Another Bruen Victory

[Sol-Invictus]

This time for Potheads.

 

https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2023/02/05/district-judge-finds-gun-ban-marijuana-users-unconstitutional/

[mab22]

Covered here.

 

[yurimodin]

On 2/6/2023 at 5:43 AM, Sol-Invictus said:

This time for Potheads.

 

https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2023/02/05/district-judge-finds-gun-ban-marijuana-users-unconstitutional/

I think we are long past the time for federal legalization.....26 states +DC have decriminalized.

[DoYouFeelLucky]

On 2/6/2023 at 5:29 PM, yurimodin said:

I think we are long past the time for federal legalization.....26 states +DC have decriminalized.

There's no good reason for tobacco and alcohol to be legal and cannabis not to be.  And as soon as the politicians have a way to personally enrich themselves and the federal government off of it, it will suddenly be legal.

[Flynn]

On 2/6/2023 at 7:05 PM, DoYouFeelLucky said:

And as soon as the politicians have a way to personally enrich themselves and the federal government off of it, it will suddenly be legal.

 

But, there in lies the problem for them.  The average cigarette smoker is for all intents unable to grow enough tobacco to sustain their habit, it takes two tobacco plants to make 200 cigs (a carton) between the requirement for a warm enviroment and dry time, plus processing that is simply beyond the scope of most smokers being able to do, thus they will pay the government tax.  Same with alcohol, it's not that you can't make enough alcohol to support a habit, but it takes time and patience to get a good product, plus many are scared to do it due to the governments massive propaganda push during prohibition that it will blind you, no doubt if you do it entirely wrong it can blind you but it's not nearly as big of a concern as the government hyped it, but the stigma persist.  Comes the radical of cannabis, all bets are off, anyone that can manage to grow tomatoes can grow it, and grow enough to support a habit,  pretty easily even in a closet inside thier house, it's simply too easy for the consumer to produce and avoid the taxes thus the ability for the governmment to favorably tax is diminished almost entirely.

[DoYouFeelLucky]

On 2/6/2023 at 10:04 PM, Flynn said:

 

But, there in lies the problem for them.  The average cigarette smoker is for all intents unable to grow enough tobacco to sustain their habit, it takes two tobacco plants to make 200 cigs (a carton) between the requirement for a warm enviroment and dry time, plus processing that is simply beyond the scope of most smokers being able to do, thus they will pay the government tax.  Same with alcohol, it's not that you can't make enough alcohol to support a habit, but it takes time and patience to get a good product, plus many are scared to do it due to the governments massive propaganda push during prohibition that it will blind you, no doubt if you do it entirely wrong it can blind you but it's not nearly as big of a concern as the government hyped it, but the stigma persist.  Comes the radical of cannabis, all bets are off, anyone that can manage to grow tomatoes can grow it, and grow enough to support a habit,  pretty easily even in a closet inside thier house, it's simply too easy for the consumer to produce and avoid the taxes thus the ability for the governmment to favorably tax is diminished almost entirely.

If they can ban you from making your own firearm, then they can ban you from growing your own cannabis.  Pajama boy will be back to talk to you about turning in your neighbor who might be growing cannabis.  

[SiliconSorcerer]

On 2/6/2023 at 5:29 PM, yurimodin said:

I think we are long past the time for federal legalization.....26 states +DC have decriminalized.

Not everyone that uses Cannabis is a pothead, for medical purposes it does help, however we simply don't need more (addictive?) drugs available for kids and they certainly are available.

Cannabis is now like fireworks, not that it's illegal in Illinois but it's 4x cheaper off the store shelf in MI so as more states around us legalize it and it gets easier to drive across a border IL will lose even more market share to border states.   The black market which is also 4x cheaper because Illinois is so stupid. 

What's next? Legalized prostitution is my guess after the casinos boom happens, they only challenge is as Flynn stated "the ability for the government to favorably tax" it.

I had a Cannabis license, it helped get me off Fentanyl, I do not have it anymore IF I did need Cannabis store prices are just to radically high with or without it anyhow. 

I now have all the nerves in my spinal cord (back) burnt every year without that I might be shopping. 

[yurimodin]

On 2/7/2023 at 7:28 AM, SiliconSorcerer said:

Not everyone that uses Cannabis is a pothead, for medical purposes it does help, however we simply don't need more (addictive?) drugs available for kids and they certainly are available.

Cannabis is now like fireworks, not that it's illegal in Illinois but it's 4x cheaper off the store shelf in MI so as more states around us legalize it and it gets easier to drive across a border IL will lose even more market share to border states.   The black market which is also 4x cheaper because Illinois is so stupid. 

What's next? Legalized prostitution is my guess after the casinos boom happens, they only challenge is as Flynn stated "the ability for the government to favorably tax" it.

I had a Cannabis license, it helped get me off Fentanyl, I do not have it anymore IF I did need Cannabis store prices are just to radically high with or without it anyhow. 

I now have all the nerves in my spinal cord (back) burnt every year without that I might be shopping. 

I have a med card for the sole reason that in IL I get to have 5 plants and store unlimited surplus in my home. I had back surgery several years ago and after spending well over a year crawling around like an animal on the ground I now have something that works without dealing with trying to get hydrocodone from unwilling doctors(thank you Jeff Sessions). I am a normal functioning, taxpaying member of society saved from disability by a naturally occurring plant. Unfortunately I will fail a 4473 for no good reason other than 100 years of DC being unable to admit they were wrong while they enjoy legal recreational sales from within DC itself.

[Sol-Invictus]

I wish pot users could be honest with themselves. There is always a more effective option for every health concern. Just admit you like to get high. To test this just allow THC pills that do not provide a high. 

[John Q Public]

They wouldn't be THC pills then as THC is what gets you high. They already have such things in CBD form.

[Jeffrey]

On 2/7/2023 at 11:53 AM, Sol-Invictus said:

I wish pot users could be honest with themselves. There is always a more effective option for every health concern. Just admit you like to get high. To test this just allow THC pills that do not provide a high. 

I don’t think it works that way. 

[Flynn]

On 2/7/2023 at 4:15 AM, DoYouFeelLucky said:

If they can ban you from making your own firearm, then they can ban you from growing your own cannabis.

 

You have been banned from growing your own for almost 100 years, one might say it didn't produce the desired results 🤣

[SiliconSorcerer]

On 2/7/2023 at 11:53 AM, Sol-Invictus said:

I wish pot users could be honest with themselves. There is always a more effective option for every health concern. Just admit you like to get high. To test this just allow THC pills that do not provide a high. 

Well... I'm immune to opiates, the only drug that works on me is Fentanyl, Cannabis helped. 

I was in a wheelchair for almost a year, lost a kidney, plastic surgery on my face, broke my shoulders in 3 places, my right wrist in 3 places, have 6 rods, a plate, a dorsal spin stimulator, and had my 23 surgery in January with another scheduled.  My second vertebra is still toast pushing on my spinal cord which I'm avoiding surgery on.  (nasty nasty)   

 

You know that old saying you need to walk a mile in someone's shoes ... 

 

[yurimodin]

On 2/7/2023 at 11:53 AM, Sol-Invictus said:

I wish pot users could be honest with themselves. There is always a more effective option for every health concern. Just admit you like to get high. To test this just allow THC pills that do not provide a high. 

I wish victims of propaganda could admit to themselves they have been lied to their entire lives.

 

With half the states +DC being legal, with all of Canada being legal and all the medical research being done in Israel. The world has now seen that a direct hole to heck has not opened up in the ground with demonic souls escaping to steal your children. That and the schedule 1 classification is absolutely ludicrous placing it at a level more dangerous than methanphetamine.

 

To your other point Marinol is a single chemical isolated in a lab. Cannabis works via entourage effect with the thousands of complex chemicals working in concert together. There is so much more to it than just THC & CBD. I have tried the vape pens which are basically THC isolate and biologically they do almost nothing for me.  In other words it doesn't work.

 

My tolerance is so high that if I want to get messed up its easier to reach for the whiskey instead of the flower jar, but it will give you a nasty hangover vs God's green plant.

 

Now if you just want an excuse to point a judgmental finger at someone I guess you found it. 

[Flynn]

On 2/7/2023 at 11:53 AM, Sol-Invictus said:

I wish pot users could be honest with themselves. There is always a more effective option for every health concern. Just admit you like to get high. To test this just allow THC pills that do not provide a high. 

 

Even though I don't use it, I would fully beg to differ...  I saw a guy go from over 12 different pills that made him resemble a spaced out zombie, into a happy medical marijuana user with only a few pills and 100% less zombie. When he was on the pills you could not even carry on a conversation with the guy, now you can sit down and carry on a conversation for hours, he is night and day different from when he was on the pills.

 

As for getting 'high' in many cases that is the desired effect to relieve the symptom, in other cases not so much, it really depends.

 

And for me personally, as I said I don't do it, but I have really considered it many times for pain relief from a chronic back injury, and for that I would argue that although opioid pain killer might be more effective, they are almost certainly not better for my long term health and I have not found anything besides opioid pain killers that allow me to function when the pain gets real bad.

 

And on to the THC and edibles, edibles do give you a high, it's the THC that is the primary high, smoked or injested you still get the high, although it may be a different kind of high based on the path of intake.  Plus for certain conditions you want some of the other 400+ chemical compounds found in the flower that produce some kind of effect, not necessarity the THC.

 

Sure there will always be those that smoke it just to get high, but to suggest everyone smoking it is just out to get high is really near sighted.

[Flynn]

On 2/7/2023 at 1:38 PM, SiliconSorcerer said:

You know that old saying you need to walk a mile in someone's shoes ... 

 

 

Yep, I was never against marijuana, but once I encountered debilitating pain that left me bed ridden and where opiods were the only thing that sort of took the edge off it so I could manage to get out of bed and to the couch, my entire perspective changed in regards to even opiods.  Like all drugs, they can and will be abused by some, but that doesn't mean that they don't return a quality of life to some as well and for those seeking a return to a better quality of life and I will never ever be judgmental about their choice of drug that returns their their quality of life, marijuana works for many, it simply does.

[defaultdotxbe]

On 2/7/2023 at 11:53 AM, Sol-Invictus said:

I wish pot users could be honest with themselves. There is always a more effective option for every health concern. Just admit you like to get high. To test this just allow THC pills that do not provide a high. 

We already have that, there are plenty of products that are high in CBD (which doesn't get you high) but contain almost no THC (which does get you high)

[JTHunter]

For how many years have we been saying that guns and alcohol don't mix?  Alcohol is a mind and mood altering compound and cannabis has similar effects.  The problem is that there is no test in place yet (that I know of) to test a person's level of inebriation.

[defaultdotxbe]

On 2/7/2023 at 4:02 PM, JTHunter said:

For how many years have we been saying that guns and alcohol don't mix?  Alcohol is a mind and mood altering compound and cannabis has similar effects.  The problem is that there is no test in place yet (that I know of) to test a person's level of inebriation.

Part of that issue is that unlike alcohol a simple % test isn't predictive as to a person's level of inebriation, one person might have a relatively high mg/kg THC level and be perfectly coherent and cognizant, while another could have a fairly low level and be totally out of it.

 

[Flynn]

On 2/7/2023 at 4:02 PM, JTHunter said:

The problem is that there is no test in place yet (that I know of) to test a person's level of inebriation.

 

The same could be said for the 100s upon 100s of scripted prescription drugs on the market that impair you and the many over the counter drugs even as mundane as allergy medication that can impair your driving ability, but that somehow doesn't elevate to the same so called problem.

 

On 2/7/2023 at 4:18 PM, defaultdotxbe said:

Part of that issue is that unlike alcohol a simple % test isn't predictive as to a person's level of inebriation, one person might have a relatively high mg/kg THC level and be perfectly coherent and cognizant, while another could have a fairly low level and be totally out of it.

 

That is where observational field impairment testing comes into play.

[John Q Public]

What Flynn said.

 

They can perform the Chester test; Slowing waving a bag of Cheetos in front of the driver until they break and grab for the bag... 

 

 

 

[defaultdotxbe]

On 2/7/2023 at 4:44 PM, Flynn said:

That is where observational field impairment testing comes into play.

The tests are subjective and can often be deemed inadmissible in court if standardized procedures aren't followed to the letter. That's why even after conducing a field sobriety test cops will still send you for a blood or breath test.

[Flynn]

On 2/7/2023 at 5:02 PM, defaultdotxbe said:

The tests are subjective and can often be deemed inadmissible in court if standardized procedures aren't followed to the letter. That's why even after conducing a field sobriety test cops will still send you for a blood or breath test.

 

Of course they are subjective, although much less so now if the procedures are followed with multiple officers present with bodycams, in the end that observational testing would have to have the same followup blood/urine testing once valid probable cause is established from the observation test.

[yurimodin]

On 2/7/2023 at 3:47 PM, defaultdotxbe said:

We already have that, there are plenty of products that are high in CBD (which doesn't get you high) but contain almost no THC (which does get you high)

That does not work the same way. People have been trying to "sanitize" it like a lab created pharmaceutical. Its really more akin to aloe, coffee, or wine. Yes you can drink Everclear for alcohol but you don't get the beneficial polyphenols like resveratrol that you get from red wine. 

 

I know they fed you a line for decades that its the Devil's gateway drug straight to heroine and selling your body to the reds for cocaine but its not.

 

If anything its not a gateway but an escape hatch. 

[RANDY]

On 2/7/2023 at 4:44 PM, Flynn said:

 

The same could be said for the 100s upon 100s of scripted prescription drugs on the market that impair you and the many over the counter drugs even as mundane as allergy medication that can impair your driving ability, but that somehow doesn't elevate to the same so called problem.

 

 

That is where observational field impairment testing comes into play.

Had a friend that was charged with driving under the influence of prescription medication several years ago.  

[Flynn]

On 2/7/2023 at 5:44 PM, yurimodin said:

I know they fed you a line for decades that its the Devil's gateway drug straight to heroine and selling your body to the reds for cocaine but its not.

 

I have always laughted that the 'gateway' drug narrative, it was always comical to me that this imaginery 'gateway' started with a prohibited drug, and not something like nicotine, caffeine, alchohol, OTC pain killers, misc inhalants or even refined sugar!

[mauserme]

On 2/7/2023 at 4:02 PM, JTHunter said:

For how many years have we been saying that guns and alcohol don't mix?  Alcohol is a mind and mood altering compound and cannabis has similar effects.  The problem is that there is no test in place yet (that I know of) to test a person's level of inebriation.

 

It's true that guns and alcohol/cannabis don't mix well when used simultaneously.  The problem is Federal law doesn't specify that firearm possession is illegal when under the influence of either substance.  It states that a person who has used cannabis at some point, cannot posses a firearm even when they are not currently feeling the effects of that use. 

 

Just like there can be a place in the life of a gun owner for alcohol, so it can be with cannabis.  But not at the range.

 

 

[Flynn]

On 2/7/2023 at 6:12 PM, RANDY said:

Had a friend that was charged with driving under the influence of prescription medication several years ago.  

 

I had a friend that was arrested and charged with a DUI for having low blood sugar/hypoglycemia, he got off the charge, but it was actually a good thing that he wasn't allowed to continue to drive as he was very much impared at that point and needed medical care.

[yurimodin]

On 2/7/2023 at 6:32 PM, mauserme said:

Just like there can be a place in the life of a gun owner for alcohol, so it can be with cannabis.  But not at the range.

absolutely

[defaultdotxbe]

On 2/7/2023 at 5:09 PM, Flynn said:

 

Of course they are subjective, although much less so now if the procedures are followed with multiple officers present with bodycams, in the end that observational testing would have to have the same followup blood/urine testing once valid probable cause is established from the observation test.

I've only had to do sobriety tests twice in my life, but neither time were multiple officers present, I don't think the officer had a body camera either time, and one of them the officer even had me move to the side of his cruiser so I wasn't on the dash cam. No matter what "procedures" are in place officers will find ways to not follow them. 

 

And following up with a blood/urine test simply goes back to the my original point about THC concentrations in the blood not being predictive as to level of inebriation for a particular individual.