SIG P320: The most dangerous handgun

[Euler]

The Wyoming guy video is still a nothingburger. Here's a guy showing you can do the same thing with a Glock. He uses a milling machine with a digital readout to get measurements in thousandths of inches, which I think is kind of cool.

[RandyP]

SIG makes some mighty fine firearms. Sadly, although they WILL eventually find the mechanical reason for this P320 problem and fix it, their reputation is now wrecked across their product line. I could not carry a gun I don't trust 100%.

[carry]

 

 

A good summary, "allegedly".

 

 

[John Q Public]

Well, first off a firearm can never have an ND. Unless you are talking negligent design.  What we have is an AD. The problem is the terms have been misused so much, they have lost their true meaning. An ND is when the shooter screwed up, an AD is when the gun did. 

 

Please get the simple stuff right, if you are going to pose as someone who knows something... anything. 

 

JQ

 

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2025 at 05:47 PM by John Q Public

[Euler]

On August 2, 2025 at 12:44 PM CDT, John Q Public said:→

...
Please get the simple stuff right, if you are going to pose as someone who knows something... anything.

The title card is ridiculing SIG's "It Ends Today" campaign (with "It NDs Today"), but there is other misinformation in the video, like saying that the Air Force doesn't trust the striker safety because their standard procedure to verify proper function includes inspecting the safety.

I've seen conflicting information on whether the safety is stamped or MIM'ed, but MIM'ing it doesn't save $30 per unit over stamping it. It's not a good candidate to save cost with MIM, because it's just a bent piece of flat metal.

I wonder if this guy doesn't know anything or if he's just hyping for views. I quit halfway though.

[Euler]

At about 32:05, this Military Arms Channel interview with SIG from May 12 depicts some vibration testing that SIG does. SIG is testing for accidental sear release. It should simultaneously test for the striker safety spring jostling loose.

At about 16:25 (video from May 30), The SIG Armorer suggests checking if a P320 has a MIM striker safety lever and replacing it with a stamped one. Early levers were MIM'ed. Later levers are stamped.

In another video from July 31, Andrew Branca (Law of Self-Defense) mentions a case where a jury found that "everybody knows" that P320s are defective and argues that, even if P320s are mechanically perfect, what juries believe to be true is what determines cases. So everyone who uses a P320 or allows others to use P320s will be legally liable as if the P320 was know to be defective and used (or allowed to be used) a P320 regardless.

For an individual, I think that argument breaks down a bit, because individuals are responsible for what they do with their firearms, anyway. Organizations (e.g., police departments) that issue/mandate/allow P320s may want to limit liability. Ranges and classes are in-between, since they have waivers, but they may find they have fewer customers.

Edited August 3, 2025 at 08:23 PM by Euler

[Euler]

This issue may get some play elsewhere, so I'll include it here.

A guy who operates the website Practical Shooting Insights posted an article titled "The Document Sig Sauer Doesn't Want You to See About the P320."

He noticed that SIG objected to a document filed in SIG Sauer v Bagnell at docket #202. It's an internal SIG document that's heavily "redacted," but isn't really redacted. It just has black text on a black background. You can sweep a mouse across the "redacted" area to select text. He posted an unredacted version and included it in his article.

I'm not sure it's a big deal. The document is dated February 16, 2017, and includes a note that SIG was notified of a customer with a drop safe issue on February 1. SIG announced the voluntary upgrade program on August 8. There is conjecture that SIG's motivation to remove the document from the court record is to cover up the 6-month interval between those two things.

[ScottFM]

While Sig has caused me to lose trust in them because of the poor way they have handled this P320 issue. I will still stand behind the P320. After all it is the only safe place to be around one! LOL! 

[yurimodin]

I never got the obsession with SIG, It's not like you are buying a West German 226. A plastic striker fired pistol is a plastic striker fired pistol. At least Glock has 30+ years of track record on their design and manufacture of theirs(S&W now has 20+ years on their M&P). No point in spending the same money(or more) to be their guinea pig.  

[SiliconSorcerer]

On 8/4/2025 at 9:42 AM, yurimodin said:

I never got the obsession with SIG, It's not like you are buying a West German 226. A plastic striker fired pistol is a plastic striker fired pistol. At least Glock has 30+ years of track record on their design and manufacture of theirs(S&W now has 20+ years on their M&P). No point in spending the same money(or more) to be their guinea pig.  

Got a couple of those (old German ones), P210,P225,P226,P228,P229 - never much like most plastic guns until the sig P365.  

 

 

 

[John Q Public]

An old competition argument I had, over and over, is striker fired were okay and could be DA, but only of they did not pre-****/half-**** whatever. It's a means of making the trigger much better and lighter, but hoping to keep the safety of a DA. Thing is, even when they achieve that goal...  IMO it's still not a DA, that is unless you take a true hammer DA a partial **** position. This has also proved unsafe in certain circumstances. The bottom line, for me, is unless, you are a team guy, or operator, or pro with years and tons of rounds, I suggest you go DA or DSA on a firearm that has that capacity.  In point of fact, unless you are the previously mentioned I would stick with a DAO, or Revo. 

 

Those who teach, and actually know something about the average cop, or civi will probably agree with me. The say these sticker guns are DA, or even DAO, but they are not! The do have the same trigger pull for every round, but they start from varying levels of pre engagement or tension. 

 

Just me 2 JQ

[yurimodin]

On 8/5/2025 at 12:03 PM, John Q Public said:

An old competition argument I had, over and over, is striker fired were okay and could be DA, but only of they did not pre-****/half-**** whatever. It's a means of making the trigger much better and lighter, but hoping to keep the safety of a DA. Thing is, even when they achieve that goal...  IMO it's still not a DA, that is unless you take a true hammer DA a partial **** position. This has also proved unsafe in certain circumstances. The bottom line, for me, is unless, you are a team guy, or operator, or pro with years and tons of rounds, I suggest you go DA or DSA on a firearm that has that capacity.  In point of fact, unless you are the previously mentioned I would stick with a DAO, or Revo. 

 

Those who teach, and actually know something about the average cop, or civi will probably agree with me. The say these sticker guns are DA, or even DAO, but they are not! The do have the same trigger pull for every round, but they start from varying levels of pre engagement or tension. 

 

Just me 2 JQ

I hardly call having the trigger pull the last 10% of the firing pin's cocking stroke a DA. I treat them like they are single actions. The good news is they have a barrel safety so the firing pin is blocked until you actually pull the trigger (at least on a non p320 anyway)

[Euler]

On August 5, 2025 at 05:39 PM CDT, yurimodin said:→

... the firing pin is blocked until you actually pull the trigger (at least on a non p320 anyway)

P320s have a striker safety that blocks the striker unless/until the trigger is pulled, too.

[davel501]

Looks like there's a patent for the fix

 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20250164203A1/en?oq=US-20250164203-A1

 

"

• The manual safety version of the popular P320 firearm which is currently being sold to the civilian, law enforcement and military markets features a safety mechanism which mechanically blocks the trigger bar from moving.
• [0004]
  This keeps the trigger from being pulled while the safety lever is in the “safe” position. While this will prevent the trigger bar from moving forward and acting upon the sear to release the firing pin but it does not, in any way, prevent the sear itself from moving under the force from any other action"

Edited August 6, 2025 at 03:28 AM by davel501

[Euler]

The patent was filed by a guy from Angled Spade. It looks like they intended to offer it as a custom part in their own shop.

[John Q Public]

On 8/5/2025 at 5:39 PM, yurimodin said:

I hardly call having the trigger pull the last 10% of the firing pin's cocking stroke a DA. I treat them like they are single actions. The good news is they have a barrel safety so the firing pin is blocked until you actually pull the trigger (at least on a non p320 anyway)

Then we agree, that was my point form the jump, Did you read the post? 

[davel501]

On 8/5/2025 at 11:33 PM, Euler said:

The patent was filed by a guy from Angled Spade. It looks like they intended to offer it as a custom part in their own shop.

 

https://concealednation.org/2025/08/sig-p320-patent-safety-fix/

 

"UPDATE: After doing further research, we have found the following; Angled Spade Technologies, LLC is a Connecticut-based firearms consulting and development firm founded in 2022 by industry veterans Matt Dulude, and Joe Salvador. The company operates out of Suffield, CT, and has no formal ties to Sig Sauer. However, it has developed a proprietary upgrade kit aimed at fixing safety concerns with the Sig P320 pistol. A key connection is Brian McDonald, a former Sig Sauer engineer, who filed a patent in 2024 for a P320 safety fix and later assigned that patent to Angled Spade. This indicates McDonald is working with Angled Spade, likely as a collaborator, to address the P320’s safety issues independently of Sig Sauer." 

 

Curious if sig turned down his fix or even refused to let him work on it for fear of creating evidence. 

[SiliconSorcerer]

The best Sig screwed this one up proof I've seen

 

i don't have a p320 but its the first stiker fire I shot that the trigger didn't suck. 

 

[yurimodin]

On 8/6/2025 at 2:05 PM, John Q Public said:

Then we agree, that was my point form the jump, Did you read the post? 

 

Yes, I was just restating it in a different way.

[Euler]

On August 7, 2025 at 07:10 AM CDT, SiliconSorcerer said:→

The best Sig screwed this one up proof I've seen
...

A video narrated by voice synthesizer, with other videos from the same video farm (advertised in the video description):

• BREAKING: 9–0 Ruling DESTROYS State Gun Control Laws - You Won’t Believe What It Says!
• Trump Just Made the NFA Completely ILLEGAL
• BREAKING: Elon Musk Just BETRAYED Gun Owners!

You decide.

[John Q Public]

Links and detail would be good my friend...

 

JQ

[Euler]

?

[AlphaKoncepts aka CGS]

Sig is handling this all wrong. Whether the problem is real or perceived, how they are handling it is harming their reputation. I own 320's and chose to ban them from all my training classes last week. 

 

Where there is smoke, there is fire.  It's become no longer worth the risk. 

[SiliconSorcerer]

Another obsessed with p320 video another different thing but has this been tested on other striker fired ?

Not a firearm in holster problem

 

[ScottFM]

On 8/7/2025 at 5:20 PM, AlphaKoncepts aka CGS said:

Sig is handling this all wrong. Whether the problem is real or perceived, how they are handling it is harming their reputation. I own 320's and chose to ban them from all my training classes last week. 

 

Where there is smoke, there is fire.  It's become no longer worth the risk. 

Agreed

 

But think of the absolute mess that will happen if the US Government comes to that conclusion! Mein Gott! The 100's of thousands of guns that will have to be replaced will be a real tax burden and operational nightmare! 

[John Q Public]

As i said before, RIP. It's tainted by a huge misstep. They were looking at short term and not long. The could have went no profit for the entire line, but fixed it right at the jump. Otherwise replace them all, find the answer and sell them to recover the cost. The bean counters were worried about now, they should have been focused on keeping the contract/s going forward. The US is loath to admit they were/are in error, you fix it and make them look good, and you are in the $$$.

 

 

When you make them look bad, over and over, they will shun you and you will never get another contract. It's a HUGE fail on Sigs part. As I said before, RIP 320, and now, SIg for the US military, and LE. 

Edited August 8, 2025 at 06:31 PM by John Q Public

[THE KING]

New information. Interesting 🤔

 

 

[ealcala31]

It looks like there was no issue with the Sig P320 after the tragic Air Force incident that resulted with criminal charges. Now what, Sig took such an extreme pounding because of this, I don't believe there is any room for a reputational recovery. It's hard to analyze the Sig P320. It has an amazing trigger for being an off the shelf handgun, but has had countless amounts of accusations against it. A guy made an interesting point, almost all of the accidental/negligent/uncommanded discharges came from LE. Very few from the non-sworn public. Almost no incidents at local gun clubs where you might find the least experienced new shooters have a negligent discharge, or 2. I am glad that the hammer fired P-Series is what I like the most about Sig handguns.

[ScottFM]

On 8/9/2025 at 6:59 PM, ealcala31 said:

It looks like there was no issue with the Sig P320 after the tragic Air Force incident that resulted with criminal charges.

Incorrect conclusion. All that this charge shows is that there was no issue with the M18 that was sitting on the desk and that the UDs claims elsewhere were unrelated to this tragic incident. It does not refute any of the other claims about UDs

On 8/9/2025 at 6:59 PM, ealcala31 said:

Now what, Sig took such an extreme pounding because of this, I don't believe there is any room for a reputational recovery. It's hard to analyze the Sig P320. It has an amazing trigger for being an off the shelf handgun, but has had countless amounts of accusations against it. A guy made an interesting point, almost all of the accidental/negligent/uncommanded discharges came from LE. Very few from the non-sworn public. Almost no incidents at local gun clubs where you might find the least experienced new shooters have a negligent discharge, or 2. I am glad that the hammer fired P-Series is what I like the most about Sig handguns.

I think SIG is still going to have recvoery issues from the general reputation that the gun is getting. So I agree with you on this. 

 

On 8/9/2025 at 6:59 PM, ealcala31 said:

 A guy made an interesting point, almost all of the accidental/negligent/uncommanded discharges came from LE. Very few from the non-sworn public. Almost no incidents at local gun clubs where you might find the least experienced new shooters have a negligent discharge, or 2. I am glad that the hammer fired P-Series is what I like the most about Sig handguns.

I'd expect that the majority of UDs would come from the group that is carrying it the most and running it through the roughest conditions. 

[ealcala31]

On 8/9/2025 at 8:42 PM, ScottFM said:

Incorrect conclusion. All that this charge shows is that there was no issue with the M18 that was sitting on the desk and that the UDs claims elsewhere were unrelated to this tragic incident. It does not refute any of the other claims about UDs

I think SIG is still going to have recvoery issues from the general reputation that the gun is getting. So I agree with you on this. 

 

I'd expect that the majority of UDs would come from the group that is carrying it the most and running it through the roughest conditions. 

Ok. With all the negligent discharges the Sig P320 has, give me a score count. Sig has one many of these cases as negligent discharges. I'm interested. This tragic Air Force incident seemed like 100 incidents in one, with all the reporting of it.

LE seems to get a pass on this. The P320 is used by a significant amount of non-LE, especially at competition matches and local ranges. Why not a significant amount of local range reports, or local competition matches. USPSA, IDPA, 3Gun, and steel matches is alot of P320s every Saturday & Sunday. The majority of LE never pull their weapons from their holster for an entire year, maybe years. Wasn't the term "Glock leg" a thing years ago. For many years Chicago required a manual safety for every duty firearm. Why? Because of accidental discharges, more like negligent discharges.