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HB 4349 and HB 4259 to come up in committee next Thurs.


45superman

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HB 4259 ("Ammunition Accountability") and HB 4349 ("Ammunition Encoding") are on the House Executive Committee agenda for next Thursday, Feb. 14th at 11:00 AM.

 

Are such meetings open to the public, and can any of our Springfield area members get off work to be there? Might as well start fighting early.

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I have a feeling that will be covered by a bunch of folks, other than grass-roots!

 

That said, some of us li'l folks need to be there too! I would, but I wouldn't know what I was doin', or suppposed to be doin'!

 

"Never too old to learn" doesn't apply!

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Man - I cannot believe the ISP has not ranted on this crap!

Like they don't have enough to do right now. The GA had better arm the citizenry, because the ISP is gonna be too busy tracking numbers to fool arond with any law enforcement tasks. It's amazing to me how the scheming minds of liberals work!

 

Free Press of Illinois - better get ready for the Newspaper Ink Encoding Act... every letter you print will have to be micro-stamped.

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I found this on thehighroad.org. It echoes the belief that more and more gun control legislation is needed to prevent a recurrence of gun violence such as today's killings on the college campus in Louisiana.

 

"ranger335v

Senior Member

 

 

Join Date: 12-03-06

Posts: 368

 

Events such as this are solid evidence the liberals are right! Since such actions are already forbidden by a multitude of laws and school regulations, we must enact more laws and regulations to make it illegal to ignore the previous laws and regulations. Given enough laws and regulations, surely people would eventually change their behavior. Or not.

 

Maybe the ostritch's defensive position really doesn't work?"

 

I am sure the proposed ammunition bills would have prevented the killings on the college campus and would have prevented the serial killings at Lane Bryant in Tinley Park. Can I get any agreement?

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Man - I cannot believe the ISP has not ranted on this crap!

Like they don't have enough to do right now. The GA had better arm the citizenry, because the ISP is gonna be too busy tracking numbers to fool arond with any law enforcement tasks. It's amazing to me how the scheming minds of liberals work!

 

Free Press of Illinois - better get ready for the Newspaper Ink Encoding Act... every letter you print will have to be micro-stamped.

 

 

GWBH,

Director Larry Trent and his minions will do exactly as they're told by Blago and the real leaders of this state. I would guess that many troopers are frustrated, perhaps there are many others that are not!!

 

AB

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As I've written before, I cannot imagine any person applying for the ISP with this type of duty in mind! I would think it would be totally humiliating! "This is all you're good for!"

 

Not belittling data entry, but I would think that's not why a person applies to the ISP! One can do that anywhere...including in the safety of the home!

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burningspear:

 

Events such as this are solid evidence the liberals are right! Since such actions are already forbidden by a multitude of laws and school regulations, we must enact more laws and regulations to make it illegal to ignore the previous laws and regulations. Given enough laws and regulations, surely people would eventually change their behavior. Or not.

 

I love this... We must enact more laws and reguations to make it illegal to ignore the previous laws and regulations- huh??

 

Given enough laws and regulations, surely people would eventually change their behavior. if it's behavior then why don't we... awwwww never mind!!!

Then he ends with - OR NOT!!! Ya' Think???

But, as we all know - Events such as this are solid evidence the liberals are right! Did this guy forget to take his medicine this morning?

 

This whole thing reminds me of Yogi Bera in that AFLAC commercial!!

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burningspear:

 

Events such as this are solid evidence the liberals are right! Since such actions are already forbidden by a multitude of laws and school regulations, we must enact more laws and regulations to make it illegal to ignore the previous laws and regulations. Given enough laws and regulations, surely people would eventually change their behavior. Or not.

 

I love this... We must enact more laws and reguations to make it illegal to ignore the previous laws and regulations- huh??

 

Given enough laws and regulations, surely people would eventually change their behavior. if it's behavior then why don't we... awwwww never mind!!!

Then he ends with - OR NOT!!! Ya' Think???

But, as we all know - Events such as this are solid evidence the liberals are right! Did this guy forget to take his medicine this morning?

 

This whole thing reminds me of Yogi Bera in that AFLAC commercial!!

 

I think you guys are misreading him. He's undoubtedly being sarcastic.

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Committee meetings are open to the public.

 

Members of the public can offer their own testimony, providing the chair lets them.

 

The experience I saw with sitting in on the Executive Committee(I think this was the one) last year when the Magazine ban was sent there was this.

 

The sponsor will speak at length, a few 'victims' will speak at length.

 

The committee chairman will then give a token gesture of 'listening' to our side by letting the NRA lobbyist say his piece. The chair will attempt to leave comment against the bill to the NRA lobbyist only(can't let the record state that a 'normal citizen' opposes the bill, just 'the gun lobby').

 

In this case two State Reps spoke against the bill as well, because they were members, and they had manufacturers in their district.

 

Valinda sorta had to interrupt the Chairman before he called for a vote to get her chance to speak and he really only gave her about 2 minutes.

 

 

 

If you don't want to speak you can sign a witness slip.

You fill in your name, address, and your stance on the bill plus any brief comments you might have.

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I think you guys are misreading him. He's undoubtedly being sarcastic.

 

Yep!

 

What - you're kidding??

Well hecky-dern... I thought he was serious and I was really having a good time!!

Some conservative in drag, I suppose. Sounded just like liberal thinking to me.

Dang FF - why don't you just rain on my parade!! :frantics:

 

 

HB 4259 ("Ammunition Accountability") and HB 4349 ("Ammunition Encoding")

Can someone send me the email addresses of the two Representatives that sponsored these bills? I wann'a blow this stuff out'a the water!

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Any suggestions before I hand deliver this one to my rep's office tonight? If I don't get a response by Tuesday, I'll just have to give a follow up call as well.

 

-------------------------

 

Representative Biggins,

I wrote you last week asking for your views about a number of proposed bills in the Illinois house, but I have not yet received a response from you. Two of the proposed bills are on the agenda for the Executive Committee Meeting on February 14th, 2008, so I cannot wait any longer for your response before stating my view. Because you are the representative for my district, and a member of the Executive Committee, let me state for the record my opposition to both HB 4259 ("Ammunition Accountability") and HB 4349 ("Ammunition Encoding"). These two pieces of legislation have no chance of preventing gun crimes, and very little chance of helping police solve gun crimes after the fact. They would push the price of firearm ammunition out of reach for many people who might otherwise enjoy hunting or target shooting for recreation and competition. They would add tremendous cost to Police Departments throughout the state of Illinois. They would hurt local businesses that sell firearms and ammunition or provide range facilities, and thereby would reduce the amount of sales tax those businesses generate for the state. Finally, recreational or competition target shooters who manufacture their own ammunition would probably be unable to continue because of the cost involved for the tools that would be required to “encode” the shells.

 

I think we both know that the only purpose of both of these bills is to place further burdens on Illinois residents who own and use firearms legally. Because of the massive increase these bills would cause to the already high price of firearm ammunition, it would limit the number of people who could afford to participate in shooting sports. Ammunition manufacturers would have to retool their manufacturing facilities, adding to the already high cost of ammunition, or they would just choose not to sell in Illinois at all. The criminals that use firearms illegally, and already ignore all the other firearms laws in Illinois, would just ignore these laws as well, and probably bring ammunition in from out of state. I, for one, would probably stop purchasing ammunition and shooting at Midwest Sporting Goods in Lyons every other week, and would instead take my business to one of the ranges in northern Indiana. Perhaps that is what the sponsers of these bills intend, to force businesses in Illinois that deal in firearms and shooting supplies out of Illinois. Please respond with your opinion of HB 4259 and HB 4349 as soon as you can.

 

Thank you,

w00dc4ip

North Riverside, IL

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Let's show these people we mean business, start those calls,faxes,e-mails and letters! Voice your opposition to these bills every day of the week! Call these people up every day and tell them that YOU personally oppose any attempt to infringe on your second amendment rights. You've seen what we can do when we band together (like uniting against Larry the Puppet and the Chicago Street Beaver!) Let's give them an earful!
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Let's show these people we mean business, start those calls,faxes,e-mails and ...

 

 

I'll be glad to do that! Will someone post the darned email addresses of the Reps who sponsered these bill?

(Don't make me ask again - it could get ugly...)

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Attached is an Excel file with contact info for the committee members. For newcomers here at Illinois Carry, the color indicates how gun-friendly the legislator's voting record has been of late. Green is gun friendly, yellow is mostly gun friendly, orange is not so good, and pink is for the freedom haters.

House_Exec.xls

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I'll be glad to do that! Will someone post the darned email addresses of the Reps who sponsered these bill?

(Don't make me ask again - it could get ugly...)

William Davis (sponsor of HB 4259) williamd@legis.state.il.us

 

Naomi Jakobsson (sponsor of HB 4349) naomi@naomijakobsson.com

Harry Osterman (cosponsor of HB 4349) hj017@aol.com

 

Those are the email addresses the NRA lists for them. Email, however, is not the most effective method of lobbying the lawmakers.

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Let's show these people we mean business, start those calls,faxes,e-mails and ...

 

 

I'll be glad to do that! Will someone post the darned email addresses of the Reps who sponsered these bill?

(Don't make me ask again - it could get ugly...)

 

A little demanding aren't we??? This site http://www.ilga.gov/default.asp will give you names, mailing addresses and fax and phone numbers. A google search of the rep's name will ususally get you the e-mail info. There are other sites to use as well, I'm sure someone would be glad to post the site info for you. Then you can look them up whenever you need them!!!!

 

Thanks for communicating with them.

 

AB

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Let's show these people we mean business, start those calls,faxes,e-mails and ...

 

 

I'll be glad to do that! Will someone post the darned email addresses of the Reps who sponsered these bill?

(Don't make me ask again - it could get ugly...)

 

A little demanding aren't we??? This site http://www.ilga.gov/default.asp will give you names, mailing addresses and fax and phone numbers. A google search of the rep's name will ususally get you the e-mail info. There are other sites to use as well, I'm sure someone would be glad to post the site info for you. Then you can look them up whenever you need them!!!!

 

Thanks for communicating with them.

 

AB

 

Thanks AB...

Hey - the squeaky wheel gets the grease - it worked, didn't it?? Besides, I'm on a roll and being old, I could nod off at any time!! :frantics:

I'm a little new at all this 'puter stuff and I do appreciate everyone's help.

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Oh they'll be getting some letters by mail as well - i can be relentless.

Thanks for the info - and for saving a bunch of "legs" from the rath of an old "jumper"!!! :frantics:

 

All The Way - my man...

Ft Benning - 42nd Co - 1969

 

You, Ishmo, and I--if everyone else isn't careful, we airborne folks are going to take over :thumbsup:.

 

Ft. Bragg - A Battery, 319th AFAR - 1993

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Ahhhhh - an 82nd Red Leg... I was with the 18th Corps for a while. The 82nd is one fine unit - they don't come any better than that bunch of troopers!!

 

Guys / Gals,

Please proof read and let me know what to change...

 

Dear Representative William Davis

Dear Representative Naomi Jakobsson

Dear Representative Harry Osterman

 

I'd appreciate an opportunity to share my personal thoughts with you with respect to proposed legislation that you've introduced, namely HB 4259 (Ammunition Accountability) and HB 4349 (Ammunition Encoding) for consideration by the General assembly to eventually pass into law. I have no idea from where you've recieved the data to form an analysis for introduction of this legislation, but it is extremely flawed and will render no reduction in crime associated with firearms. Let me explain.

I don't consider myself a firearms "expert" , but offer these credentials to support my position. I was formally trained in the U.S. Army as an Infantryman and qualified with the M-16 and M-14 rifles as well as the M-60 light machine gun. I attended Airborne School and Pathfinder School at Ft Benning, GA. Upon assignment to the 101st Airborne Div (Airmobile) in S. Vietnam, I attended the Ranger School (Recondo) at Nha Trang and was trained on the operation, disasembly and assembly of 17 different types of Chinese and Russian handguns, semi-auto and automatic weapons as well as a variety of explosive weaponry. I grew up in a family where firearms were common place and still enjoy the outdoor sport of hunting, as well as competitive target shooting; and have over 50 years of civilian and military combat experience with firearms.

First of all "micro-stamping", as it's called, a serial number on every round of ammunition is a null point. No matter what kind of projectile is fired from a weapon the barrel rifling etches grooves in the projectile so it flies true to target. The grooving is etched deep enough to destroy any serial number on the projectile. A projectile suffers deformity and severe scuffing as it passes through a target of any mass, again eliminating any serial number. While FMJ projectiles retain their original design well, the deformation is much, much worse if the projectile strikes a solid object such as a desk or file cabinet. Depending on the style of projectile after striking a solid object, many times the projectile simply disentegrates into pieces; ultimately rendering a serial number illegible, even if the number is encoded on the rear.

A serial number encoded an a cartridge casing can easily be defeated by a criminal scattering casings taken from any lawful operating firearms range, or using a revolver in place of a semi-automatic pistol. When cartridges are fired from a revolver, the brass casing remains in the cylinder and they could be disposed of any number of ways, at any time after commission of a crime. To spend taxpayer dollars on maintaining a huge data base, and to burden merchants operating within the law by such measures will do nothing to stop criminals from committing crimes. Encoding firearm rounds is an after the fact thought. The crime has already been committed. This legislation will do nothing to actually prevent crime, which is what I think we all want in the first place.

A much better alternative would be to support HB 4544. This bill really needs to come out of committee and be passed into law. If the Governor vetos the legislation, the General Assembly should act responsibly and over ride that veto. Illinois citizens have been suffering at the hands of criminals for much too long. They need, and deserve your help in defending themselves whether at home or in public. Not only is it the right thing to do, it should also be the lawful thing to do. Legislation such as HB 4259 and HB 4349 only burden, once again, the law-abiding citizen. If an Illinois resident can go to Indiana or another state and buy ammunition without encoding, what makes anyone think a criminal would use ammunition acquired here in Illinois so they could be tracked, even if the encoding process was workable? I'm asking you to help Illinois residents defend themselves, their families and their property. Criminals are killing us and it's disgraceful that we have no lawful means by which we can protect ourselves as do 48 other states. The past is past. It's time to realize that 40 years of well meaning gun control laws have not worked and HB 4259 and HB 4349 are no different. Will you help us?

 

I welcome and look forward to your response,

 

Best regards,

**** ********

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Oh they'll be getting some letters by mail as well - i can be relentless.

Thanks for the info - and for saving a bunch of "legs" from the rath of an old "jumper"!!! :rolleyes:

 

All The Way - my man...

Ft Benning - 42nd Co - 1969

 

You, Ishmo, and I--if everyone else isn't careful, we airborne folks are going to take over :thumbsup:.

 

Ft. Bragg - A Battery, 319th AFAR - 1993

Now that's a scary thought 45. I just hope some lib doesn't report that there's an evil Airborne Axis of gun owners here planning to take over :thumbsup: Sometimes you you really crack me up :)

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You can certaainly add my sig to that letter if you'd like!

 

 

Ahhhhh - an 82nd Red Leg... I was with the 18th Corps for a while. The 82nd is one fine unit - they don't come any better than that bunch of troopers!!

 

Guys / Gals,

Please proof read and let me know what to change...

 

Dear Representative William Davis

Dear Representative Naomi Jakobsson

Dear Representative Harry Osterman

 

I'd appreciate an opportunity to share my personal thoughts with you with respect to proposed legislation that you've introduced, namely HB 4259 (Ammunition Accountability) and HB 4349 (Ammunition Encoding) for consideration by the General assembly to eventually pass into law. I have no idea from where you've recieved the data to form an analysis for introduction of this legislation, but it is extremely flawed and will render no reduction in crime associated with firearms. Let me explain.

I don't consider myself a firearms "expert" , but offer these credentials to support my position. I was formally trained in the U.S. Army as an Infantryman and qualified with the M-16 and M-14 rifles as well as the M-60 light machine gun. I attended Airborne School and Pathfinder School at Ft Benning, GA. Upon assignment to the 101st Airborne Div (Airmobile) in S. Vietnam, I attended the Ranger School (Recondo) at Nha Trang and was trained on the operation, disasembly and assembly of 17 different types of Chinese and Russian handguns, semi-auto and automatic weapons as well as a variety of explosive weaponry. I grew up in a family where firearms were common place and still the enjoy outdoor sport of hunting, as well as competitive target shooting; and have over 50 years of civilian and military combat experience with firearms.

First of all "micro-stamping", as it's called, a serial number on every round of ammunition is a null point. No matter what kind of projectile is fired from a weapon the barrel rifling etches grooves in the projectile so it flies true to target. The grooving is etched deep enough to destroy any serial number on the projectile. A projectile suffers deformity and severe scuffing as it passes through a target of any mass, again eliminating any serial number. While FMJ projectiles retain their original design well, the deformation is much, much worse if the projectile strikes a solid object such as a desk or file cabinet. Depending on the style of projectile after striking a solid object, many times the projectile simply disentegrates into pieces; ultimately rendering a serial number illegible, even if the number is encoded on the rear.

A serial number encoded an a cartridge casing can easily be defeated by a criminal scattering casings taken from any lawful operating firearms range, or using a revolver in place of a semi-automatic pistol. When cartridges are fired from a revolver, the brass casing remains in the cylinder and they could be disposed of any number of ways, at any time after commission of a crime. To spend taxpayer dollars on maintaining a huge data base, and to burden merchants operating within the law by such measures will do nothing to stop criminals from committing crimes. Encoding firearm rounds is an after the fact thought. The crime has already been committed. This legislation will do nothing to actually prevent crime, which is what I think we all want in the first place.

A much better alternative would be to support HB 4544. This bill really needs to come out of committee and be passed into law. If the Governor vetos the legislation, the General Assembly should act responsibly and over ride that veto. Illinois citizens have been suffering at the hands of criminals for much too long. They need, and deserve your help in defending themselves whether at home or in public. Not only is it the right thing to do, it should also be the lawful thing to do. Legislation such as HB 4259 and HB 4349 only burden, once again, the law-abiding citizen. If an Illinois resident can go to Indiana or another state and buy ammunition without encoding, what makes anyone think a criminal would use ammunition acquired here in Illinois so they could be tracked, even if the encoding process was workable? I'm asking you to help Illinois residents defend themselves, their families and their property. Criminals are killing us and it's disgraceful that we have no lawful means by which we can protect ourselves as do 48 other states. The past is past. It's time to realize that 40 years of well meaning gun control laws have not worked and HB 4259 and HB 4349 are no different. Will you help us?

 

I welcome and look forward to your response,

 

Best regards,

**** ********

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Committee meetings are open to the public.

 

Members of the public can offer their own testimony, providing the chair lets them.

 

The experience I saw with sitting in on the Executive Committee(I think this was the one) last year when the Magazine ban was sent there was this.

 

The sponsor will speak at length, a few 'victims' will speak at length.

 

The committee chairman will then give a token gesture of 'listening' to our side by letting the NRA lobbyist say his piece. The chair will attempt to leave comment against the bill to the NRA lobbyist only(can't let the record state that a 'normal citizen' opposes the bill, just 'the gun lobby').

 

In this case two State Reps spoke against the bill as well, because they were members, and they had manufacturers in their district.

 

Valinda sorta had to interrupt the Chairman before he called for a vote to get her chance to speak and he really only gave her about 2 minutes.

 

 

 

If you don't want to speak you can sign a witness slip.

You fill in your name, address, and your stance on the bill plus any brief comments you might have.

 

Dorvinion has covered most of the bases and I'll add a few extra help tips:

 

1. The day before go to the website and find out where the hearing will be held, also jot down a list of the committee members and the name of the Committee Clerk, then call to find out directions to the Hearing Room so you will know exactly where it is.

 

2. The day of the hearing arrive at the hearing room at least 30 minutes before it starts, dress business or casual business (nice shirt and slacks)

 

3. Ask anyone in the room to direct you to the Committee Clerk who takes care of all the paper work for the committee. They are usually up at the front of the room. Ask the Clerk for a witness slip - write in the number of the bill and title - fill in the rest of the info - pretty self-explanatory.

 

4. I think you can sign it three different ways - ONE you want to give oral testimony, TWO you are present in support or opposition, THREE you can sign in support or opposition and then leave. If you have a highlighter I would suggest you highlight your choice.

 

5. If you are prepared to give oral testimony it is best to have a statement written out and a copy made for each legislator - in case you get cut off like I did - give those copies to the Clerk with your witness slip and tell him/her they are for each legislator.

 

6. When you turn in your witness slip and statements to the Clerk, TELL them and make sure they hear that you are there to give an oral witness. The sponsor and their witnesses will speak first, when the oppostion or opposing side is called forward you must step forward and have a seat at the front table or if enough seats are not available I suggest standing just behind the chairs - if they ask you to have a seat tell them you are there to give an oral witness - be sure to say it loud enough for others to hear and then take a seat nearby or stand to one side.

 

7. Be sure to speak clearly, calmly, and firmly. Remember you have a constitutional right to be there , this is YOUR hearing, in YOUR capitol, and this is Your chance to be heard.

 

8. Afterwards try to thank any legislators that voted in your favor. Then I suggest you find your legislators' offices for a brief visit - tell your Sen. and Rep. you were there to witness in opposition to this bill and leave your statement with them urging them to vote against it if it should make it to the floor for a vote.

 

It is exciting to be a part of this process and to know we have a RIGHT to be there and participate. I encourage all of you, if you are available please attend the hearing - if you do not feel you can speak, then sign as a witness and leave your statements with the Clerk, they are required to enter it into the record. Sometimes, you will hear later in the floor debates, "Senator, did anyone appear to witness against/for this bill?" and there will be a response given.

 

This process of citizens taking part at the Committee level has been used and proven highly effective in the states that have been successful in gaining ground in the fight for Second Amendment Rights. It is not a process that has been used to it's fullest potential here in Illinois and this MUST change. The legislators must be given notice that the everyday citizen is fully aware of what we stand to lose and we will show up for the fight.

 

Molly B.

 

p.s. Who among us is available and willing?

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Rep. Bob Biggins is very Pro2A. Sen. Dan Cronin is so so. Neither go for crazy ideas. North Riverside is in their Republican Du page Districts because of teh gerrymandering by the Democrats who won the last map-drawing coin toss that cost the Republicans the State Senate and put the 2A at risk. When is the next map drawing coin toss-number out of the hat trick? It must be getting close!
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