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Liberty Safe providing access codes to LE?

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Hap Member

Hap

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According to a story in RedState this morning (https://redstate.com/jenvanlaar/2023/09/06/liberty-safe-caved-gave-fbi-access-code-january-6-n2163468) Liberty Safe provided an access code to the FBI for a safe belonging to a recently-arrested J6 protestor. It is not clear whether the "access code" was specific to that particular safe; it may also have been a generally-applicable backdoor to a wider class of Liberty safes. (If the latter, then of course anyone with a Liberty safe, or for that matter any safe with a non-mechanical lock should consider it vulnerable.)

 

The article includes some additional information about the arrest and links to Liberty's statement on the matter. The question now is to what extent safe manufacturers have placed undisclosed backdoors in their products and by whom and under what circumstances these backdoors may be used.

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Upholder Member

Upholder

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...and they're not the only one:  https://twitter.com/FriedmanBrock/status/1699433380427821280

 

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After hearing what happened with liberty safe, I called sentry safe and asked them. They said each safe has a factory electronic code that can not be deleted even when you set your own code. It's the one on the sticker on the manual.

 

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solareclipse2 Member

solareclipse2

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Regardless of the existence of a "master" code or whatever they used to give LE access to the safe, where I think they messed up is providing it with LE merely showing them a search warrant for the owner of the safe. That's of no concern to Liberty Safe, there wa no legal means to compel them to do anything. For Liberty to actually have to give up any access they have to anyone's safe they would need to be subpoenaed and a judge would have to legally compelled to give up that code. Liberty just threw their hands up and went "eh, whatever". They you have just went "nah, that's between you and the guy. You can pay to have the lock drilled". 

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Illinois Sucks Member

Illinois Sucks

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On 9/6/2023 at 12:39 PM, solareclipse2 said:

Regardless of the existence of a "master" code or whatever they used to give LE access to the safe, where I think they messed up is providing it with LE merely showing them a search warrant for the owner of the safe. That's of no concern to Liberty Safe, there wa no legal means to compel them to do anything. For Liberty to actually have to give up any access they have to anyone's safe they would need to be subpoenaed and a judge would have to legally compelled to give up that code. Liberty just threw their hands up and went "eh, whatever". They you have just went "nah, that's between you and the guy. You can pay to have the lock drilled". 

This!

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mab22 Member

mab22

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On 9/6/2023 at 8:59 PM, DoYouFeelLucky said:

The dealer I got my Liberty Safe from swaps out the electronic lock as they do not like the ones that Liberty has.  I like the heavier duty keypad on the replacement lock.

The keypad is the problem, it probably has a factory code to open the safe just like the Liberty ones.

You can’t trust the electronics these days.

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davel501 Member

davel501

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On 9/6/2023 at 11:08 PM, BobPistol said:

This is one reason I didn't want an electronic safe.   Anything electronic won't survive an emp and can be hacked.   Dead battery = worthless safe.

 

Whoever knows how to convert safes from digital to analog will be making some cha-ching in this profitable niche.

 

They are emp shielded and the battery is changeable from the outside. They warn you long before they quit working. 

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Flynn Member

Flynn

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Posted
On 9/6/2023 at 11:08 PM, BobPistol said:

Whoever knows how to convert safes from digital to analog will be making some cha-ching in this profitable niche.

 

Anyone who has full access can crack a consumer-grade analog safe in short, especially if they have no desire to not cause damage...  Most can be cracked within minutes by simply drilling a small hole that allows an endoscope camera to get in there and see the gates...  Beyond that if you hit up lock picking sites, you can find step by step instructions on how to crack many consumer analog safes or at least narrow down the combination to a manageable size that can be brute forced in short...  Lots of exploits for digital ones as well especially if you have full access and can drill a hole to gain access to the actuator and manually trip it...

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davel501 Member

davel501

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On 9/7/2023 at 12:35 AM, Flynn said:

 

Anyone who has full access can crack a consumer-grade analog safe in short, especially if they have no desire to not cause damage...  Most can be cracked within minutes by simply drilling a small hole that allows an endoscope camera to get in there and see the gates...  Beyond that if you hit up lock picking sites, you can find step by step instructions on how to crack many consumer analog safes or at least narrow down the combination to a manageable size that can be brute forced in short...  Lots of exploits for digital ones as well especially if you have full access and can drill a hole to gain access to the actuator and manually trip it...

 

If you've got a warrant you can just use an angle grinder to make a new door in the side pretty quickly too. 

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Flynn Member

Flynn

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Posted (edited)
On 9/7/2023 at 1:30 AM, davel501 said:

 

If you've got a warrant you can just use an angle grinder to make a new door in the side pretty quickly too. 

 

Yep, on most consumer safes they are fortified for frontal attacks to the door, attack from the side and back and they are generally a lot easier to get into...  I watched a video of a gun trying to crack open an ATM, he struggled trying to get into it from the front, then out of curiosity he rolled it over and attacked the back, and found out that he only had to cut a single layer of thin sheet metal and was able to pull out the cash drawers from the back with ease 🤣

 

And as you said if they have a warrant and you refuse to open it, they can break into it...

Edited by Flynn
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steveTA84 Member

steveTA84

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Posted (edited)

An east coast leftist Capitol group acquired them on 2021

https://www.mcpfunds.com/news/monomoy-capital-partners-agrees-to-acquire-liberty-safe-0/

 

 

A7E70A3B-4DC9-480A-BCAD-C54D6559BF14.thumb.jpeg.d8844ba4b2f6aa983d8a85de210b6c68.jpeg
 

They bankroll democrats and only democrats , including Mark Kelly, who founded Giffords. Max donation amount possible to candidates btw

 

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/monomoy-capital-partners/recipients?id=D000035965

 

EF43B705-EA99-448C-83EB-80218E0B87F1.thumb.jpeg.56387c8cdbe100fb17056ddee132d6be.jpeg

 

their current big guy

 

1B962BAE-73A5-4C80-98F2-60AAC2E98A92.thumb.jpeg.d20f4253ef42fa9322e540806fea662b.jpegC570FCAF-774E-4475-9797-34DAE3161F6C.thumb.jpeg.21543f70803123a9c43d217840efebf8.jpeg

 

B7B18AFB-7F98-459C-B58B-88C05FCD0A39.thumb.jpeg.9be335bfa9b4fe19dd017416f538bd6c.jpeg

 

 

Dont but their safes. You’re making anti-gunners rich

Edited by steveTA84
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Flynn Member

Flynn

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Full damage control is now in progress!

 

You can now apparently request they delete your combo from their database...  At http://www.libertysafe.com/pages/combination-removal

 

Quote

The company said in its statement that it "has long adhered to industry standards by maintaining a secure database of factory-set combinations" as a courtesy to customers who might need them for various reasons, but that effective immediately, existing customers may visit the website and "fill out the form to have records of their access codes expunged."

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/gun-safe-company-backlash-providing-fbi-code-customers-safe

 

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mab22 Member

mab22

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Posted
On 9/7/2023 at 4:16 PM, Flynn said:

Full damage control is now in progress!

 

You can now apparently request they delete your combo from their database...  At http://www.libertysafe.com/pages/combination-removal

 

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/gun-safe-company-backlash-providing-fbi-code-customers-safe

 

Assuming the feds didn’t get a copy first.

It’s a sad day when you feel like you just can’t trust anyone, and there has been a commingling of government and the private sector in our lives.

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Lou Member

Lou

Posted
Posted
On 9/6/2023 at 11:08 PM, BobPistol said:

This is one reason I didn't want an electronic safe.   Anything electronic won't survive an emp and can be hacked.   Dead battery = worthless safe.

 

Whoever knows how to convert safes from digital to analog will be making some cha-ching in this profitable niche.

The safe I have has a digital lock but it also came with a key to open it up in case of failure.  It was a feature I was looking for. 
 

If desired I can remove the digital mechanism with batteries and hide it someplace else or just destroy it. 
With the  lock removed the keyhole is exposed.  
That said, I have a suspicion the if pressed hard enough and given the safe serial number the manufacturer could provide LE a duplicate key but then the serial number is inside the safe.  
 

Nothing is foolproof but ya gotta make things as foolproof as possible. 

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Bubbacs Member

Bubbacs

Posted
Posted
On 9/7/2023 at 4:16 PM, Flynn said:

Full damage control is now in progress!

 

You can now apparently request they delete your combo from their database...  At http://www.libertysafe.com/pages/combination-removal

 

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/gun-safe-company-backlash-providing-fbi-code-customers-safe

 

Great now they are taking your information AND the serial numbers along with the fact YOU have a safe and therefore own weapons and when clicking submit one copy goes into their data base and the second copy goes straight to the FBI data base!  Too late mf's.

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DoYouFeelLucky Member

DoYouFeelLucky

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The problem is, talking to friends in LE, the Liberty codes are not unique to each safe, have been circulated among LE organizations, and it's possible the Liberty Database has been hacked in the past.  My safe dealer in KC must of had a clue, because they use a non-Liberty supplied electronic keypad, and told me not to register my safe with Liberty, they would handle any warranty claims.

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