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Reported AWB confiscation by ISP. Mr V. update.


mab22

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If ISP didn't go in there like Rambo, all they had to do was send the Dealer's state compliance inspector in for an audit. Request all the state forms under, 5/24-4, you know the form that says your occupation and why you are buying this firearm. That form also has the make, model, serial, caliber, and price on it. Or, ISP can go in with ATF and have ATF pull the 4473. A while back, ISP was told they have no access to the 4473 because it's a federal form. ISP tried that when they 1st implemented the FDLC law and got shot down by ATF...

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On 1/30/2023 at 6:57 AM, sologuy said:

I know this is off-topic, but has anyone seen something like this before?  I've NEVER received a phone message from ISP about any FFL transaction.  These were both after the 1st of this year;

 

 

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I got one too on the 23rd. I've picked up 20 or so guns in the last year but this is the first time I ever got a text like this. It came 13 days after I picked up the last 4 too. 

Screenshot_20230130_162820_Message+.jpg

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On 1/30/2023 at 4:14 PM, ealcala31 said:

If ISP didn't go in there like Rambo, all they had to do was send the Dealer's state compliance inspector in for an audit. Request all the state forms under, 5/24-4, you know the form that says your occupation and why you are buying this firearm. That form also has the make, model, serial, caliber, and price on it. Or, ISP can go in with ATF and have ATF pull the 4473. A while back, ISP was told they have no access to the 4473 because it's a federal form. ISP tried that when they 1st implemented the FDLC law and got shot down by ATF...

Can you provide a link or something that shows the state inspectors don't have access to 4473s? When I was inspected I had to show 4473s, the occupation form, and A&D records. All of which provide the needed information to determine if something falls within the ban. 

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On 1/30/2023 at 6:23 PM, Onytay said:

Can you provide a link or something that shows the state inspectors don't have access to 4473s? When I was inspected I had to show 4473s, the occupation form, and A&D records. All of which provide the needed information to determine if something falls within the ban. 

I have no link. My IOI told me and my IL state inspector said when he came, "I can't inspector your ATF Form, something about the FBI." He never touched my forms only checked on state law issues. I got dinged for having a sign on an 8x11 size when it should be 8x14 and another sign that was 8x11 and should have been 22x35, I believe. 

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On 1/30/2023 at 6:23 PM, Onytay said:

Can you provide a link or something that shows the state inspectors don't have access to 4473s? When I was inspected I had to show 4473s, the occupation form, and A&D records. All of which provide the needed information to determine if something falls within the ban. 

You should call your ATF IOI. 

1. Your A&D is a federal document, they have no access

2. 4473s are federal forms, they have no access.

Email your ATF IOI and I'm sure he'll tell you the same. Use his reply for the next time your state IOI comes...

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There are a few things to unpack with the ISP confiscation:

 

1. When you're on private property - especially your own house: you have the right to tell the police to leave. 

 

2. If the police don't leave, unless they have a warrant - anything they take is inadmissible (Fruit of poisonous tree applies here)

 

3. Never answer the door without a second person recording the entire interaction. I'm not advising people do stupid things, but 

always be collecting evidence - even when you can subpoena police in a case, they will waste your time and cost you 

more in attorneys fees

 

4. Following on #1, the police have NO duty to tell the truth. They are ALWAYS permitted to lie and they do - lie to gain more "probable" 

cause to make an arrest. Never believe anything you are told. Always have someone present with you, in any situation or

start recording with your phone. They will use social engineering tactics, being overly friendly and make it seem that if you just

talk things over - they'll go away - don't ever think that. The police only go away when you say, "warrant" and close the door.

 

I think Kwame is trying to scare gun owners and the community at large. In one of the oral arguments for the assault weapon ban, he actually argued individuals have no right to participate in the legislative process: the three readings requirement shouldn't apply - because you can trust the Illinois legislature apparently. 

 

Right now, Kwame and JB are losing the battle. This confiscation by ISP, makes them look worse. Our Sheriffs are standing tall.

DuPage County Sheriff hasn't caved. We're winning. The anti-violence crowd cannot crack Illinois, because class distinctions are very pronounced and 

widespread in Illinois - especially in Cook County. Outside communities like Highland Park, life is different - even in suburban Cook County. 

 

Kwame knows it's only when, not if, these BS laws get struck down. The anti-violence crowd is pivoting. They're now going to fight over 'sensitive' places,

especially with New York's current fit. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Quote

Loves Park near Rockford? 

 

Only one.   Rockford, Loves Park, Machesney Park all run together, south to north.

 

Quote

My brother in law purchased a ar15 from Leo's guns in loves park on the 13th.

Leo's bought out KAP Guns and moved into that location.  AFAIK, the only real gun shop left in Rockford.

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On 1/30/2023 at 7:55 PM, soundguy said:

 

He would still be in business except for foolishly and blatantly flaunting the law...

Hope he has a good plan for the long game.

 

Cheers,

Tim

Can't be in business for long when the merchandise that is best for self defense and most people want to buy is made illegal. This law was designed to close gun shops and it has nothing to do with safety. Illinois was the state with the most gun sales every year and they found a way to stop it and ignored the will of the people.

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On 1/30/2023 at 8:37 PM, 357 said:

Can't be in business for long when the merchandise that is best for self defense and most people want to buy is made illegal. This law was designed to close gun shops and it has nothing to do with safety. Illinois was the state with the most gun sales every year and they found a way to stop it and ignored the will of the people.

I will question, "...ignored the will of the people." Chicago/Cook County residents voted in these politicians and to be honest, many are not really mad. I have a customer who is interested in the Shield Plus and I told him if they design a magazine higher than 15rds, it would be illegal in the state of IL. He was like, "that's ok, I am happy with the 15rd one." I have even heard a few Chicago gun owners say, "you shouldn't be mad, they're just trying to keep us safe." I almost want to give up sometimes...🤦

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On 1/30/2023 at 9:22 PM, ealcala31 said:

I will question, "...ignored the will of the people." Chicago/Cook County residents voted in these politicians and to be honest, many are not really mad. I have a customer who is interested in the Shield Plus and I told him if they design a magazine higher than 15rds, it would be illegal in the state of IL. He was like, "that's ok, I am happy with the 15rd one." I have even heard a few Chicago gun owners say, "you shouldn't be mad, they're just trying to keep us safe." I almost want to give up sometimes...🤦

They're asleep and didn't think the democrats would do something like this. Look at this site with 20k members, out of 2.5 million gun owners. Might be ok for him for now but this is the first step and all of a sudden one day he's gonna need 7rd magazines like in New York state.

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On 1/30/2023 at 11:06 PM, 357 said:

Look at this site with 20k members, out of 2.5 million gun owners. 

 

The forum backend will have the real numbers, but I'm guessin weekly active users of this site are likely in the 100s, I'm also guessin probably half or more of the 20K are entirely inactive and not even lurking anymore 😥

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On 1/30/2023 at 7:39 PM, John Q Public said:

This means we have no dedicated store/ffl, is either Rockford, or Loves park now. AKA 250K have no FFL gun-store, other boxes. 

 

Seems to be working....

 

Sounds like a business opportunity for people in the RFD area.

FFL transfers, sales, etc. 

Does not mean you have to open a brick and mortar location.

 

 

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On 1/30/2023 at 9:22 PM, ealcala31 said:

I will question, "...ignored the will of the people." Chicago/Cook County residents voted in these politicians and to be honest, many are not really mad. I have a customer who is interested in the Shield Plus and I told him if they design a magazine higher than 15rds, it would be illegal in the state of IL. He was like, "that's ok, I am happy with the 15rd one." I have even heard a few Chicago gun owners say, "you shouldn't be mad, they're just trying to keep us safe." I almost want to give up sometimes...🤦

You do have the option of saying "get out" don't you?

 

 

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On 1/30/2023 at 11:30 PM, Flynn said:

 

The forum backend will have the real numbers, but I'm guessin weekly active users of this site are likely in the 100s, I'm also guessin probably half or more of the 20K are entirely inactive and not even lurking anymore 😥

You're right, probably most of the members saw the writing on the wall and left Illinois for a free state. Unfortunately, only a couple hundred active users.

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On 1/30/2023 at 6:48 PM, ealcala31 said:

You should call your ATF IOI. 

1. Your A&D is a federal document, they have no access

2. 4473s are federal forms, they have no access.

Email your ATF IOI and I'm sure he'll tell you the same. Use his reply for the next time your state IOI comes...

I’m happy to hear that the feds are telling the ISP they can’t touch the 4473s. I brought this up to several FFL in my area last year and told them I was 99% sure that the form was covered by the Privacy Act of 1974. Of course, most gun shops were not interested in becoming a test case for that. 

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On 1/30/2023 at 9:22 PM, ealcala31 said:

I will question, "...ignored the will of the people." Chicago/Cook County residents voted in these politicians and to be honest, many are not really mad. I have a customer who is interested in the Shield Plus and I told him if they design a magazine higher than 15rds, it would be illegal in the state of IL. He was like, "that's ok, I am happy with the 15rd one." I have even heard a few Chicago gun owners say, "you shouldn't be mad, they're just trying to keep us safe." I almost want to give up sometimes...🤦

Brian dead idiots who are useless eaters in terms of being pro-gun. They are not pro-gun, they are leeches 

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On 1/30/2023 at 11:30 PM, Flynn said:

 

The forum backend will have the real numbers, but I'm guessin weekly active users of this site are likely in the 100s, I'm also guessin probably half or more of the 20K are entirely inactive and not even lurking anymore 😥

The average Joe needs lots of pictures, not all words. I know a lot of average Joes.

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On 1/31/2023 at 8:33 AM, steveTA84 said:

Before this week I never got texts from the ISP. Has anyone else? Putting on a tin foil hat, does anyone else get the sense this will be used to harass and intimidate people?

Did you give them your “cell” number? 

We still have an old timey “land line number” on a vonage account. Sign up for some rewards card, land line number. 
ISP requesting phone number, land line. 
What’s your cell number? Nope. 

With few exceptions I use the cell, Costco pharmacy for text refills 👍

 

 

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On 1/30/2023 at 11:46 PM, mab22 said:

You do have the option of saying "get out" don't you?

 

 

You are right. There is an FFL I met who is a former LE, he screens his Transfers. He'll ask where they live and their political affiliation. If they say they are a Democrat or voted for Democrats, he'll blame them for IL gun laws and tell them they voted for anti-gun Liberals and that's why we have bad gun laws. Pretty crazy...

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On 1/31/2023 at 10:18 AM, ealcala31 said:

You are right. There is an FFL I met who is a former LE, he screens his Transfers. He'll ask where they live and their political affiliation. If they say they are a Democrat or voted for Democrats, he'll blame them for IL gun laws and tell them they voted for anti-gun Liberals and that's why we have bad gun laws. Pretty crazy...

Good for him to stick to his beliefs.  Kinda reminds me of the commercial from Florida:

https://www.indy100.com/viral/window-company-advert-support-biden

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On 1/30/2023 at 9:22 PM, ealcala31 said:

I will question, "...ignored the will of the people." Chicago/Cook County residents voted in these politicians and to be honest, many are not really mad. I have a customer who is interested in the Shield Plus and I told him if they design a magazine higher than 15rds, it would be illegal in the state of IL. He was like, "that's ok, I am happy with the 15rd one." I have even heard a few Chicago gun owners say, "you shouldn't be mad, they're just trying to keep us safe." I almost want to give up sometimes...🤦

We have active members here that were okay with the foid cause how else would we know the guy we’re selling to is a good guy. I always said majority of states don’t have that problem and they are doing okay and most gun owners are good people. Come to think about it, they even resided in chicago. 

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On 1/31/2023 at 10:18 AM, ealcala31 said:

You are right. There is an FFL I met who is a former LE, he screens his Transfers. He'll ask where they live and their political affiliation. If they say they are a Democrat or voted for Democrats, he'll blame them for IL gun laws and tell them they voted for anti-gun Liberals and that's why we have bad gun laws. Pretty crazy...

People in the left will never accept that they’re wrong.

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