SIG P320: The most dangerous handgun

[carry]

 

 

This video shows one way the SIG P320 fires via an uncommanded discharge.

 

[Euler]

On July 27, 2025 at 09:02 PM CDT, carry said:→

...
This video shows one way the SIG P320 fires via an uncommanded discharge.

I watched the first 10 seconds. The guy has a screw holding the trigger back, then he rocks the slide. This is the same thing Jared Yanis (Guns&Gadgets on YouTube) was able to replicate with both a SIG P320 and a Glock 43X, so it's not particular to SIG.

[RandyP]

Once again Ian has an informative unbiased take on the subject -

 

 

[John Q Public]

While I think this design has flaws, if you keep your finger off the bang switch until you commit to shoot, I see no discernible problem. I teach this very fact, I teach all my students to never ever, put their finger on a trigger unless they are going to fire. That being said, people are ignorant, and some cops have the worst gun safety I have ever seen... I want them to have, as close as you can get, to an idiot proof firearm. I had and argument with some sports bodies, I said that pre-cocked/1/2-1/4 whatever is not a double action. The did not agree, I carry a double action, because no trigger or mechanical malf, can **** that trigger. I have so many rounds through 1911/2011 and I know and love them, but to me, it's not suitable on the safety side. Do I think you can carry one safely, yes and no. I know some very good shooters who knocked off the safety going for a fast draw. Also, have been bumped by someone or something, which knocked off the safety. If you choose cocked and locked, then make sure you don't have an ambi safety!  If it gets knocked off. you have a hammer back and no safety, maybe a 1-6lb trigger and easy, under stress. bang. I'm also not preaching to anyone as to what they should carry, what I am saying is there are safer carry options, or conditions, and with the SIg 320, I would advise a hard pass to students and LEOs. KISS.

 

JQ

Edited July 31, 2025 at 04:57 PM by John Q Public

[ScottFM]

 

[ScottFM]

Sig has one of these two problems:

• The Sig P320 has a design flaw and needs to be recalled and fixed

or

• The P320 has a public perception of the flawed weapon

 

In either case Sig has to do something to address and their constant denial of a problem has not worked. The net result either way is that the P320 is fast becoming a pariah of a choice. No department could reasonably choose it as a duty weapon because if something happens the gun itself will be suspect so the choice to have it as a department weapon will be framed as negligent until proven otherwise. There is enough doubt out there now that regardless if there is no intrinsic safety issue, the gun is tainted as unsafe. The death of the P320 is upon Sig. 

 

 

[ScottFM]

You can see the publicity issue with the P320 right in this article: 

 

https://www.nhpr.org/nh-news/2025-07-30/sig-sauer-continues-to-defend-safety-of-p320-following-death-of-airman-on-u-s-military-base

 

"

The Air Force has provided no details about the shooting, but its Global Strike Force unit immediately suspended use of the M18 — the military’s version of the P320 — stripping the weapon from more than 33,000 personnel.

"Weapons safety is a critical responsibility and we continue to prioritize the security of our Airmen and Guardians as they perform their challenging missions,” an Air Force spokesperson said of the suspension of the gun.

Sig Sauer has faced more than 100 lawsuits in recent years over allegations that its best-selling pistol has a design flaw that leaves it susceptible to unintentional firings. Plaintiffs have included members of law enforcement who say they were shot by their own guns, frequently in the leg or foot, as the gun sat in its holster."

[John Q Public]

It reminds me of the old revolvers, not the same, but still. If you smacked the trigger, even un-cocked, it would be forced into the primer and bang. It's why many used to carry over and empty chamber. Since you had to **** the gun to fire, it didn't slow anything down, but gave you 5 instead of 6. 

 

The issue is to make the firearm as safe as possible for the worst driver, nit the best. This firearm clearly does not do that. One of the biggest errors, we can't seem to weed out, is keeping your finger off the trigger, so why would we ever have a firearm which amplifies this issue. RIP 320.

[davel501]

On 7/31/2025 at 12:19 PM, John Q Public said:

It reminds me of the old revolvers, not the same, but still. If you smacked the trigger, even un-cocked, it would be forced into the primer and bang. It's why many used to carry over and empty chamber. Since you had to **** the gun to fire, it didn't slow anything down, but gave you 5 instead of 6. 

 

The issue is to make the firearm as safe as possible for the worst driver, nit the best. This firearm clearly does not do that. One of the biggest errors, we can't seem to weed out, is keeping your finger off the trigger, so why would we ever have a firearm which amplifies this issue. RIP 320.

 

These are going off in the holster. One of the most basic tests of a holster is whether the trigger is completely covered. Given that these things are going off in level 3 or higher holsters, I don't think finger on the trigger is even a factor here. 

[John Q Public]

I looked at all, I could find, before the drop fix, the gun AD. After having discharged with the trigger partially activated. None, to my knowledge have fired without the trigger some trigger prep. As I said, I think they should not be used for safety, but I can find no AD without trigger interaction. If the trigger is not prepped or enraged, any of those slide gymnastics do not result in an AD. As I said, I think this is a choice I would say no.

 

The deal with L3 is that many of them engage the trigger directly, or may engage them as they are drawn, not enough to discharge on most, but with this one yes. The design is flawed, the model is tainted, they should have moved on long ago. Optics, decided its fate. As I said above, I don't think it's a bomb. but it wasn't built well... 

 

Done

 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2025 at 06:42 PM by John Q Public

[carry]

 

[Euler]

On July 31, 2025 at 12:19 PM CDT, John Q Public said:→

...
The issue is to make the firearm as safe as possible for the worst driver, n[o]t the best. ...

SIG tried to make the P320 idiot-proof. As I said before, SIG underestimated the idiocy of some people.

1. It's possible to put a 45acp FCU into a 9mm grip and have a working firearm.

Why would someone do that? Maybe they think it's an inexpensive way to have a 45acp and a 9mm firearm with only one FCU. The problem is that the FCU has a magazine lockout safety that's supposed to require removing the magazine to take the firearm down and preventing magazine insertion if the gun is taken down. A 45acp FCU in a 9mm grip does neither of those things.

A smart person would/should know that and wouldn't do it. Would a stupid person do it, possibly even in spite of knowing he shouldn't?

2. It's possible to have a working firearm with the takedown lockout engaged. Disengaging the takedown lockout requires engaging the slide lock during reassembly.

Why would someone do that? Maybe they're just used to using only an "armorer's grip" to reassemble a firearm. Maybe they think they're "outsmarting" SIG, because SIG wants/requires them to use the slide lock, and they feel good about "defeating" SIG. ("SIG can't tell me what to do.")


I couldn't find a picture of the armorer's grip on a SIG, so here it is on a different brand.

A smart person would use the firearm as intended. A stupid person might be unaware that sear engagement with the lockout engaged is marginal. It should only be an issue if they've done #1 above, because otherwise they shouldn't be able to insert a magazine.

3. Apparently the striker safety can be disengaged by jostling the firearm to dislodge the safety spring. The FBI found this to be true in the Michigan State Police study. It hasn't been verified independently.

#1 allows the firearm to be loaded in a takedown state. (easily repeatable)
#2 allows the firearm to have marginal sear engagement (easily repeatable), possibly releasing randomly.
#3 allows the firearm to fire if #1 and #2 are already true and the sear randomly releases.

A smart person wouldn't do #1, but I don't see a way to stop a stupid person from doing it (and probably thinking they're being super-smart).

SIG could alter the design of the FCU not to require the slide lock to be engaged for #2. SIG tried to make the P320 be idiot-proof, but this feature just makes it more idiot-vulnerable. Again, a smart person shouldn't have a problem, but the FCU needs to be designed with stupid people in mind.

SIG could alter the design of the striker to make the safety spring not dislodge if jostled violently. If it can be verified, even smart people could be subjected to this problem, although they'd probably never know it, because they wouldn't have done #1 and #2.

[davel501]

On 7/31/2025 at 3:14 PM, Euler said:

SIG tried to make the P320 idiot-proof. As I said before, SIG underestimated the idiocy of some people.

1. It's possible to put a 45acp FCU into a 9mm grip and have a working firearm.

Why would someone do that? Maybe they think it's an inexpensive way to have a 45acp and a 9mm firearm with only one FCU. The problem is that the FCU has a magazine lockout safety that's supposed to require removing the magazine to take the firearm down and preventing magazine insertion if the gun is taken down. A 45acp FCU in a 9mm grip does neither of those things.

A smart person would/should know that and wouldn't do it. Would a stupid person do it, possibly even in spite of knowing he shouldn't?

2. It's possible to have a working firearm with the takedown lockout engaged. Disengaging the takedown lockout requires engaging the slide lock during reassembly.

Why would someone do that? Maybe they're just used to using only an "armorer's grip" to reassemble a firearm. Maybe they think they're "outsmarting" SIG, because SIG wants/requires them to use the slide lock, and they feel good about "defeating" SIG. ("SIG can't tell me what to do.")


I couldn't find a picture of the armorer's grip on a SIG, so here it is on a different brand.

A smart person would use the firearm as intended. A stupid person might be unaware that sear engagement with the lockout engaged is marginal. It should only be an issue if they've done #1 above, because otherwise they shouldn't be able to insert a magazine.

3. Apparently the striker safety can be disengaged by jostling the firearm to dislodge the safety spring. The FBI found this to be true in the Michigan State Police study. It hasn't been verified independently.

#1 allows the firearm to be loaded in a takedown state. (easily repeatable)
#2 allows the firearm to have marginal sear engagement (easily repeatable), possibly releasing randomly.
#3 allows the firearm to fire if #1 and #2 are already true and the sear randomly releases.

A smart person wouldn't do #1, but I don't see a way to stop a stupid person from doing it (and probably thinking they're being super-smart).

SIG could alter the design of the FCU not to require the slide lock to be engaged for #2. SIG tried to make the P320 be idiot-proof, but this feature just makes it more idiot-vulnerable. Again, a smart person shouldn't have a problem, but the FCU needs to be designed with stupid people in mind.

SIG could alter the design of the striker to make the safety spring not dislodge if jostled violently. If it can be verified, even smart people could be subjected to this problem, although they'd probably never know it, because they wouldn't have done #1 and #2.

 

Jostled violently? Like running? 

 

The consensus I'm seeing develop is that the slide gets loose on the frame. If the slide gets far enough from the frame it defeats the safeties.

 

Some folks have suggested that sig needs to add a trigger shoe but I have not spent the time studying the design to see how that would help. The consensus though is that if they did, then they'd be admitting the defect with like 18 lawsuits pending and more importantly, it could cause the military to start the whole bidding process over. 

[Euler]

On July 31, 2025 at 01:51 PM CDT, carry said:→

[embedded video]

Kind of a nit, kind of not: Wyoming Gun Project didn't find that malfunction. The FBI did in November 2024. The Wyoming guy is just capitalizing on it for hits.

Also, Guns & Gadgets already demonstrated that the same thing happens with Glocks. It's probably inherent in every striker-fired pistol. It's not a reason to move to a different brand. It's a reason (if anything) to switch to hammer-fired pistols, assuming you think it's a real problem (which I don't).

[Euler]

On July 31, 2025 at 03:27 PM CDT, davel501 said:→

Jostled violently? Like running?

The consensus I'm seeing develop is that the slide gets loose on the frame. If the slide gets far enough from the frame it defeats the safeties.

Some folks have suggested that sig needs to add a trigger shoe but I have not spent the time studying the design to see how that would help. The consensus though is that if they did, then they'd be admitting the defect with like 18 lawsuits pending and more importantly, it could cause the military to start the whole bidding process over.

Jostled violently, like if it's worn by a cop who's running, jumping, rolling around on the ground, and generally doing other things necessary to deal with someone who really needs to be arrested and really doesn't want to be arrested.

The slide issue is noise. If Wyoming guy's video is monetized, he's made probably a few hundred dollars on it by now. (It's probably not monetized. YouTube demonetizes every video with a firearm in it.) In that video (and some others) the safeties are defeated by pulling the trigger. Not to make it too obvious, but people are attempting to demonstrate that the P320 can go off without pulling the trigger by pulling the trigger.

The trigger shoe safety is a drop safety. If the P320 had had them, then the drop safety issue wouldn't have happened 10 years ago. A properly designed trigger shouldn't need one, which SIG demonstrated with the updated triggers, since there aren't any drop-safe issues with them now.

Edited July 31, 2025 at 08:55 PM by Euler

[Tip]

Admittedly I haven’t waded through all the videos, clickbait videos, articles and stories but I have perused a few.

 

I have a simple question:

Can the conditions be created to cause the misfire without pulling or pre-staging the trigger?

[davel501]

On 7/31/2025 at 3:48 PM, Euler said:

Jostled violently, like if it's worn by a cop who's running, jumping, rolling around on the ground, and generally doing other things necessary to deal with someone who really needs to be arrested and really doesn't want to be arrested.

The slide issue is noise. If Wyoming guy's video is monetized, he's made probably a few hundred dollars on it by now. (It's probably not monetized. YouTube demonetizes every video with a firearm in it.) In that video (and some others) the safeties are defeated by pulling the trigger. Not to make it too obvious, but people are attempting to demonstrate that the P320 can go off without pulling the trigger by pulling the trigger.

The trigger shoe safety is a drop safety. If the P320 had had them, then the drop safety issue wouldn't have happened 10 years ago. A properly designed trigger shouldn't need one, which SIG demonstrated with the updated triggers, since there aren't any drop-safe issues with them now.
 

 

The Wyoming guy lost me when he put the screw in the trigger. I don't think anything in the videos I saw with the discharges had trigger movement. I don't have a safariland holster for a P320 to see how the als grabs it either. 

[Euler]

On July 31, 2025 at 05:47 PM CDT, Tip said:→

...
Can the conditions be created to cause the misfire without pulling or pre-staging the trigger?

Maybe. In my post above, I list three conditions, all of which must be met. None of them require touching the trigger. Two of them are easily reproducible and require doing stupid things. The third thing was demonstrated by the FBI last November and could potentially happen to anyone, but has not been verified. I'm not aware of anyone even trying to verify it.

The thing with pulling the trigger and wiggling the slide is (mostly) noise, but people are acutely focused on the noise right now. The only way it's not noise is that it demonstrates that if the sear has marginal engagement (one of the stupid things), it's conceivable that bumping the slide could release the sear, but no one is making that connection, either.

[soundguy]

On 7/31/2025 at 12:47 PM, davel501 said:

 

These are going off in the holster. One of the most basic tests of a holster is whether the trigger is completely covered. Given that these things are going off in level 3 or higher holsters, I don't think finger on the trigger is even a factor here. 

 

I saw a video of one of those "it went off by itself in the holster" incidents. If you looked closely, you could see the finger still in the trigger guard as the shooter was attempting to re-holster his P320 on the firing line. Catching his finger on the holster caused it to press the trigger back for the surprise bang. The shooter swore it was "uncommanded".

 

It is possible it is not an unsafe gun...

 

Cheers,

Tim

[davel501]

On 8/1/2025 at 8:11 AM, soundguy said:

 

I saw a video of one of those "it went off by itself in the holster" incidents. If you looked closely, you could see the finger still in the trigger guard as the shooter was attempting to re-holster his P320 on the firing line. Catching his finger on the holster caused it to press the trigger back for the surprise bang. The shooter swore it was "uncommanded".

 

It is possible it is not an unsafe gun...

 

Cheers,

Tim

 

 

This one is good because you can see there's nothing like a shirt hooked in the holster. Gun is deep in that holster, well covered. 

 

[John Q Public]

I think the best way to say it is there are better choices and go from there. No finger pointing, no fan boys, nor haters. There are much better choices out there for LEOs and carry firearms. 

 

Can I get an Amen? 

 

JQ

[SiliconSorcerer]

On 8/1/2025 at 12:20 PM, John Q Public said:

I think the best way to say it is there are better choices and go from there. No finger pointing, no fan boys, nor haters. There are much better choices out there for LEOs and carry firearms. 

 

Can I get an Amen? 

 

JQ

A  lot of police and military are still carrying them, the FBI conducted a more detailed, repeatable, and comprehensive battery of testing using compatible equipment.

The subsequent testing resulted in zero instances of failures.   Video's often don't tell the whole story. I prefer in hand testing vs watching video's. 

 

[John Q Public]

Great SS carry on with it if you like, as I said, there are many more I feel comfortable with. You do you, I only have instructor/carry skin in the game, and I would not recommend this firearm to my students, nor would I carry it.  I do not understand questions even when crazy manipulations are needed. I don't carry Glocks either, though I trust them much more. There are issues with the 320, there may be issues with other striker fired guns, I don't care. THERE ARE BETTER CHOICES.

 

Any more conversation would be redundant. 

Edited August 1, 2025 at 06:51 PM by John Q Public

[SiliconSorcerer]

On 8/1/2025 at 1:43 PM, John Q Public said:

Great SS carry on with it if you like, as I said, there are many more I feel comfortable with. You do you, I only have instructor/carry skin in the game, and I would not recommend this firearm to my students, nor would I carry it.  I do not understand questions even when crazy manipulations are needed. I don't carry Glocks either, though I trust them much more. There are issues with the 320, there may be issues with other striker fired guns, I don't care. THERE ARE BETTER CHOICES.

 

Any more conversation would be redundant. 

As was that, it's NEVER been proven to fail in "in hand" certified tests, so bash all you like with youtube video's.   I can show you pigs fly too!

[John Q Public]

Any butterflies that make mountains explode... I don't care what you think, certify all you want, there ARE better choices. You are clearly vested in this firearm, and I am not.Carry what you will, this will never be my choice, nor will I recommend it. You don't need to try an change my mind, the same as you, it won't happen. You do you and I will do the same. Please let it go.

 

JQ

[ScottFM]

I've lost trust in the P320 and SIG. I pretty sure I mentioned that I sold my P365 even though it has not had reported failures. I just do not want to take the risk and then have to defend SIG if this were to happen and someone or myself is injured or killed. I do still have my SIG 1911. 

[Euler]

I cannot find this press release on SIG's website. SIG says that the FBI did a followup study to the one for the Michigan State Police, but found nothing wrong. The Michigan State Police and ICE continue to issue P320s to their officers/agents. The initial FBI report that has been widely publicized was a leak. The FBI has not made any official, public claims. SIG urges the FBI to make its studies public.

UPDATE 1: The FBI report was apparently obtained via a FOIA request to the Michigan State Police by a guy who describes himself as a former gunsmith and marketing executive.

UPDATE 2: The text below was posted at P320 Information on July 29.

Shooting News Weekly said:→

P320 Safety Information

Recently, there have been a number of reports and claims regarding the safety of the P320 pistol and its use by the U.S. Military and law enforcement agencies. We understand you may have questions. We want to address your concerns and provide you with full, complete, and accurate information.

SIG SAUER has ALWAYS and will continue to put the safety and security of the U.S. Military, the law enforcement community, our consumers, and the public first. To this end, we want to be sure concerned citizens have access to complete facts.

The P320 pistol is one of the safest, most advanced pistols in the world -meeting and exceeding all industry safety standards. Its design has been thoroughly tested and validated by the U.S. Military and law enforcement agencies at the federal, state and local levels. In addition, the P320 has been rigorously tested, and is currently in use by militaries and law enforcement agencies around the world.

FBI Testing and Report

A recently publicized internal report from the FBI's Ballistic Research Facility (BRF) created some confusion and raised questions about the safety of the P320. The FBI prepared this report for the Michigan State Police after an officer was involved in an accidental discharge. SIG SAUER engineers met with the FBI and Michigan State Police on several occasions to review the report and the incident. Ultimately, the FBI conducted a more detailed, repeatable, and comprehensive battery of testing using compatible equipment. The subsequent testing resulted in zero instances of failures and the Michigan State Police are now confidently issuing officers P320 based pistols. The FBI BRF have yet to make any official claims or statements regarding the safety of the P320 pistol or any of its variants. However, we are urging the FBI BRF and FBI Director Kash Patel to release a full and complete testing and evaluation report on their updated P320 safety testing.

Department of Homeland Security

An internal memo from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS)/ U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) was recently posted online stating the agency was halting its use of the P320. Many online media outlets immediately sought to attribute this to the above referenced FBI BRF report, which is incorrect. DHS has never raised any safety concerns about the P320 and ICE has since extended their existing contract with SIG SAUER another two years. Since DHS has yet to comment publicly correcting their improperly leaked memo, or any statements questioning the safety of the P320, we are now urging ICE to release all information on P320 testing. SIG SAUER is honored to continue aiding ICE in their mission to protect America.

U.S. Air Force M18

There was a recent tragic incident at F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Wyoming which resulted in the death of an Airman. Because the incident involved the discharge of a (P320 based) M18 pistol, the Air Force is actively conducting an evaluation of M18 pistols within the specific Command where the incident happened. This cautionary step is standard procedure. We proactively offered assistance to the U.S. military as they investigate the incident. Contrary to several online reports, (P320 based) M17 and M18 pistols remain on active duty with all branches of the U.S. Military, including the U.S. Air Force, defending freedom around the world. We have absolute confidence in the U.S. Military's ability to conduct a thorough investigation and report their findings. As we learn more information about the investigation, we will continue to provide updated information.

P320 Range and Training Bans

Following several of these inaccurate reports, a number of ranges, training providers, and training facilities made the reactionary decision to ban the P320 and its use in their facilities. We are actively working to provide these individuals with accurate information along with a detailed understanding of the P320 and its safety features. If you are impacted by a P320 range or a training provider ban, we urge you to reach out to SIG CUSTOMER SERVICE: 603-610-3000 Option 1 or send a message here so we can clarify any misinformation and provide the truth.

The P320 CANNOT, under any circumstances, discharge without the trigger first being moved to the rear. This has been verified through exhaustive testing by SIG SAUER engineers, the U.S. Military, several major federal and state law enforcement agencies, and independent laboratories. This video provides a detailed view into all of the various safety features of the P320 and provides a detailed explanation of how the safety system works; for further information on the P320 please visit here.

As with any gun, the P320 will discharge if the trigger is pulled to the rear. Accordingly, SIG SAUER continues to remind its customers, employees, and the public to employ all safe gun-handling practices as spelled out in detail in our product manuals. The SIG SAUER Academy remains a resource to customers, employees, and the public in offering various firearms safety courses.

We respect the public's concern and are actively working to provide as much information as possible. We sincerely thank you for your continued support of SIG SAUER and urge anyone with additional questions or concerns regarding the P320 and/or safe firearms handling to reach out to our customer service team.

Edited August 4, 2025 at 12:47 AM by Euler

[DoYouFeelLucky]

I took my P365, P365XL, and P320 XCarry out to the range after work.  I had a friend that wanted to sight in a rifle, and brought his P320 also.  Note, all my guns mentioned have Wilson Combat grip modules.  None of these guns have the loose, rattling slide that is shown in the videos I watched.  My 365's have tight slide to grip fits, and my P320 has just a slight movement and a very slight front to back rocking on the slide.  We tried really hard (with unloaded guns) to make the gun discharge in the ways shown in the videos, no luck.  On my friends P320, there is more slide movement than on my XCarry, however nothing near what the videos suggest.  We couldn't make it discharge either.  We even got some of the rubber mallets from my shop and gave them good whacks, nothing.  I do have to say that the flat-faced trigger in my XCarry is a completely different trigger than in his stock P320.  I was amazed at the difference.  Both of these P320's should be manufactured after they implemented the "fix".  What does this prove?  Nothing really.  However it is interesting and made me feel better about the P320 that I own.  That said, the slides on my P220 Duty and P220 Match are very tight and no wiggle at all.  YMMV.

[carry]

 

Another view.

 

 

 

[Illinois Sucks]

So, you can change where the trigger breaks by pushing down on the slide.  You still need to pull the trigger.