen precedent...

 

The FOID does not just deal with purchase, acquisition and "identification", it also deals with possession. Aside from right to carry, I don't see how the state fulfills it's burden on historical text and tradition. They could still play games. They could do what NY did and have a fee for transfers/checks. 

 

If the FOID is scraped, I do think they would do a fee check for their own version of NICS. So you might still pay a FOID fee, while not

needing one anymore. 

 

Not a single trooper will ever admit: the FOID system is one that slows lawful acquisition of firearms. The cards could be issued same-day,

even with ISP's long and technical manual of best practices and thing to look for when determining whether an applicant meets statutory requirements

(especially with their checks). 

 

The identification argument is not really strong. The police know who owns what and possibly more. BATFE has a technical and forensics branch that just opened up in Chicago.

There are  also the .PDF copies of 4473's, BATFE may have. Additionally, there are on-site records Illinois State Police may summon on demand. Identifying who is and who is not

a lawful possessor isn't really an issue, because you can't: you need to first arrest, charge and prosecute a person to determine that. If we're talking about spirit and tradition

as Illinois/FOID UUW goes. 

 

This is a VERY strong reasoning, because in Maryland, the purchase permit was just that: once you had it, you did not need it for mere possession. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by crufflesmuth
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On 11/22/2023 at 4:04 AM, Euler said:

 

It isn't just the Maryland case.  Washington Gun Law has a good piece about both the MD case as well as a state judge in Oregon overturning their similar law, Measure 114.  Mr. Kirk make clear reference to our FOID situation and its restrictions and compares them to those 2 cases.

 

 

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On 11/26/2023 at 9:03 PM, JTHunter said:

 

It isn't just the Maryland case.  Washington Gun Law has a good piece about both the MD case as well as a state judge in Oregon overturning their similar law, Measure 114.  Mr. Kirk make clear reference to our FOID situation and its restrictions and compares them to those 2 cases.

 

 

I am always amazed that this guy can pull up cases that are similar if not identical to Illinois, and the cases seem to win EVERY TIME!

Yet all we seem to get is the same Lucy and Charlie Brown with the football.

It might be worth seeing if we can hire this guy for our Illinois cases, if not for several new ones that we just can’t seem to get any traction on, LIKE FOID!

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On 11/26/2023 at 5:05 PM, stockboyy said:

At some point the FOID-ACT must be judged for what it really is.

A Total / Blanket Ban. Making contraband of all firearms and ammo in the Illinois Jurisdiction. --

And now we can add firearm-parts and magazines.--

???
The FOID-ACT?  really?

 

The PICA Act, OTOH, it's a big ban.


The FOID-ACT?  Unconstitutional, yes.
Total / Blanket Ban?  please explain.

 

 

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On 11/27/2023 at 8:41 AM, Black Flag said:

???
The FOID-ACT?  really?

 

The PICA Act, OTOH, it's a big ban.


The FOID-ACT?  Unconstitutional, yes.
Total / Blanket Ban?  please explain.

 

 

 

No FOID Card, no purchase of a firearm or ammo, so I would say it is a total ban.

 

You may be 100% eligible to obtain a FOID card, but until the State gives it's approval, you are banned from purchasing any firearm or ammo. An eligible individual should not be banned from purchasing items they are legally allowed to have just because they don't have a permission slip from the government. 

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On 11/27/2023 at 8:54 AM, bmyers said:

 

No FOID Card, no purchase of a firearm or ammo, so I would say it is a total ban.

 

You may be 100% eligible to obtain a FOID card, but until the State gives it's approval, you are banned from purchasing any firearm or ammo. An eligible individual should not be banned from purchasing items they are legally allowed to have just because they don't have a permission slip from the government. 

Isn't an out of state resident allowed to purchase ammo while in our state?  If yes, a non resident is given more rights than those of us who pay the taxes here.

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On 11/27/2023 at 8:54 AM, bmyers said:

 

No FOID Card, no purchase of a firearm or ammo, so I would say it is a total ban.

 

You may be 100% eligible to obtain a FOID card, but until the State gives its approval, you are banned from purchasing any firearm or ammo. An eligible individual should not be banned from purchasing items they are legally allowed to have just because they don't have a permission slip from the government. 

You left off, 

NO possession in or out of the HOME of ammo OR any Firearm without a FOID.
You can’t even get a nail gun with small .22 loads without one. 

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On 11/27/2023 at 4:37 PM, fxdpntc said:

Maryland is saying they’ll keep enforcing the law until the court issues a mandate.

Why do they want to bring moo-chel, AKA Big Mike, into this?
Anyhow, since when do courts issue “mandates”, can the people who brought the case mail them for a color of law rights violation?
 

Edited by mab22
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On 11/27/2023 at 8:54 AM, bmyers said:

No FOID Card, no purchase of a firearm or ammo, so I would say it is a total ban.

 

You may be 100% eligible to obtain a FOID card, but until the State gives it's approval, you are banned from purchasing any firearm or ammo.  An eligible individual should not be banned from purchasing items they are legally allowed to have just because they don't have a permission slip from the government. 

 

Most gun shops won't even let you HANDLE guns or ammo until they see your FOID or driver's license to prove you're from out of state.

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On 11/27/2023 at 4:37 PM, fxdpntc said:

Maryland is saying they’ll keep enforcing the law until the court issues a mandate.

 

Back in Feb I said Illinois would do the same thing. Illinois is essentially thumbing its nose at the TROs by saying banned guns purchased during those windows will be illegal on Jan 1st. 

 

The next step will be IL openly saying F THE COURT.   A dem senator said something to the effect that there would be states that refuse to obey the court orders.  

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On 12/2/2023 at 12:00 AM, Dumak_from_arfcom said:

 

Back in Feb I said Illinois would do the same thing. Illinois is essentially thumbing its nose at the TROs by saying banned guns purchased during those windows will be illegal on Jan 1st. 

 

The next step will be IL openly saying F THE COURT.   A dem senator said something to the effect that there would be states that refuse to obey the court orders.  

And that is how civil wars get started. 

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On 12/2/2023 at 12:00 AM, Dumak_from_arfcom said:

Back in Feb I said Illinois would do the same thing. Illinois is essentially thumbing its nose at the TROs by saying banned guns purchased during those windows will be illegal on Jan 1st. 

 

The next step will be IL openly saying F THE COURT.   A dem senator said something to the effect that there would be states that refuse to obey the court orders.  

 

In all likelihood, that "senator" was very likely our own "Tricky Dicky" Durbin. 😡

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