Are TRO citizens considered Exempt?

[ealcala31]

So, as a FFL 01 Dealer HB5471 says I can sell prohibited items to Exempt customers. Why aren't TRO customers considered Exempt customers. From what I've been told, both the FFL Dealer and the customer have to have TROs to conduct business. As a matter of law, is a TRO customer in litigation different in a challenged law than a listed Exempt individual, Hmm...

[Euler]

A restraining order just means the law can't be enforced. It doesn't change the law, like to reclassify a person or business as exempt under the law.

[ealcala31]

If the person under a TRO doesn't have to follow that part of the law, I don't see why a non-TRO FFL Dealer would be breaking the law in selling a prohibited item to someone who temporarily doesn't have to follow that law. I see a TRO person as a defacto Exempt person. Need to find a lawyer who will give me a legal opinion that way...🤔

[Euler]

The law prohibits both buying and selling. The prohibition on buying is restrained (in this example), but the prohibition on selling is not (in this example). So the seller can't sell.

[ealcala31]

I am not prohibited from selling to everyone, there is an exempt group of people that I still can, why wouldn't the TRO group be another group because of the TRO...

[Euler]

On 2/18/2023 at 6:10 PM, ealcala31 said:

I am not prohibited from selling to everyone, there is an exempt group of people that I still can, why wouldn't the TRO group be another group because of the TRO...

 

720 ILCS 5/24 said:

...

1.9. Manufacture, possession, delivery, sale, and purchase of assault weapons, .50 caliber rifles, and .50 caliber cartridges.

...

(b) Except as provided in subsections (c), (d), and (e), on or after the effective date of this amendatory Act of the 102nd General Assembly, it is unlawful for any person within this State to knowingly manufacture, deliver, sell, import, or purchase or cause to be manufactured, delivered, sold, imported, or purchased by another, an assault weapon, assault weapon attachment, .50 caliber rifle, or .50 caliber cartridge.

...

 

Buying and selling are each prohibited, as well as manufacturing, delivering, and importing. A court order does not amend or otherwise change the law. It only prevents its enforcement.

 

Since you are not one of the parties of one of the TROs, the TROs do not apply to you. Therefore you are subject to every word of the whole law; therefore you are prohibited from selling to everyone (including parties to the TRO), unless otherwise already allowed by the law (e.g., to law enforcement).

 

If you want to sell to parties of the TROs, you need your own TRO (or wait for an injunction, which will apply to everyone).

[ealcala31]

If the state/feds can indict a ham sandwich, I can make it work. Unfortunately this law has even pitted Dealer vs Dealer, an 07 Manufacturer can't sell to an 01 Dealer any prohibited items within the state as well as an 01 Dealer can't sell prohibited items to another 01 Dealer within the state. This even includes distributors, since distributors are licensed the same way, there is no special FFL for distributors. But, an out of state distributor/dealer can sell prohibited items to an IL 01 Dealer and we are allowed to sell those items to Exempted groups. IL just did a big F' You to the entire industry...

[mab22]

On 2/18/2023 at 6:16 PM, Euler said:

 

 

Buying and selling are each prohibited, as well as manufacturing, delivering, and importing. A court order does not amend or otherwise change the law. It only prevents its enforcement.

 

Since you are not one of the parties of one of the TROs, the TROs do not apply to you. Therefore you are subject to every word of the whole law; therefore you are prohibited from selling to everyone (including parties to the TRO), unless otherwise already allowed by the law (e.g., to law enforcement).

 

If you want to sell to parties of the TROs, you need your own TRO (or wait for an injunction, which will apply to everyone).

So if I am included in the TRO, I “should” be able to buy that which they have banned, provided the FFL’s attorney does not recommend them to not to sell anything out of fear of some repercussions? 
If I understand, they can’t enforce that law on me or the FFL, until the TRO is removed and the case is decided.

Its not like we can be charged with a crime after the case is decided one way or another.

 

[Euler]

On 2/18/2023 at 11:20 PM, mab22 said:

So if I am included in the TRO, I “should” be able to buy that which they have banned, provided the FFL’s attorney does not recommend them to not to sell anything out of fear of some repercussions? 
If I understand, they can’t enforce that law on me or the FFL, until the TRO is removed and the case is decided.

Its not like we can be charged with a crime after the case is decided one way or another.

 

If you were included in one of the TROs, then you should be able to buy merchandise currently prohibited by the law, provided the in-state vendor is also covered by a TRO (doesn't have to be the same TRO, I believe) or the out-of-state vendor realizes it can sell to you (whichever applies).

 

Presumably at some point there will be a preliminary injunction (before a case is argued) to replace the TROs. The preliminary injunction would itself eventually be replaced with a permanent injunction after the case is decided, assuming things go our way.