AETF puts pot/MJ smokers on notice.

[mab22]

Recently the BAETF sent out a memo indicating that MJ users are not allowed to posses or purchase firearms and that there is a section on the 4473’s to declare that. They also stated to refuse to transfer fire arms to those that say yes.

Don’t be surprised if this administration does knock and talks to those that have medical MJ cards, or even those visiting the MJ shops. 

Remember, there is a record of the visits and It’s still federally illegal, and this DOJ is enforcing the law on citizens, not illegals, and you HAVE DUAL CITIZENSHIP.

Just passing it along, don’t shoot the messenger, as they say.

 

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/atf-pot-users-cant-legally-own-firearms-regardless-state-laws

 

 

Quote

"Until marijuana is legalized federally, firearms owners and possessors should be mindful that it remains federally illegal to mix marijuana with firearms and ammunition," said ATF acting special agent in charge of the of the St. Paul field division, Jeff Reed.

That warning from the ATF is concerning for Second Amendment rights advocate Rob Doar, vice president of the Minnesota Gun Owners Caucus. He said he's long been aware of the state-and-federal cannabis contradiction, whether it's for medical or recreational use.

Doar urges gun owners to be aware of the risks, even though under Minnesota's new law, sheriffs cannot deny someone a permit to carry solely because they are enrolled in the medical cannabis program or are an adult using marijuana. -CBS News

"I think if [the ATF agents] weren't planning on enforcing it, they may have just let it go and it would kind of be a wink-wink, nudge-nudge that yes it's illegal, but much like other federal cannabis prohibitions, we're not going to be enforcing it," said Doar, adding "The fact that they sent out the notice is cause for some raised eyebrows."

Cannabis attorney Jason Tarasek of Vincente LLP says that the federal government has typically turned a blind eye and has "left states alone" when it comes to those which have legalized marijuana, but now "It's an interesting song and dance we're going through with the federal government."

Doar and Tarasek would like clarification from the feds.

"It would be great to get some clearer guidance from the federal government that would make people in legal markets more comfortable that they don't need to be worried about the federal government knocking at their door," said Tarasek.

During the Obama years, the DOJ issued guidance advising that they wouldn't interfere in states that had legalized marijuana as long as it didn't interfere with federal law enforcement priorities. It was rescinded by former US Attorney General Jeff Sessions during the Trump administration.

 

 

[soundguy]

On 6/5/2023 at 11:08 PM, mab22 said:

Don’t be surprised if this administration does knock and talks to those that have medical MJ cards, or even those visiting the MJ shops. 

 

Good to know.

 

I would be very surprised if the ATF, under the Biden Administration, started doing door knocks on marijuana-using gun owners. Perhaps with some bi-partisan cooperation from whomever the big objectors are, cannabis can be declassified as a drug before the 2024 election. 

 

Obviously, guns don't mix with getting high no matter what your preferred method of getting high is.

 

Cheers,

Tim

[Black Flag]

On 6/5/2023 at 11:08 PM, mab22 said:

Don’t be surprised if this administration does knock and talks to those that have medical MJ cards, or even those visiting the MJ shops. 

I'm sure you can smoke all you want, this administration is tripping over itself to entrap you on the firearms alone.

[RandyP]

Until such time - if ever - that wacky weed becomes Federally legal? I think I'll continue to stick to the occasional beer and not have any concerns over perjury on a Federal 4473 form. Ask anyone, I'm goofy enough as it is without adding any strange chemicals to my chubby bod.😉

[SiliconSorcerer]

On 6/6/2023 at 12:55 AM, RandyP said:

Until such time - if ever - that wacky weed becomes Federally legal? I think I'll continue to stick to the occasional beer and not have any concerns over perjury on a Federal 4473 form. Ask anyone, I'm goofy enough as it is without adding any strange chemicals to my chubby bod.😉

Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance? 

 

If you not high when you fill the form, the answer is no. 

What you've done in the past is not necessarily indicative of future behavior. 

 

Also I'll add just because you have a medical card that does not prove you have used it even if there's a record of sale. 

 

[Jeffrey]

But if your name is Hunter you get a pass.  Also, drink responsibly...

[yurimodin]

ISP will tattle on you during the NICS check up to a year after your MJ card expires. Only reason it's not gone federally legal is they like the infringement loop hole and they haven't figured out how to suck all the money to their cronies 

[JamesW]

Every state seems to have it's own patchwork.

For example, straight from a government website:

"It is important to note, Honolulu Police Department’s current practice is to verify whether a firearm permit applicant is a medical cannabis registry participant and will deny firearm permits to individuals who are registered in this program."

https://health.hawaii.gov/medicalcan...w-enforcement/

 

[RandyP]

On 6/6/2023 at 8:13 AM, SiliconSorcerer said:

Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance? 

 

If you not high when you fill the form, the answer is no. 

What you've done in the past is not necessarily indicative of future behavior. 

 

Also I'll add just because you have a medical card that does not prove you have used it even if there's a record of sale. 

 

Based on FEDERAL law, and the 4473 IS a Federal form afterall, anyone who smokes pot IS an "unlawful user of". Doesn't say anything about 'Am I high right now'. To be clear I have no horse in this race, merely expressing my interpretation of the forms intent. Life is a series of choices and consequences.

[SiliconSorcerer]

On 6/6/2023 at 4:59 PM, RandyP said:

Based on FEDERAL law, and the 4473 IS a Federal form afterall, anyone who smokes pot IS an "unlawful user of". Doesn't say anything about 'Am I high right now'. To be clear I have no horse in this race, merely expressing my interpretation of the forms intent. Life is a series of choices and consequences.

if you smoked pot when you were 16 and your now 50 your an unlawful user and effectively banned from purchasing a firearm for life? 

 

[RandyP]

On 6/6/2023 at 5:09 PM, SiliconSorcerer said:

if you smoked pot when you were 16 and your now 50 your an unlawful user and effectively banned from purchasing a firearm for life? 

 

I 'think' that what I wrote is that anyone who SMOKES pot is an unlawful user as defined by Federal law. I could of course be mistaken. I don't see where I included your choice of scenario? My comment would therefore suggest regular/frequent users of the stuff.... at least that was my intent. Again, what anyone else does is of NO concern or interest to me. If I was an occasional user of the stuff I couldn't sign the 4473 stating I didn't.

[mab22]

On 6/6/2023 at 8:13 AM, SiliconSorcerer said:

Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance? 

Caffeine, Nicotine? Stimulant, Depressant. 
You might be able to make the argument that most of the county uses caffeine daily, is more than likely addicted, included the judge, who would be excluded. 
Based simply by the wording. 

[RandyP]

On 6/6/2023 at 10:34 PM, mab22 said:

Caffeine, Nicotine? Stimulant, Depressant. 
You might be able to make the argument that most of the county uses caffeine daily, is more than likely addicted, included the judge, who would be excluded. 
Based simply by the wording. 

The ATF notice simply puts 'recreational' users on notice. I'm personally more Libertarian than anything else and have a Hoosier brother -(Constitutional Carry State) who chuckles every time I mention the 3-day waiting period, permit classes and renewals, FOID cards and other 'nonsense' gun laws in Illinois. I further would have NO problem were the US a "Constitutional Stoner" country. This whole Rights depend on your Geography situation is a mess.

[SiliconSorcerer]

On 6/6/2023 at 5:23 PM, RandyP said:

I 'think' that what I wrote is that anyone who SMOKES pot is an unlawful user as defined by Federal law. I could of course be mistaken. I don't see where I included your choice of scenario? My comment would therefore suggest regular/frequent users of the stuff.... at least that was my intent. Again, what anyone else does is of NO concern or interest to me. If I was an occasional user of the stuff I couldn't sign the 4473 stating I didn't.

I'm just pointing out, the question is just to "Fuzzy", you could have decided to quit on the way to pick up your firearm and your no longer a user and could honestly answer no. 

For the record I don't think cannabis should be recreational use as well I think they are now allowing mushrooms as well, next will be legalized prostitution within designated area's like casino's (so they can tax it) 

 

Illinois just has a habit of creating laws that make the black market THRIVE.

The black market in cannabis has exploded with the legal weed products being at least 5 times more expensive. 

The black market now just drives to MI and buys it (sometimes) legally and sells it in IL for 4-5x the price.   (and pick up your fireworks on the way back)  

 

Requiring FFL transfers is another sounds good but this is going to have very bad consequences. 

 

 

[Black Flag]

On 6/7/2023 at 8:03 AM, SiliconSorcerer said:

Illinois just has a habit of creating laws that make the black market THRIVE.

The black market in cannabis has exploded with the legal weed products being at least 5 times more expensive. 

The black market now just drives to MI and buys it (sometimes) legally and sells it in IL for 4-5x the price.   (and pick up your fireworks on the way back)  

Are you sure on those numbers?

 

Do you have a cite or is this info from a shopper?

 

[ealcala31]

So, if you get a MMC in IL, you will never (almost never) pass a FTIP. If you decide you want your 2A rights back, you let the card expire or cancel it yourself and wait 1yr, then you get your 2A rights back in IL. IMO, I guess the ATF wants you to stay "clean" for 1yr (or don't get caught)...🤣

[SiliconSorcerer]

On 6/7/2023 at 8:56 AM, Black Flag said:

Are you sure on those numbers?

 

Do you have a cite or is this info from a shopper?

 

 

Pick an online dispensary and look, I'll lower it to 3-4x the price, I just looked myself.  (over the counter legal purchase)

 

 

 

[yurimodin]

On 6/8/2023 at 7:38 AM, SiliconSorcerer said:

 

Pick an online dispensary and look, I'll lower it to 3-4x the price, I just looked myself.  (over the counter legal purchase)

 

 

 

Haven't been to the dispo since early COVID days. I'm not paying those prices for that garbage product. Over $200 for 1/2 oz of pure crap.....and that's with the reduced tax on the medical side, LOL. Only thing IL gets from me is $150 every 3 years for that card that says I get to grow my own and store the excess in my home. I figure if DC doesn't get off its a** and legalize by the next time I need to renew I will just let it expire, scale back, and take my chances.

 

Funny thing is recreational is legal in DC but they don't change the law because they love the loophole and the campaign carrot to dangle.

[SiliconSorcerer]

On 6/8/2023 at 9:39 AM, yurimodin said:

Haven't been to the dispo since early COVID days. I'm not paying those prices for that garbage product. Over $200 for 1/2 oz of pure crap.....and that's with the reduced tax on the medical side, LOL. Only thing IL gets from me is $150 every 3 years for that card that says I get to grow my own and store the excess in my home. I figure if DC doesn't get off its a** and legalize by the next time I need to renew I will just let it expire, scale back, and take my chances.

 

Funny thing is recreational is legal in DC but they don't change the law because they love the loophole and the campaign carrot to dangle.

 

I got my card with encouragement from my pain doctor, had been on Fentanyl for years, I'm immune to normal opiates. 

Bought once in the store, was laughed at by a whole bunch of people for doing that and didn't renew my card.

I have 2 surgeries a year (they call it a surgery, I call it just a damn inconvenience) and they burn all the nerves out my spine.

But there's still occasional time the pain gets to me and a $20 1g vape lasts me many months, never went back when there (long ago) a 1/2 was $70 with a card, ... you. 

I've tried normal green, if I don't light it and put it out I'm toast, that ... is just way to strong to smoke anymore and wow the raw is soooo smelly. 

I guess that's why the big thing is now one hitters because if you do two you better be not going anywhere. 

 

This would probably be better in the back room. 

[Jeffrey]

On 6/8/2023 at 10:06 AM, SiliconSorcerer said:

 

I got my card with encouragement from my pain doctor, had been on Fentanyl for years, I'm immune to normal opiates. 

Bought once in the store, was laughed at by a whole bunch of people for doing that and didn't renew my card.

I have 2 surgeries a year (they call it a surgery, I call it just a damn inconvenience) and they burn all the nerves out my spine.

But there's still occasional time the pain gets to me and a $20 1g vape lasts me many months, never went back when there (long ago) a 1/2 was $70 with a card, ... you. 

I've tried normal green, if I don't light it and put it out I'm toast, that ... is just way to strong to smoke anymore and wow the raw is soooo smelly. 

I guess that's why the big thing is now one hitters because if you do two you better be not going anywhere. 

 

This would probably be better in the back room. 

Used to call it one hitter quitter when we were kids, or so I've heard.

[SiliconSorcerer]

On 6/8/2023 at 11:00 AM, Jeffrey said:

Used to call it one hitter quitter when we were kids, or so I've heard.

Back in those days you I heard you could roll and smoke a whole one and function and it was $5-10 a oz. 

[defaultdotxbe]

On 6/6/2023 at 5:09 PM, SiliconSorcerer said:

if you smoked pot when you were 16 and your now 50 your an unlawful user and effectively banned from purchasing a firearm for life? 

 

I believe the ATF interpretation is any use in the last 12 months makes you a current "user," after 12 months you are clear again.

[SiliconSorcerer]

On 6/14/2023 at 4:38 PM, defaultdotxbe said:

I believe the ATF interpretation is any use in the last 12 months makes you a current "user," after 12 months you are clear again.

There's a lot of things I wouldn't want to stand in a front of a judge for.  Do they expect everyone that reads this line to have law degree?

There's reasonable expectations, this is way to vague.