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PICA Hearing 3 of 3: 11/6/2023


mauserme

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On 11/29/2023 at 6:08 PM, Upholder said:

They won't get hacked.. they promise:

 

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That's not much of a standard.  The FBI itself was recently hacked:

 

Exclusive: FBI says it has ‘contained’ cyber incident on bureau’s computer network

Published 7:00 AM EST, Fri February 17, 2023
 
...

“The FBI is aware of the incident and is working to gain additional information,” the bureau said in a statement to CNN. “This is an isolated incident that has been contained. As this is an ongoing investigation the FBI does not have further comment to provide at this time.”

 

FBI officials have worked to isolate the malicious cyber activity, which two of the sources said involved the FBI New York Field Office – one of the bureau’s biggest and highest profile offices. The origin of the hacking incident is still being investigated, according to one source.

 

The FBI, like any big government agency or corporation, has to deal with an array of online threats.

...

 

 

 

 

 

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On 11/29/2023 at 4:07 PM, Upholder said:

The standard for determining if a magazine is a "large capacity ammunition feeding device" is if it will hold more than 10 rounds of any type of ammunition

 

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How many rounds of 22LR can a 10 round 5.56 AR mag hold?  They said ANY type of ammunition....

Edited by Illinois Sucks
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On 11/30/2023 at 5:29 AM, Illinois Sucks said:

How many rounds of 22LR can a 10 round 5.56 AR mag hold?  They said ANY type of ammunition....

 

LOL F Them.

 

They don't get to make that decision on a whim. They just keep building more of a case against them in court.

 

So now everyone carrying/order a Glock 22 magazine or 40 Equivalent to a 9mm for example. Illegal, those 15 round 40 S&W mags will hold 17 rounds of 9mm.

 

All Glock 19 magazines at 15 rounds are illegal because you can probably cram 17x 30 super carry.

 

All Shotguns that were limited to 5 rounds, are now illegal because of minishells. Actually I can probably stuff 30 9mm in a Shotgun's magazine tube if I take the spring out. Extra illegaler now.

 

 

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On 12/2/2023 at 6:44 AM, RECarry said:

Should the state push "an AR mag can hold too many 22LR's" argument, a magazine's intended use is as a feeding device that functions without jamming.

A firearm that jams because of an overfilled magazine is no longer an "Assault weapon".

I think that the state's inner stupid knows no bounds, as evidenced already by several of these FAQ's and the hearings.
 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 12/5/2023 at 7:47 PM, Upholder said:

Bishop on Air discusses the latest rules from ISP in front of JCAR that gave rise to the FAQ changes: https://ilga.gov/commission/jcar/SecondNotices/201230-2313846r02.pdf

 

 

I still say this is all the lawmakers responsibility, not unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats, in the executive branch. 
 

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On 12/2/2023 at 6:44 AM, RECarry said:

Should the state push "an AR mag can hold too many 22LR's" argument, a magazine's intended use is as a feeding device that functions without jamming.

A firearm that jams because of an overfilled magazine is no longer an "Assault weapon".

 I wonder if that argument could be used for some of the 50-100 round drum magazines that jam quite often, making them exempt 🤣

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ok so a shotgun magazine tube isnt a detachable magazine so the round count for a tube is maximum identified chambered size but an extension tube may be an assault weapon attachment, got it

 

21. “Capacity” means the total number of rounds that can be used of the maximum identified chambered sized round.

If the shotgun’s fixed magazine tube will accept more than 5-rounds of the maximum identified chambered size round, it is regulated by PICA and subject to the endorsement affidavit provisions. Extension tubes are neither fixed or detachable magazines and are therefore not regulated by PICA. If the shotgun’s fixed magazine tube will not accept more than 5 rounds of the maximum identified chambered size round, it is not regulated by PICA unless it has one of the features otherwise regulated – for example a pistol grip or thumbhole stock.

Section 1.10 of PICA does not regulate shotguns but rather regulates large capacity ammunition feeding devices. With respect to magazines, belts, drums, feed strips and other similar devices for shotguns, if it accepts more than 10 rounds of any type of ammunition it is regulated by PICA; however, the endorsement affidavit provisions do not apply to large capacity ammunition feeding devices.

There is a specific exemption for tubular devices designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.

 

24. The ISP does not consider a magazine tube extension to be a fixed or detachable magazine. However, it is an assault weapon attachment subject to the endorsement affidavit process. The requirement to file an endorsement affidavit for assault weapon attachments is not dependent upon the person also owning an assault weapon

 

I mean this act seems similar to laws passed in other states so maybe the State Police should ask the Third parties that wrote this mess to explain it

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On 12/8/2023 at 9:08 AM, davel501 said:

 

It's all contradictions. Non-working firearms don't need to be registered so what's a stripped lower? 

 

I would argue that most non-working firearms do need to be registered and many of the parts on them may need to be registered, note the exemption says "is an unserviceable firearm or has been made permanently inoperable" IMO that implies non-gun replica builds that use real gun parts are exempt as are complete basket case guns that can't be repaired...   I would also argue if that gun that has been made permanently inoperable has 'assessories' that have not been made inoperable they would need to be registered, just like the booster on a lightsaber...

 

A stripped lower is an assault weapon part according to the FAQ on the ISP site, if it can be used to build a weapon, if you were to weld a block into in preventing a fire control assembly from being installed then it would be permanently inoperable...

 

In the end IMO the law is written to include everything and prevent sale of everything and scare people into not keeping or obtaining anything that might be part of a scary weapon...  That said like all anti-gun legislation it's horribly written as there is no such thing as an assault weapon thus they have to make stuff up...

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On 12/9/2023 at 9:59 PM, Flynn said:

 

I would argue that most non-working firearms do need to be registered and many of the parts on them may need to be registered, note the exemption says "is an unserviceable firearm or has been made permanently inoperable" IMO that implies non-gun replica builds that use real gun parts are exempt as are complete basket case guns that can't be repaired...   I would also argue if that gun that has been made permanently inoperable has 'assessories' that have not been made inoperable they would need to be registered, just like the booster on a lightsaber...

 

A stripped lower is an assault weapon part according to the FAQ on the ISP site, if it can be used to build a weapon, if you were to weld a block into in preventing a fire control assembly from being installed then it would be permanently inoperable...

 

In the end IMO the law is written to include everything and prevent sale of everything and scare people into not keeping or obtaining anything that might be part of a scary weapon...  That said like all anti-gun legislation it's horribly written as there is no such thing as an assault weapon thus they have to make stuff up...

 

That's the thing though, a stripped lower is non serviceable as long as you don't have the parts to make it serviceable. You can't buy the parts in state and if you take it out of state to complete it you can't bring it back. You could probably store your uppers out of state and be compliant. That said, you probably won't beat the ride but you may beat the case. 

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On 12/9/2023 at 10:39 PM, davel501 said:

That's the thing though, a stripped lower is non serviceable as long as you don't have the parts to make it serviceable.

 

Under Federal law it's a firearm, so as I said in another thread I believe 'registering' it as an assault weapon accessory as the ISP suggests is actually something I would hesitate to do vs registering it as a firearm...

 

Quote

That said, you probably won't beat the ride but you may beat the case. 

 

I guess people will have to decide if having something that they proclaim is unservable is worth that ride and expense to them...

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