powderhead Posted February 14, 2023 at 07:03 PM Share Posted February 14, 2023 at 07:03 PM (edited) Some interesting reading in this article. I hope it hasn't been previously posted. https://www.thecentersquare.com/illinois/federal-judge-in-illinois-gun-ban-cases-orders-state-to-show-each-and-every-item/article_936ac308-abeb-11ed-83a0-e3b567a83f36.html “Because the ban is so all encompassing and uses a great many vague terms that I’m not even sure that exactly what is banned and that’s probably why judge McGlynn ordered the state to do that so that we could find out what exactly we are arguing about,” Edited February 14, 2023 at 07:13 PM by powderhead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
357 Posted February 14, 2023 at 08:54 PM Share Posted February 14, 2023 at 08:54 PM Very good and has common sense and upholds the Constitution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobPistol Posted February 14, 2023 at 09:04 PM Share Posted February 14, 2023 at 09:04 PM I recall a ruling where vague terms are a good candidate for laws to be struck down under the 14th amendment due process clause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilguy Posted February 15, 2023 at 06:27 AM Share Posted February 15, 2023 at 06:27 AM A glimmer of hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnowThyZomB Posted March 3, 2023 at 09:06 PM Share Posted March 3, 2023 at 09:06 PM Last I read, the Macon standalone case was supposed to have a hearing today? Is there anyway to get an update on that before the news reporters write something up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveIL Posted March 3, 2023 at 09:16 PM Share Posted March 3, 2023 at 09:16 PM (edited) On 3/3/2023 at 3:06 PM, KnowThyZomB said: Last I read, the Macon standalone case was supposed to have a hearing today? Is there anyway to get an update on that before the news reporters write something up? I have this, but I don't exactly know what it says. But there are 2 updates from today on it. https://judici.com/courts/cases/case_history.jsp?court=IL058015J&ocl=IL058015J,2023CH3,IL058015JL2023CH3P1 Edited March 3, 2023 at 09:16 PM by DaveIL Add link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upholder Posted March 3, 2023 at 09:19 PM Share Posted March 3, 2023 at 09:19 PM The relevant docket entry appears to be: Quote Court removes file from advisement. Court reviews the Proposed Final Judgment which has been presented to the court as a matter of resolving all claims at the circuit court level, while preserving the parties individual rights to appeal. The Final Judgment is approved as to form by Plaintiffs and Defendants Govenor Pritzker and Attorney General Raoul in Their Official Capacities. Representation that Speaker of the House Welch and Senate President Harmon also approve the Final Judgment as to form and wish to proceed in this manner. Final Judgment entered and on file today's date. The Petition to Intervene is dismissed as there is no other pending matter before the court. CLERK IS DIRECTED TO SEND A COPY OF THIS DOCKET ENTRY AND A COPY OF THE FINAL JUDGMENT TO COUNSEL OF RECORD. So the judge appears to have come to a Final Judgment and the case is ripe for appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upholder Posted March 3, 2023 at 09:41 PM Share Posted March 3, 2023 at 09:41 PM https://www.thecentersquare.com/illinois/article_34c36830-b9f8-11ed-b877-eb8067fc5da5.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderhead Posted March 4, 2023 at 12:34 AM Author Share Posted March 4, 2023 at 12:34 AM As grandma always said, "will wonders never cease." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnowThyZomB Posted March 4, 2023 at 01:30 AM Share Posted March 4, 2023 at 01:30 AM (edited) On 3/3/2023 at 3:19 PM, Upholder said: The relevant docket entry appears to be: So the judge appears to have come to a Final Judgment and the case is ripe for appeal. So good news................? I know some lawyers, but we communicate with sign language Edited March 4, 2023 at 01:31 AM by KnowThyZomB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Destro Posted March 4, 2023 at 01:52 AM Share Posted March 4, 2023 at 01:52 AM The state is in a real catch 22 now. If they don't appeal, we win. If they appeal, they run a huge risk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilguy Posted March 4, 2023 at 11:56 AM Share Posted March 4, 2023 at 11:56 AM Let’s see if anyone here can buy a banned item in a LGS not subject to an original TRO now. I’ll bet most are going at this very carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hap Posted March 4, 2023 at 01:03 PM Share Posted March 4, 2023 at 01:03 PM On 3/3/2023 at 7:52 PM, Capt_Destro said: The state is in a real catch 22 now. If they don't appeal, we win. If they appeal, they run a huge risk The state may see this a little differently. If they lose, they can use the loss to attempt to undermine the legitimacy of the judiciary. Chuck Schumer has already laid the groundwork for extremist attacks on judges. Don’t be surprised if Pritzker follows his lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felixd Posted March 4, 2023 at 03:39 PM Share Posted March 4, 2023 at 03:39 PM It shall be interesting to see what shops have the hutzpah to start selling the formally “banned” items again. We’ll need to remember them for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiliconSorcerer Posted March 4, 2023 at 05:26 PM Share Posted March 4, 2023 at 05:26 PM On 3/3/2023 at 7:52 PM, Capt_Destro said: The state is in a real catch 22 now. If they don't appeal, we win. If they appeal, they run a huge risk The state was seriously b... slapped the last time. I'd let this dog sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt B Posted March 5, 2023 at 02:53 PM Share Posted March 5, 2023 at 02:53 PM This is a state court case, no risk to the state appealing to the Illinois Supreme Court and they have already done so. They probably stand a good chance of prevailing in that court. The risk comes in the federal cases where potential appeals up the 7th to scotus could set precedent binding in other states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiliconSorcerer Posted March 5, 2023 at 04:23 PM Share Posted March 5, 2023 at 04:23 PM On 3/5/2023 at 8:53 AM, Matt B said: This is a state court case, no risk to the state appealing to the Illinois Supreme Court and they have already done so. They probably stand a good chance of prevailing in that court. The risk comes in the federal cases where potential appeals up the 7th to scotus could set precedent binding in other states. AWB may already be resolved by the time we get there, it's farther along in other states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilguy Posted March 6, 2023 at 12:22 AM Share Posted March 6, 2023 at 12:22 AM (edited) “Probably stand a good chance” ”could set precedent” I’ll say If you bet the farm that the Supreme Court will overturn AWBs you’re braver than I am. I bet they are hoping they don’t have to hear the case. Why else kick back down in to the federal circuit swamp to flounder for the duration. We think its obviously unconstitutional. Obviously its not so obvious or else the last highest court would rule it so. Folks have been complaining the FOID is unconstitutional for over 55 years. So far so good on that one. I believe we should not be so certain that Bruen is going to save us in the end. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/vladeck-the-5th-circuits-rahimi-decision-reveals-two-problems-with-bruen/ Any one here willing to bet me a substantial sum to a favorite charity that Roberts and Kavanaugh will over turn AWBs and registration schemes? I fear not. Roberts tried to moderate the abortion decision. They are both wild cards. Edited March 6, 2023 at 12:30 AM by lilguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TargetCollector Posted March 6, 2023 at 06:14 PM Share Posted March 6, 2023 at 06:14 PM On 3/4/2023 at 9:39 AM, Felixd said: It shall be interesting to see what shops have the hutzpah to start selling the formally “banned” items again. We’ll need to remember them for the future. From the discussion in the other thread about this case over in the judicial side, it sounds like the general consensus is that this does not yet do anything to stop enforcement of the law. In particular, some pretty respected and informed folks (such as Todd V.) say they don't see anything that would change the current status quo until more happens. I suggest going through that thread as well, but I'd say this sounds like at best we have a bit more waiting to do on this front and at worst, this could even damage our overall prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felixd Posted March 6, 2023 at 10:07 PM Share Posted March 6, 2023 at 10:07 PM On 3/6/2023 at 12:14 PM, TargetCollector said: From the discussion in the other thread about this case over in the judicial side, it sounds like the general consensus is that this does not yet do anything to stop enforcement of the law. In particular, some pretty respected and informed folks (such as Todd V.) say they don't see anything that would change the current status quo until more happens. I suggest going through that thread as well, but I'd say this sounds like at best we have a bit more waiting to do on this front and at worst, this could even damage our overall prospects. Thanks for the broader perspective. I am not an attorney nor a legal scholar so I operate under a simpler idea about the courts. My misunderstanding of all this stems from the knowledge that if I were convicted of a crime in Lake County I’d still be a convicted criminal in Alexander County even if I appealed my conviction. Knowing that, I have difficulty understanding why state government assumes they are immune to the Macon County court order especially when the state agreed to the ruling. But, this now brings to mind another question. Would any LE organization in Illinois enforce a law that has been lawfully adjudicated and found unconstitutional? Even with the hubris shown so frequently by some agencies the litigation coming from that would seem obvious and avoidable. Thanks for the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TargetCollector Posted March 7, 2023 at 01:54 AM Share Posted March 7, 2023 at 01:54 AM I'm certainly no expert of law, myself, unfortunately, but I'm glad you found the insights I picked-up from the other discussion helpful. I also don't know why this ruling would not have a direct effect on the law, but I am not surprised that it is more difficult and time-consuming than getting a single judge to agree with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnowThyZomB Posted April 12, 2023 at 03:36 PM Share Posted April 12, 2023 at 03:36 PM Anyone have a way to get updates for the case today? play by play, spy microphone, drawings of the event? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawman Posted April 12, 2023 at 04:26 PM Share Posted April 12, 2023 at 04:26 PM According to the Southern District's website: In light of the public health crisis due to the COVID-19 virus and per reasons set forth in Amended Administrative Order #266, public access to hearings is available via teleconference as noted in PACER/CMECF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnowThyZomB Posted April 12, 2023 at 04:58 PM Share Posted April 12, 2023 at 04:58 PM On 4/12/2023 at 11:26 AM, lawman said: According to the Southern District's website: In light of the public health crisis due to the COVID-19 virus and per reasons set forth in Amended Administrative Order #266, public access to hearings is available via teleconference as noted in PACER/CMECF. Thanks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ORytOe0kxk&ab_channel=CourtOfAppeals7thCircuit Might stream here, I'm not positive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springfield shooter Posted April 12, 2023 at 05:46 PM Share Posted April 12, 2023 at 05:46 PM (edited) On 4/12/2023 at 10:36 AM, KnowThyZomB said: Anyone have a way to get updates for the case today? play by play, spy microphone, drawings of the event? Does this help? Courtesy of our own Molly B. Edited April 12, 2023 at 05:46 PM by springfield shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnowThyZomB Posted April 12, 2023 at 06:14 PM Share Posted April 12, 2023 at 06:14 PM On 4/12/2023 at 12:46 PM, springfield shooter said: Does this help? Courtesy of our own Molly B. Awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted April 12, 2023 at 06:17 PM Share Posted April 12, 2023 at 06:17 PM On 4/12/2023 at 12:58 PM, KnowThyZomB said: Thanks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ORytOe0kxk&ab_channel=CourtOfAppeals7thCircuit Might stream here, I'm not positive That's the circuit court channel. The Barnett orals are in district court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted April 17, 2023 at 02:24 PM Share Posted April 17, 2023 at 02:24 PM https://www.thecentersquare.com/illinois/article_fd017f06-dbab-11ed-b48f-2786e27e6c20.html?a?utm_source=thecentersquare.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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