HB5471 Gets Even Worse For FFLs

[ealcala31]

     Just got audited by ISP and ATF caved big time. ATF now said we are to surrender our 4473s and Boundbooks to ANY LE for "review." That was NEVER the case in the past. Also, I was under the understanding that IL FFLs were allowed to purchase banned items for exempt customers. Recently, ISP updated their FAQs and stated that IL FFLs are prohibited from purchasing banned items to sell to exempt customers. IL FFLs are ONLY allowed to TRANSFER banned firearms or accessories for exempt customers. So, ISP kept us around just to Transfer their wants and needs. They also made it clear in their FAQs that IL FFLs are not exempt. As for my inspection, ISP made it very clear that their new law supersedes federal law. Which partially, they are correct. What that tells me is that IL is going to use their authority very aggressively. I don't think I am going to make it a whole year under these conditions, either the courts will prevail or I am setting up shop 26 miles east. @#$%&*@#$%&*

[Sweeper13]

Thanks for the info. I'm not a FFL, just following along. Sad to see this happening and how they keep pushing there crap.

[Tvandermyde]

are you one of Devore's plaintiffs?

[steveTA84]

Yeah time to sue again. The Gestapo are out of control 

[ealcala31]

On 3/10/2023 at 8:20 AM, Tvandermyde said:

are you one of Devore's plaintiffs?

No. I joined FFL of IL.

[mab22]

Where do we find the FFL FAQ's in the ISP website? Is that open to the public?

 

 

[ealcala31]

On 3/10/2023 at 10:44 AM, mab22 said:

Where do we find the FFL FAQ's in the ISP website? Is that open to the public?

 

 

I think it's on ISP Website for everyone but here's the link 

https://isp.illinois.gov/Home/HB5471Faqs

[Dumak_from_arfcom]

On 3/9/2023 at 9:19 PM, ealcala31 said:

     Just got audited by ISP and ATF caved big time. ATF now said we are to surrender our 4473s and Boundbooks to ANY LE for "review." That was NEVER the case in the past. Also, I was under the understanding that IL FFLs were allowed to purchase banned items for exempt customers. Recently, ISP updated their FAQs and stated that IL FFLs are prohibited from purchasing banned items to sell to exempt customers. IL FFLs are ONLY allowed to TRANSFER banned firearms or accessories for exempt customers. So, ISP kept us around just to Transfer their wants and needs. They also made it clear in their FAQs that IL FFLs are not exempt. As for my inspection, ISP made it very clear that their new law supersedes federal law. Which partially, they are correct. What that tells me is that IL is going to use their authority very aggressively. I don't think I am going to make it a whole year under these conditions, either the courts will prevail or I am setting up shop 26 miles east. @#$%&*@#$%&*

 

4th question down in the ISP FAQ:

Can an FFL maintain an inventory of banned items to sell?  
Yes, but you can only sell to exempt customers. Please refer to section 720 ILCS 5/24-1.9 and 1.10 within the link above.
 

 

 

I'm not an FFL, but my understanding of the law is the same as yours. Remember those emergency rule making powers that the ISP was given in the law?    I think we are seeing them push to their limits.  

My FFL told me they could not sell me a Springfield Prodigy even without the mags. They said law enforcement told them if the gun has banned mags it can only be sold to an exempt person. 

[SiliconSorcerer]

On 3/10/2023 at 11:57 AM, Dumak_from_arfcom said:

 

4th question down in the ISP FAQ:

Can an FFL maintain an inventory of banned items to sell?  
Yes, but you can only sell to exempt customers. Please refer to section 720 ILCS 5/24-1.9 and 1.10 within the link above.
 

 

 

I'm not an FFL, but my understanding of the law is the same as yours. Remember those emergency rule making powers that the ISP was given in the law?    I think we are seeing them push to their limits.  

My FFL told me they could not sell me a Springfield Prodigy even without the mags. They said law enforcement told them if the gun has banned mags it can only be sold to an exempt person. 

 

Other than a revolver I'm not there is a handgun that doesn't have banned mags, you can buy a drum magazine for a 1911 so it's banned? 

 

[ealcala31]

On 3/10/2023 at 11:57 AM, Dumak_from_arfcom said:

 

4th question down in the ISP FAQ:

Can an FFL maintain an inventory of banned items to sell?  
Yes, but you can only sell to exempt customers. Please refer to section 720 ILCS 5/24-1.9 and 1.10 within the link above.
 

 

 

I'm not an FFL, but my understanding of the law is the same as yours. Remember those emergency rule making powers that the ISP was given in the law?    I think we are seeing them push to their limits.  

My FFL told me they could not sell me a Springfield Prodigy even without the mags. They said law enforcement told them if the gun has banned mags it can only be sold to an exempt person. 

So, I understood Q4 as "maintain an inventory," means I can replenish my inventory for exempt customers. ISP said I can "maintain" the inventory I already have and deplete it until it's gone. With no legal way to purchase banned items for future exempt sales, including out of state sales.

[Dumak_from_arfcom]

On 3/10/2023 at 12:10 PM, SiliconSorcerer said:

 

Other than a revolver I'm not there is a handgun that doesn't have banned mags, you can buy a drum magazine for a 1911 so it's banned? 

 

 

 

The FFL told me that law enforcement no longer want them removing the mags and selling the guns.

So... a G17 with 17 round mags in the box = no sale to non-exempt.
A G17 with 10 round mags in the box = okay.  

 

   

[Dumak_from_arfcom]

On 3/10/2023 at 12:20 PM, ealcala31 said:

So, I understood Q4 as "maintain an inventory," means I can replenish my inventory for exempt customers. ISP said I can "maintain" the inventory I already have and deplete it until it's gone. With no legal way to purchase banned items for future exempt sales, including out of state sales.

 

Yep, that is how I would interpret that.  But the ISP gets rule making ability in the law.  

 

So it looks like the ISP is going with the most restrictive interpretation of the law in any cases of ambiguity. 

If the law stands, the FFLs that remain are going to have to go to court and fight over the legal meaning of "maintain".    

 

It is clear, they want the FFLs out of business.  ******* commies gonna commie. 

[Tvandermyde]

On 3/10/2023 at 12:26 PM, Dumak_from_arfcom said:

 

 

The FFL told me that law enforcement no longer want them removing the mags and selling the guns.

So... a G17 with 17 round mags in the box = no sale to non-exempt.
A G17 with 10 round mags in the box = okay.  

 

   

email me, I want to talk to you

 

tvandermyd@aol.com

[steveTA84]

Oh boy..

[Dumak_from_arfcom]

On 3/10/2023 at 12:39 PM, Tvandermyde said:

email me, I want to talk to you

 

tvandermyd@aol.com

 

email sent.   put my forum name in the message subject

[mab22]

Q - Are lower receivers on the banned list?
Yes, receivers designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault weapon are prohibited. Please refer to section 720 ILCS 5/24-1.9(a)(3).
 

This just sounds dumb. 
“to convert a firearm into an assault weapon”

1. I would argue it is a component of a modern rifle. 
2. If I take a lower receiver, for an AR, and place it next to or onto my SW Shield, is it going make sparks and act like a Transformer and produce an actual AR? 

 

 

[Dumak_from_arfcom]

 

Heck if I recall the law correctly, an AR lower is just as bad as spare stock or pistol grip sitting in a box.  

[THE KING]

Sounds like the ISP needs to get slapped down for exceeding their rule making authority like the EPA and ATF did by the courts. 

 

Go get em Todd 👍

[Keith44]

You know, it sure would be a tragedy if the various police agencies around the state of Illinois were unable to purchase replacement/spare parts for their firearms inventory due to the FFLs being unable to order the parts from the manufacturers/distributors due to the fallout from the law…

 

-Keith.

[mab22]

On 3/10/2023 at 2:15 PM, Keith44 said:

You know, it sure would be a tragedy if the various police agencies around the state of Illinois were unable to purchase replacement/spare parts for their firearms inventory due to the FFLs being unable to order the parts from the manufacturers/distributors due to the fallout from the law…

 

-Keith.

Or if the FFL’s just said.
No. 

[davel501]

On 3/10/2023 at 2:54 PM, mab22 said:

Or if the FFL’s just said.
No. 

 

Either way, it's the way it should be. You know there will be one guy that decides to sell to them anyway though.

[ealcala31]

On 3/10/2023 at 2:54 PM, mab22 said:

Or if the FFL’s just said.
No. 

Yeah, that's me. Besides the really cool LEs I have as customers, their good, I will Transfer for them. But for anyone else, absolutely NOT. I concentrate on direct sales, I really don't do Transfers. So, ISP knows there are certain manufacturers, like S&W, who won't ship to LE Dept or Agencies. That's why they made that carve out, you can't sell to us, but you can Transfer for us. HARD NOOO...

[ealcala31]

On 3/10/2023 at 3:05 PM, davel501 said:

 

Either way, it's the way it should be. You know there will be one guy that decides to sell to them anyway though.

That is true for anything.

[Flynn]

On 3/10/2023 at 2:54 PM, mab22 said:

Or if the FFL’s just said.
No. 

 

Even if every FFL said "no" I suspect the state or some crony would simply spin off their own FFL business to supply just the police departments.

[Tvandermyde]

On 3/9/2023 at 9:19 PM, ealcala31 said:

     Just got audited by ISP and ATF caved big time. ATF now said we are to surrender our 4473s and Boundbooks to ANY LE for "review." That was NEVER the case in the past. Also, I was under the understanding that IL FFLs were allowed to purchase banned items for exempt customers. Recently, ISP updated their FAQs and stated that IL FFLs are prohibited from purchasing banned items to sell to exempt customers. IL FFLs are ONLY allowed to TRANSFER banned firearms or accessories for exempt customers. So, ISP kept us around just to Transfer their wants and needs. They also made it clear in their FAQs that IL FFLs are not exempt. As for my inspection, ISP made it very clear that their new law supersedes federal law. Which partially, they are correct. What that tells me is that IL is going to use their authority very aggressively. I don't think I am going to make it a whole year under these conditions, either the courts will prevail or I am setting up shop 26 miles east. @#$%&*@#$%&*

email me lets talk vandermyd@aol.com

[ealcala31]

On 3/10/2023 at 3:52 PM, Flynn said:

 

Even if every FFL said "no" I suspect the state or some crony would simply spin off their own FFL business to supply just the police departments.

Yeah like Gov Pritzker's downtown Chicago FFL.

[mab22]

On 3/10/2023 at 4:57 PM, ealcala31 said:

Yeah like Gov Pritzker's downtown Chicago FFL.

??

[Flynn]

On 3/10/2023 at 6:01 PM, mab22 said:

??

 

JB's cousin

 

Type 01 FFL - PRITZKER MILITARY MUSEUM & LIBRARY, 104 S MICHIGAN AVE SUITES 200, 300, & 400, CHICAGO    IL    60603

[ealcala31]

[mab22]

Can you actually do transfers through them?!