Flynn Posted May 3, 2023 at 11:15 PM Share Posted May 3, 2023 at 11:15 PM Since there is a lot of stuff already in the works, I would like to see chalenges not only to the need for a CCL (government permission slip) but the fact the state charges for it and mandates training and the limits imposed. I believe like other rights it should be automatic upon your 18th, no permission slip needed, no training needed, no fees and it should be exercisable without risk of criminal charge everywhere except limited secure and senstive places. Of course I would love to see a direct attack on the NFA entirely, I think right now a direct attack on the NFA at the Federal level is better than attacking Illinois laws that even further forbid NFA items... There are things like the tax stamps for NFA items that I should be stupid easy to get shot down as it's literally a poll tax, but I would like to see it entirely gutted, as I don't believe most of it is able to stand under the Heller/Bruen test. Select fire/full auto, suppressors should be as easy to purchase as any other firearm and accesssory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc2601 Posted May 4, 2023 at 12:02 AM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 12:02 AM On 5/3/2023 at 1:06 PM, Yeti said: All of the above! FOID, waiting period, suppressors, and 80%/ability to build & repair with homemade parts are my priorities along with restricted places (public transit, carry in buildings, etc). This. Don't forget to give some love to 80%, home builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djmarkla Posted May 4, 2023 at 12:49 AM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 12:49 AM How about a challenge to voters to stop electing Democrats in Illinois and hold the not much different Republicans feet to the fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mab22 Posted May 4, 2023 at 12:50 AM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 12:50 AM FOID ! FOID ! FOID ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mab22 Posted May 4, 2023 at 12:52 AM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 12:52 AM On 5/3/2023 at 6:15 PM, Flynn said: Since there is a lot of stuff already in the works, I would like to see chalenges not only to the need for a CCL (government permission slip) but the fact the state charges for it and mandates training and the limits imposed. I believe like other rights it should be automatic upon your 18th, no permission slip needed, no training needed, no fees and it should be exercisable without risk of criminal charge everywhere except limited secure and senstive places. Of course I would love to see a direct attack on the NFA entirely, I think right now a direct attack on the NFA at the Federal level is better than attacking Illinois laws that even further forbid NFA items... There are things like the tax stamps for NFA items that I should be stupid easy to get shot down as it's literally a poll tax, but I would like to see it entirely gutted, as I don't believe most of it is able to stand under the Heller/Bruen test. Select fire/full auto, suppressors should be as easy to purchase as any other firearm and accesssory. FOID, then this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingcreek Posted May 4, 2023 at 02:58 AM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 02:58 AM Many years ago I had a face to face conversation with Richard Pearson about the FOID. I said it should be challenged and abolished. He argued that it would be the vehicle to get CCW for Illinois. He was wrong. It should have been abolished long ago but since it wasn’t, now would be a great time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted May 4, 2023 at 03:12 AM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 03:12 AM On 5/3/2023 at 7:52 PM, mab22 said: FOID, then this stuff. Thus me starting with "Since there is a lot of stuff already in the works" FOID being unconstitutional is already in the system, so I skipped over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobPistol Posted May 4, 2023 at 05:23 AM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 05:23 AM (edited) On 5/3/2023 at 9:07 AM, Tvandermyde said: not with this legislature I didn't say using the legislature. The legislature would never go along with it. I meant to file in federal court to have that part of the Illinois constitution overturned. Have that part overturned - and everything else in this thread comes along for the ride. FOID is dead. So many restrictions gone. Imagine if the Illinois Constitution had a section that required schools to be segregated. That would be struck down in a heartbeat now. In the same way, thanks to Bruen, that part of the IL constitution (the "subject only to the police power" part) could be struck down. Edited May 4, 2023 at 05:27 AM by BobPistol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTriple Posted May 4, 2023 at 05:34 AM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 05:34 AM On 5/3/2023 at 9:58 PM, Kingcreek said: Many years ago I had a face to face conversation with Richard Pearson about the FOID. I said it should be challenged and abolished. He argued that it would be the vehicle to get CCW for Illinois. He was wrong. It should have been abolished long ago but since it wasn’t, now would be a great time. I recall an email from the ISRA a few years back suggesting that the FOID "wasn't going anywhere anytime soon" or something to that effect. That really irritated me, and I question why they didn't entertain the idea of filing a federal lawsuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtr2009 Posted May 4, 2023 at 06:53 AM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 06:53 AM (edited) On 5/3/2023 at 10:49 AM, Molly B. said: Removed the current ban on CCL for our military service members stationed in IL if they are not from one of the 6 states allowed to apply. Disagree, no special carve outs for anyone, under any circumstances. Fight for reciprocity in general, for all people. Which happens to be my #1. 1) CCL reciprocity 2) 80% Firearms 3) Suppressors 4) Remove all restrictions on deer hunting cartridges Edited May 4, 2023 at 06:56 AM by gtr2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanishjames Posted May 4, 2023 at 08:30 AM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 08:30 AM On 5/3/2023 at 11:46 AM, AlphaKoncepts aka CGS said: Public transit is absolutely the priority but that's already being attacked. cool down period. foid card (also being challenged). CCL melting point law I second all of these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilJim Posted May 4, 2023 at 10:30 AM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 10:30 AM (edited) Foid card* CCL Carve outs 80% Firearms Suppressors * Prohibited locations CCK reciprocity NFA ban *understood the these items are already in progress. Edited May 4, 2023 at 10:31 AM by LilJim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilguy Posted May 4, 2023 at 11:04 AM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 11:04 AM What ever we do the window opening for us is finite. Durbin and his cabal in the US senate are pushing through anti gun federal judges at a record pace. With his attacks on the Supreme Court and specifically Justice Thomas his sole purpose in life now is gaining total control of the courts. Very dangerous time for conservative values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tvandermyde Posted May 4, 2023 at 12:15 PM Author Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 12:15 PM Well some of the issues are being litigated, such as the ban on suppressors. There are times I disagree with the approach being taken in some litigation, not the suppressor case. After New York Valinda and I went through a list of things that were possible targets. I wanted to see what the pulse of people was. there is a challenge tot he FOID card in state court, and I believe Mr. Maag has one in the southern dist in federal court. A similar case has been heard in the 4th cir court of appeals. A win there would surely be a boost to the issue. I understand the non-resident thing. It is a big issue in terms of national reciprocity and things like that. My thoughts are more towards what gets Illinois' residents the most bang for the buck or tears down the most of the gun control infrastructure. some of which I'm not sure is ripe just yet. I think the Atkinson case will be a very good descriptive and road map on how we are to proceed under 2A issues in the 7th post New York. We don't want to replicate work and do want to have meaningful impact. As an example, the ban on carrying in casinos. There are what 8 casino's in Illinois? and even if the state ban was overturned, they would likely post. Same with hospitals. So the Return on investment (ROI) for the end net game is very little for all the effort. Overturning the FOID card on the other hand would probably yield the largest return to Illinois gun owners. Kinda how I am looking at it to make some recommendations on how to go after some things. I think the state is really loosing it after St Stephen's ruling last week and would really like to see them just pulling their hair out as we rip Illinois gun control out by the roots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly B. Posted May 4, 2023 at 12:50 PM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 12:50 PM On 5/4/2023 at 1:53 AM, gtr2009 said: Disagree, no special carve outs for anyone, under any circumstances. Fight for reciprocity in general, for all people. Which happens to be my #1. 1) CCL reciprocity 2) 80% Firearms 3) Suppressors 4) Remove all restrictions on deer hunting cartridges It isn't a carve out, these service members and their families live in Illinois and should have the same rights as other residents. It's an atrocity that the men and women who protect this country and can carry full auto weapons when fulfilling their duties, can't carry to protect themselves and their families. AN ATROCITY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countyline Posted May 4, 2023 at 01:19 PM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 01:19 PM On 5/3/2023 at 9:58 PM, Kingcreek said: Many years ago I had a face to face conversation with Richard Pearson about the FOID. I said it should be challenged and abolished. He argued that it would be the vehicle to get CCW for Illinois. He was wrong. It should have been abolished long ago but since it wasn’t, now would be a great time. Pearson is a fudd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packy Posted May 4, 2023 at 01:28 PM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 01:28 PM Someone mentioned getting constitutional carry. I am against constitutional carry. People need training. Without training people have no clue about what is safe and unsafe. Fingers will be on the trigger. In the old days training was passed down father to family. Everyone needed to know how to properly use a gun to defend the family. We don’t have that anymore. I suspect the constitutional states will see a rise in accidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmyers Posted May 4, 2023 at 01:38 PM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 01:38 PM On 5/4/2023 at 8:28 AM, Packy said: Someone mentioned getting constitutional carry. I am against constitutional carry. People need training. Without training people have no clue about what is safe and unsafe. Fingers will be on the trigger. In the old days training was passed down father to family. Everyone needed to know how to properly use a gun to defend the family. We don’t have that anymore. I suspect the constitutional states will see a rise in accidents. I disagree, the State/government should not require any training/special requirements to exercise a RIGHT. Yes, knowledge use to be based down, but there are simply four rules that have to be followed for safe gun handling: 1) Treat all firearms as if they are loaded 2) Know you target and what is beyond your target 3) Never point a firearm at anything you don't want to destroy 4) Keep your finger off the trigger till you are ready to fire Those rules are covered in every firearm manual that comes with a firearm that I have purchased. As adults, you need to take responsibility for your level of training. If you don't have enough knowledge, then you need to get further training. It isn't up to the government to tell you what training to get to exercise your RIGHT. Realizing, that if you improperly exercise your RIGHT, you will be held accountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mab22 Posted May 4, 2023 at 01:51 PM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 01:51 PM On 5/4/2023 at 8:38 AM, bmyers said: I disagree, the State/government should not require any training/special requirements to exercise a RIGHT. Yes, knowledge use to be based down, but there are simply four rules that have to be followed for safe gun handling: 1) Treat all firearms as if they are loaded 2) Know you target and what is beyond your target 3) Never point a firearm at anything you don't want to destroy 4) Keep your finger off the trigger till you are ready to fire Those rules are covered in every firearm manual that comes with a firearm that I have purchased. As adults, you need to take responsibility for your level of training. If you don't have enough knowledge, then you need to get further training. It isn't up to the government to tell you what training to get to exercise your RIGHT. Realizing, that if you improperly exercise your RIGHT, you will be held accountable. I have heard stories that this was also taught in schools many moons ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plinkermostly Posted May 4, 2023 at 01:55 PM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 01:55 PM FOID, CCL, and taxes and fees etc, restricted areas (transportation), . . . shall not be infringed pretty much does it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScopeEye Posted May 4, 2023 at 02:03 PM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 02:03 PM Constitutional carry... The fees for CCL are not reasonable, training fees too My Utah CCL renewal was like $25 FOID has to go I should be allowed to carry Everywhere no restrictions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeti Posted May 4, 2023 at 02:33 PM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 02:33 PM On 5/4/2023 at 8:28 AM, Packy said: Someone mentioned getting constitutional carry. I am against constitutional carry. People need training. Without training people have no clue about what is safe and unsafe. Fingers will be on the trigger. In the old days training was passed down father to family. Everyone needed to know how to properly use a gun to defend the family. We don’t have that anymore. I suspect the constitutional states will see a rise in accidents. Do you have any data to back that up now that there are 27 states with permitless carry/ no mandatory training to carry and many have had it for years and years now? I haven’t seen any. This same thing has been speculated every time a state removes training requirements and, just like the “blood will flow in the streets” claims from the antis, the trend doesn’t show it. A huge percentage of the annual defensive uses of firearms are successful when the defenders have not been trained. It is not the place of government to force training for a given right. Training is a GREAT idea and SHOULD be utilized but cannot be mandated. Some states have seen an increase in training when the requirements are removed as people get to train what they want to in a non-mandatory fashion. For example, a study by the CPRC showed that training increased in TX when the government requirements dropped as it made it more cost-effective to train (more $ to training, less to the gov) for those with limited funding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumgod Posted May 4, 2023 at 02:54 PM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 02:54 PM On 5/4/2023 at 8:28 AM, Packy said: Someone mentioned getting constitutional carry. I am against constitutional carry. People need training. Without training people have no clue about what is safe and unsafe. Fingers will be on the trigger. In the old days training was passed down father to family. Everyone needed to know how to properly use a gun to defend the family. We don’t have that anymore. I suspect the constitutional states will see a rise in accidents. I hope you have a license for that post. Free speech is way too dangerous without training. Clueless people could go around spouting whatever opinion they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richp Posted May 4, 2023 at 02:55 PM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 02:55 PM One might expect that at some point insurance companies that offer concealed carry insurance, and perhaps companies with more general liability coverage built into their policies, will either require, or give a discount for training. That might kick in if you had firearms under some kind of an additional rider on your homeowner policy. Sort of along the lines of the discount I get on my homeowner's insurance for having a security system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikew Posted May 4, 2023 at 02:57 PM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 02:57 PM On 5/4/2023 at 8:28 AM, Packy said: Someone mentioned getting constitutional carry. I am against constitutional carry. People need training. Without training people have no clue about what is safe and unsafe. Fingers will be on the trigger. In the old days training was passed down father to family. Everyone needed to know how to properly use a gun to defend the family. We don’t have that anymore. I suspect the constitutional states will see a rise in accidents. You favor having to get permission from the government first, before carrying a firearm? How about before owning one? How about permission from the government before voting? Before buying a book? Before writing one? Rights are interesting things. Freedom can mean some potentially dangerous things are legal. The potential for accidents is not reason enough for infringement, but education and training are certainly to be encouraged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Posted May 4, 2023 at 03:14 PM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 03:14 PM On 5/4/2023 at 8:28 AM, Packy said: Someone mentioned getting constitutional carry. I am against constitutional carry. People need training. Without training people have no clue about what is safe and unsafe. Fingers will be on the trigger. In the old days training was passed down father to family. Everyone needed to know how to properly use a gun to defend the family. We don’t have that anymore. I suspect the constitutional states will see a rise in accidents. huh? You should get a permit before spewing that bull ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mab22 Posted May 4, 2023 at 03:17 PM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 03:17 PM 1. How about the bureaucracies that congress lets' run wild in Illinois? Congress gives powers to the bureaucracies to make "decisions" and design methods to drive you insane. Examples, ISP gets to create a FOID board of appeals, IL DNR gets to decide "what an assault weapon is", IL EPA can claim that you can't use lead for hunting, There was a case last in at the Supreme court about restricting how much "authority and power" these agencies have. There is another case about Chevron deference. https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-supreme-court-takes-up-fishermens-fight-over-us-conservation-funding-2023-05-01/ My understanding is the state police are the ones who run the NICS checks. 1. the state could save a whole lot of money by not being the middle man between a FFL and the fed's. Could this also be an invasion of privacy by the state who is probably maintaining a record of the transactions? If someone of making a purchase through a FFL in accordance with the laws you would think that is someone making the purchase for lawful use. 3 day wait on long guns, can we get rid of that? Waiving of rights to privacy in order to qualify for a FOID, this should be self explanatory. Prohibited possessor "list". Apparently you can say something stupid or behave stupidly, not get convicted of a "crime" and get put on a naughty list and you will not be able to obtain a FOID OR you can have it revoked without the need for a Judge. And then you have to go through a bureaucracy to try and get what I would call a "conviction overturned". Here are a couple, of the many threads about the "bureaucracies" gone wild. 2. FOID Related. I guess a lot of us are unfamiliar with how many FOID cases there are. My concern is a repeat of the last time FOID was on the ropes and someone negotiated to "save it" because it "does more good than harm". Maybe we need to monitor those cases closer. 30 Day waiting period - You cant' tell me that you can't determine a persons eligibility to have a FOID can't be determined in the same amount of time as a traffic stop. This should be instant given modern technology, you can even issue a temporary paper copy that can be used to make a purchase the same day. Just like paper tags on a car. 90 days for CCL, again, you can determine someones eligibility at a traffic stop. Not to mention the total COST of a CCL, let alone the renewal and BS hoops. I will come up with more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnwfan3 Posted May 4, 2023 at 03:20 PM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 03:20 PM Throw in the Crook County gun and ammo tax as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTriple Posted May 4, 2023 at 03:26 PM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 03:26 PM Something that just came to mind: We need to significantly speed up the process of obtaining an FCCL. In some states, you can obtain a carry permit shockingly quick, so there's no excuse for the state taking months to process your application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigcr2 Posted May 4, 2023 at 03:41 PM Share Posted May 4, 2023 at 03:41 PM On 5/4/2023 at 9:55 AM, richp said: One might expect that at some point insurance companies that offer concealed carry insurance, and perhaps companies with more general liability coverage built into their policies, will either require, or give a discount for training. That might kick in if you had firearms under some kind of an additional rider on your homeowner policy. Sort of along the lines of the discount I get on my homeowner's insurance for having a security system. They already do. For example, CCW Safe’s Defender plan requires a CCL and costs $209/year. Their Constitutional Carry plan is $299/year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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