Jump to content

what should we do next?


Recommended Posts

Since there is a lot of stuff already in the works, I would like to see chalenges not only to the need for a CCL (government permission slip) but the fact the state charges for it and mandates training and the limits imposed.  I believe like other rights it should be automatic upon your 18th, no permission slip needed, no training needed, no fees and it should be exercisable without risk of criminal charge everywhere except limited secure and senstive places.

 

Of course I would love to see a direct attack on the NFA entirely, I think right now a direct attack on the NFA at the Federal level is better than attacking Illinois laws that even further forbid NFA items...  There are things like the tax stamps for NFA items that I should be stupid easy to get shot down as it's literally a poll tax, but I would like to see it entirely gutted, as I don't believe most of it is able to stand under the Heller/Bruen test.   Select fire/full auto, suppressors should be as easy to purchase as any other firearm and accesssory.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/3/2023 at 1:06 PM, Yeti said:

All of the above!

 

 FOID, waiting period, suppressors, and 80%/ability to build & repair with homemade parts are my priorities along with restricted places (public transit, carry in buildings, etc).

This. Don't forget to give some love to 80%, home builds. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/3/2023 at 6:15 PM, Flynn said:

Since there is a lot of stuff already in the works, I would like to see chalenges not only to the need for a CCL (government permission slip) but the fact the state charges for it and mandates training and the limits imposed.  I believe like other rights it should be automatic upon your 18th, no permission slip needed, no training needed, no fees and it should be exercisable without risk of criminal charge everywhere except limited secure and senstive places.

 

Of course I would love to see a direct attack on the NFA entirely, I think right now a direct attack on the NFA at the Federal level is better than attacking Illinois laws that even further forbid NFA items...  There are things like the tax stamps for NFA items that I should be stupid easy to get shot down as it's literally a poll tax, but I would like to see it entirely gutted, as I don't believe most of it is able to stand under the Heller/Bruen test.   Select fire/full auto, suppressors should be as easy to purchase as any other firearm and accesssory.

FOID, then this stuff. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/3/2023 at 9:07 AM, Tvandermyde said:

not with this legislature

 

I didn't say using the legislature.    The legislature would never go along with it. 

I meant to file in federal court to have that part of the Illinois constitution overturned. 

Have that part overturned - and everything else in this thread comes along for the ride.  FOID is dead.   So many restrictions gone. 

 

Imagine if the Illinois Constitution had a section that required schools to be segregated.   That would be struck down in a heartbeat now. 

In the same way, thanks to Bruen, that part of the IL constitution (the "subject only to the police power" part) could be struck down. 

Edited by BobPistol
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/3/2023 at 9:58 PM, Kingcreek said:

Many years ago I had a face to face conversation with Richard Pearson about the FOID. I said it should be challenged and abolished. He argued that it would be the vehicle to get CCW for Illinois.

He was wrong.

It should have been abolished long ago but since it wasn’t, now would be a great time.

I recall an email from the ISRA a few years back suggesting that the FOID "wasn't going anywhere anytime soon" or something to that effect. That really irritated me, and I question why they didn't entertain the idea of filing a federal lawsuit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/3/2023 at 10:49 AM, Molly B. said:

Removed the current ban on CCL for our military service members stationed in IL if they are not from one of the 6 states allowed to apply.

 

Disagree, no special carve outs for anyone, under any circumstances.  Fight for reciprocity in general, for all people.  Which happens to be my #1. 

1) CCL reciprocity

2) 80% Firearms

3) Suppressors 

4) Remove all restrictions on deer hunting cartridges

Edited by gtr2009
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What ever we do the window opening for us is finite. Durbin and his cabal in the US senate are pushing through anti gun federal judges at a record pace. With his attacks on the Supreme Court and specifically Justice Thomas his sole purpose in life now is gaining total control of the courts. Very dangerous time for conservative values.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well some of the issues are being litigated, such as the ban on suppressors. There are times I disagree with the approach being taken in some litigation, not the suppressor case.

 

After New York Valinda and I went through a list of things that were possible targets. I wanted to see what the pulse of people was. there is a challenge tot he FOID card in state court, and I believe Mr. Maag has one in the southern dist in federal court. A similar case has been heard in the 4th cir court of appeals. A win there would surely be a boost to the issue. 

 

I understand the non-resident thing. It is a big issue in terms of national reciprocity and things like that. My thoughts are more towards what gets Illinois' residents the most bang for the buck or tears down the most of the gun control infrastructure. some of which I'm not sure is ripe just yet. I think the Atkinson case will be a very good descriptive and road map on how we are to proceed under 2A issues in the 7th post New York. 

 

We don't want to replicate work and do want to have meaningful impact. As an example, the ban on carrying in casinos. There are what 8 casino's in Illinois? and even if the state ban was overturned, they would likely post. Same with hospitals. So the Return on investment (ROI) for the end net game is very little for all the effort. 

 

Overturning the FOID card on the other hand would probably yield the largest return to Illinois gun owners.

 

Kinda how I am looking at it to make some recommendations on how to go after some things. 

 

I think the state is really loosing it after St Stephen's ruling last week and would really like to see them just pulling their hair out as we rip Illinois gun control out by the roots.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/4/2023 at 1:53 AM, gtr2009 said:

Disagree, no special carve outs for anyone, under any circumstances.  Fight for reciprocity in general, for all people.  Which happens to be my #1. 

1) CCL reciprocity

2) 80% Firearms

3) Suppressors 

4) Remove all restrictions on deer hunting cartridges

 

 

It isn't a carve out,  these service members and their families live in Illinois and should have the same rights as other residents. It's an atrocity that the men and women who protect this country and can carry full auto weapons when fulfilling their duties, can't carry to protect themselves and their families. 

 

AN ATROCITY. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/3/2023 at 9:58 PM, Kingcreek said:

Many years ago I had a face to face conversation with Richard Pearson about the FOID. I said it should be challenged and abolished. He argued that it would be the vehicle to get CCW for Illinois.

He was wrong.

It should have been abolished long ago but since it wasn’t, now would be a great time.

Pearson is a fudd.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Someone mentioned getting constitutional carry. I am against constitutional carry. People need training. Without training people have no clue about what is safe and unsafe. Fingers will be on the trigger. In the old days training was passed down father to family. Everyone needed to know how to properly use a gun to defend the family. We don’t have that anymore. I suspect the constitutional states will see a rise in accidents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/4/2023 at 8:28 AM, Packy said:

Someone mentioned getting constitutional carry. I am against constitutional carry. People need training. Without training people have no clue about what is safe and unsafe. Fingers will be on the trigger. In the old days training was passed down father to family. Everyone needed to know how to properly use a gun to defend the family. We don’t have that anymore. I suspect the constitutional states will see a rise in accidents.

 

I disagree, the State/government should not require any training/special requirements to exercise a RIGHT. Yes, knowledge use to be based down, but there are simply four rules that have to be followed for safe gun handling:

 

1) Treat all firearms as if they are loaded

2) Know you target and what is beyond your target

3) Never point a firearm at anything you don't want to destroy

4) Keep your finger off the trigger till you are ready to fire

 

Those rules are covered in every firearm manual that comes with a firearm that I have purchased. 

 

As adults, you need to take responsibility for your level of training. If you don't have enough knowledge, then you need to get further training. It isn't up to the government to tell you what training to get to exercise your RIGHT.

 

Realizing, that if you improperly exercise  your RIGHT, you will be held accountable. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/4/2023 at 8:38 AM, bmyers said:

 

I disagree, the State/government should not require any training/special requirements to exercise a RIGHT. Yes, knowledge use to be based down, but there are simply four rules that have to be followed for safe gun handling:

 

1) Treat all firearms as if they are loaded

2) Know you target and what is beyond your target

3) Never point a firearm at anything you don't want to destroy

4) Keep your finger off the trigger till you are ready to fire

 

Those rules are covered in every firearm manual that comes with a firearm that I have purchased. 

 

As adults, you need to take responsibility for your level of training. If you don't have enough knowledge, then you need to get further training. It isn't up to the government to tell you what training to get to exercise your RIGHT.

 

Realizing, that if you improperly exercise  your RIGHT, you will be held accountable. 

I have heard stories that this was also taught in schools many moons ago. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/4/2023 at 8:28 AM, Packy said:

Someone mentioned getting constitutional carry. I am against constitutional carry. People need training. Without training people have no clue about what is safe and unsafe. Fingers will be on the trigger. In the old days training was passed down father to family. Everyone needed to know how to properly use a gun to defend the family. We don’t have that anymore. I suspect the constitutional states will see a rise in accidents.

Do you have any data to back that up now that there are 27 states with permitless carry/ no mandatory training to carry and many have had it for years and years now?  I haven’t seen any.  This same thing has been speculated every time a state removes training requirements and, just like the “blood will flow in the streets” claims from the antis, the trend doesn’t show it.  A huge percentage of the annual defensive uses of firearms are successful when the defenders have not been trained. 

 

It is not the place of government to force training for a given right.  Training is a GREAT idea and SHOULD be utilized but cannot be mandated.  Some states have seen an increase in training when the requirements are removed as people get to train what they want to in a non-mandatory fashion.  For example, a study by the CPRC showed that training increased in TX when the government requirements dropped as it made it more cost-effective to train (more $ to training, less to the gov) for those with limited funding.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/4/2023 at 8:28 AM, Packy said:

Someone mentioned getting constitutional carry. I am against constitutional carry. People need training. Without training people have no clue about what is safe and unsafe. Fingers will be on the trigger. In the old days training was passed down father to family. Everyone needed to know how to properly use a gun to defend the family. We don’t have that anymore. I suspect the constitutional states will see a rise in accidents.

 

I hope you have a license for that post. Free speech is way too dangerous without training. Clueless people could go around spouting whatever opinion they want.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One might expect that at some point insurance companies that offer concealed carry insurance, and perhaps companies with more general liability coverage built into their policies, will either require, or give a discount for training. That might kick in if you had firearms under some kind of an additional rider on your homeowner policy.

 

Sort of along the lines of the discount I get on my homeowner's insurance for having a security system.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/4/2023 at 8:28 AM, Packy said:

Someone mentioned getting constitutional carry. I am against constitutional carry. People need training. Without training people have no clue about what is safe and unsafe. Fingers will be on the trigger. In the old days training was passed down father to family. Everyone needed to know how to properly use a gun to defend the family. We don’t have that anymore. I suspect the constitutional states will see a rise in accidents.

You favor having to get permission from the government first, before carrying a firearm?
How about before owning one?

How about permission from the government before voting?
Before buying a book?

Before writing one?

 

Rights are interesting things.
Freedom can mean some potentially dangerous things are legal.
The potential for accidents is not reason enough for infringement, but education and training are certainly to be encouraged.

 


 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/4/2023 at 8:28 AM, Packy said:

Someone mentioned getting constitutional carry. I am against constitutional carry. People need training. Without training people have no clue about what is safe and unsafe. Fingers will be on the trigger. In the old days training was passed down father to family. Everyone needed to know how to properly use a gun to defend the family. We don’t have that anymore. I suspect the constitutional states will see a rise in accidents.

huh?  You should get a permit before spewing that bull ****.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. How about the bureaucracies that congress lets' run wild in Illinois?

Congress gives powers to the bureaucracies to make "decisions" and design methods to drive you insane.
Examples, ISP gets to create a FOID board of appeals, IL DNR gets to decide "what an assault weapon is", IL EPA can claim that you can't use lead for hunting, There was a case last in at the Supreme court about restricting how much "authority and power" these agencies have. There is another case about Chevron deference. https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-supreme-court-takes-up-fishermens-fight-over-us-conservation-funding-2023-05-01/

 

My understanding is the state police are the ones who run the NICS checks.
1. the state could save a whole lot of money by not being the middle man between a FFL and the fed's. Could this also be an invasion of privacy by the state who is probably maintaining a record of the transactions? If someone of making a purchase through a FFL in accordance with the laws you would think that is someone making the purchase for lawful use.
 

3 day wait on long guns, can we get rid of that?

 

Waiving of rights to privacy in order to qualify for a FOID, this should be self explanatory.

 

Prohibited possessor "list". Apparently you can say something stupid or behave stupidly, not get convicted of a "crime" and get put on a naughty list and you will not be able to obtain a FOID OR you can have it revoked without the need for a Judge. And then you have to go through a bureaucracy to try and get what I would call a "conviction overturned".

Here are a couple, of the many threads about the "bureaucracies" gone wild.

 

 

 

2. FOID Related.

I guess a lot of us are unfamiliar with how many FOID cases there are. My concern is a repeat of the last time FOID was on the ropes and someone negotiated to "save it" because it "does more good than harm". Maybe we need to monitor those cases closer.

 

30 Day waiting period - You cant' tell me that you can't determine a persons eligibility to have a FOID can't be determined in the same amount of time as a traffic stop. This should be instant given modern technology, you can even issue a temporary paper copy that can be used to make a purchase the same day. Just like paper tags on a car.

 

90 days for CCL, again, you can determine someones eligibility at a traffic stop.
Not to mention the total COST of a CCL, let alone the renewal and BS hoops.

 

I will come up with more.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Something that just came to mind: We need to significantly speed up the process of obtaining an FCCL. In some states, you can obtain a carry permit shockingly quick, so there's no excuse for the state taking months to process your application.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/4/2023 at 9:55 AM, richp said:

One might expect that at some point insurance companies that offer concealed carry insurance, and perhaps companies with more general liability coverage built into their policies, will either require, or give a discount for training. That might kick in if you had firearms under some kind of an additional rider on your homeowner policy.

 

Sort of along the lines of the discount I get on my homeowner's insurance for having a security system.

They already do. For example, CCW Safe’s Defender plan requires a CCL and costs $209/year. Their Constitutional Carry plan is $299/year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...