Reported AWB confiscation by ISP. Mr V. update.

[mab22]

Update from Todd V. 
About  4:26 he switches topics to a “reported confiscation” by the ISP of 2 firearms purchased around Jan 10th, watch the video for the details.
How did they know what was purchased that would make them follow up and eventually pay a visit?

Mod’s feel free to make any necessary revisions to titles, etc.

 

 

[Euler]

Could be this:

 

Reddit

Reddit said:

Long story short. My brother in law purchased a ar15 from Leo's guns in loves park on the 13th. He filled out the 4473 and passed the background check etc. Apparently they were still selling after JB signed the awb. A week goes by and the state police show up to his house and ask to confiscate the gun. They basically said it was purchased illegally and they were not going to come after him but we're going after the FFL who sold it to him. He may or may not get it back and to see if he can go to small claims court with the gun store for the cost of the gun. They gave him a receipt of the confiscation. My brother in law is not super into guns and bought it on a whim cause he had known vaguely about the awb. He panicked and just handed it over. They never showed a warrant and he wasn't sure if the sheriff was there with the state troopers. From what it sounded like to me, they bullied him into handing it over. Looking for a good gun lawyer to speak with and go through more details with cause I'm not sure what happened was legal. I'm also concerned as they took the gun, what's stopping them from deciding to come after him as well? Even though for the most part he purchased the gun legally from an FFL.

 

I'm pretty sure all of this falls under consent. He's not getting it back.

[mab22]

On 1/30/2023 at 12:07 AM, Euler said:

Could be this:

 

Reddit

 

I'm pretty sure all of this falls under consent. He's not getting it back.

That’s a single, the video talks about 2 purchases, in the video “he let them in the house”. 
like you said “consent”, they are screwed. 

 

[Tvandermyde]

I was told there were two guns involved in the case I referenced.

 

If there was a shop selling guns past the 10th, and they got wind of it, my bet is there was not a single sale. So highly possible, they collected a few more guns, but it fts the general area I was told about

[Molly B.]

From the case I heard about,  2 guns were purchased. A rifle and a pistol.

[357]

On 1/30/2023 at 12:07 AM, Euler said:

Could be this:

 

Reddit

 

I'm pretty sure all of this falls under consent. He's not getting it back.

Couldn't they have gotten a warrant?

[mab22]

On 1/30/2023 at 12:26 AM, Tvandermyde said:

I was told there were two guns involved in the case I referenced.

 

If there was a shop selling guns past the 10th, and they got wind of it, my bet is there was not a single sale. So highly possible, they collected a few more guns, but it fts the general area I was told about

Loves Park near Rockford? 

[357]

Double post.

Edited January 30, 2023 at 06:56 AM by 357

[357]

On 1/30/2023 at 12:31 AM, Molly B. said:

From the case I heard about,  2 guns were purchased. A rifle and a pistol.

Any news what they did to the FFL? There should be civil disobedience against the king and his men from all FFL's and the 2.5 million gun owners in Illinois. There's only 1100 of them. Without civil disobedience we are done. What are they gonna do close them all and arrest them all? Like the democrats say, resist!

Edited January 30, 2023 at 07:05 AM by 357

[CPD#127]

My interest was peeked when I heard that in the video. 

If I had to guess the gun shop/FFL had probably sold to more than this one person. Probably more people were visited. But I don’t know. 
Reference a warrant. It’s easier to ask for consent than to get a warrant. I can ask anyone for anything. Within reason I’m not advocating illegal requests or immoral requests. You don’t have to comply. Also with the various counties and States Attorneys vocally saying they will not comply/enforce etc they might have thought just ask and see what happens. I’m sure the ISP would have enough to obtain a search warrant but again asking for compliance is the easier route.

 I’m just speculating as I honestly don’t have any solid information besides what is posted here and on the YT video. I’m not ISP and not in that area of the state. 

[357]

On 1/30/2023 at 1:57 AM, CPD#127 said:

My interest was peeked when I heard that in the video. 

If I had to guess the gun shop/FFL had probably sold to more than this one person. Probably more people were visited. But I don’t know. 
Reference a warrant. It’s easier to ask for consent than to get a warrant. I can ask anyone for anything. Within reason I’m not advocating illegal requests or immoral requests. You don’t have to comply. Also with the various counties and States Attorneys vocally saying they will not comply/enforce etc they might have thought just ask and see what happens. I’m sure the ISP would have enough to obtain a search warrant but again asking for compliance is the easier route.

 I’m just speculating as I honestly don’t have any solid information besides what is posted here and on the YT video. I’m not ISP and not in that area of the state. 

Thank you for explaining it.

[lilguy]

I was told this law was unenforceable, after first being told it’s unconstitutional. I will say it again, they are playing the long game. A few example made and compliance follows.

[SiliconSorcerer]

All laws are voluntary but I think at this point in time I'd give the courts some time and not stand alone. 

[mauserme]

On 1/30/2023 at 5:16 AM, lilguy said:

I was told this law was unenforceable, after first being told it’s unconstitutional. I will say it again, they are playing the long game. A few example made and compliance follows.

 

Yes, when you posted that ATF will be kicking in doors and "shooting you to pieces" to enforce the registration piece of this law, that won't be happening.

 

 

[SiliconSorcerer]

On 1/30/2023 at 6:32 AM, mauserme said:

 

Yes, when you posted that ATF will be kicking in doors and "shooting you to pieces" to enforce the registration piece of this law, that won't be happening.

 

But if you are a middle class person with a wife and kids and a couple of firearms, you really can't take this on yourself and you really shouldn't have specifically broken what is currently the law, constitutional or not.  The while I didn't know I thought it was overturned or I plain didn't know did work (to some extent yes I know) because you bought what you thought was then legally in a shop also goes away if you fight it.   An AR is much less that a lawyer or loosing your FOID.  In 300 days or whatever nonsense this is then you will not be alone.   Something in there about not picking a fight. 

[sologuy]

I know this is off-topic, but has anyone seen something like this before?  I've NEVER received a phone message from ISP about any FFL transaction.  These were both after the 1st of this year;

 

 

[SiliconSorcerer]

I've never gotten a text message but I've gotten a call from the ISP (on EASTER!) and a call from the ATF twice! 

[mab22]

On 1/30/2023 at 1:57 AM, CPD#127 said:

My interest was peeked when I heard that in the video. 

If I had to guess the gun shop/FFL had probably sold to more than this one person. Probably more people were visited. But I don’t know. 
Reference a warrant. It’s easier to ask for consent than to get a warrant. I can ask anyone for anything. Within reason I’m not advocating illegal requests or immoral requests. You don’t have to comply. Also with the various counties and States Attorneys vocally saying they will not comply/enforce etc they might have thought just ask and see what happens. I’m sure the ISP would have enough to obtain a search warrant but again asking for compliance is the easier route.

 I’m just speculating as I honestly don’t have any solid information besides what is posted here and on the YT video. I’m not ISP and not in that area of the state. 

 

One question I have is how would you know, based on a definition of long gun or hand gun, what was purchased to know if it was a verboten item or not?

 

 

[EdDinIL]

On 1/30/2023 at 8:02 AM, mab22 said:

 

One question I have is how would you know, based on a definition of long gun or hand gun, what was purchased to know if it was a verboten item or not?

 

Does an FFL need to report detailed sales logs to the ISP if asked, or can only the ATF request that data?  Somehow that sales info must've landed in the ISP's lap and they followed up on it. 

[Tvandermyde]

On 1/30/2023 at 8:02 AM, mab22 said:

 

One question I have is how would you know, based on a definition of long gun or hand gun, what was purchased to know if it was a verboten item or not?

 

 

how about this -- said store publicly said something about selling guns past the 10th, social media or something. Someone reports that to state police. State Police go to check out said information find it to be true. they then pull all 4473s post 1/10 and comb through the make and models to determine sales in violation of the law and then copy said 4473 and proceed to the houses

[Tvandermyde]

you might want to go read this thread. .  .

https://old.reddit.com/r/ILGuns/comments/10o0vso/looking_for_2a_lawyer/

[mab22]

On 1/30/2023 at 9:47 AM, Tvandermyde said:

you might want to go read this thread. .  .

https://old.reddit.com/r/ILGuns/comments/10o0vso/looking_for_2a_lawyer/

Thanks for posting that.

That rite there is a perfect example of of how "nullification" isn't going to happen. Just because the Sheriff, says It's illegal and they won't enforce it, you still have state and local police that just might.

And as for the Gun shop that was so brazenly stupid, I hope they asked their attorney if what they were doing was a bad idea first place, probably not. They definitely get the legal equivalent of a Darwin award!  🏆

[EdDinIL]

Legal question for the armchair or actual lawyers:  Can the state charge the buyer for breaking the law?  If his home county (Winnebago?) won't prosecute him, what shenanigans can the Governor or AG pull to make an example of him?

 

On 1/30/2023 at 10:32 AM, mab22 said:

 

And as for the Gun shop that was so brazenly stupid, I hope they asked their attorney if what they were doing was a bad idea first place, probably not. They definitely get the legal equivalent of a Darwin award!  🏆

 

Brazenly stupid or stupidly brave?  Any chance the FFL wants to be a test case?  

[mab22]

On 1/30/2023 at 10:40 AM, EdDinIL said:

Legal question for the armchair or actual lawyers:  Can the state charge the buyer for breaking the law?  If his home county (Winnebago?) won't prosecute him, what shenanigans can the Governor or AG pull to make an example of him?

 

 

Brazenly stupid or stupidly brave?  Any chance the FFL wants to be a test case?  

If they told people that they were going to do, become a test case,  and asked for purchasers to participate, (that still wouldn't be recommended), then you could try and make the stupidly brave case. I doubt that is what occurred as the reddit post says they are looking for an attorney, you need to be SKOS (Special Kind Of Stupid) to do that without having an attorney first.

[Jeffrey]

I'm not suggesting it or saying it is wise to do so but, the other side has been ignoring a lot of things they don't agree with for a very long time while getting away with it for the extreme majority.  Now some of their beliefs are becoming more mainstream and they are influencing more to join their cause.  Resist has been their motto since '45.  Personally I am happy to see some pushback in the faces of communists.  Sad they will have to face consequences temporarily.  They have bigger cajones than most posters..myself included.

[yurimodin]

On 1/30/2023 at 11:13 AM, Jeffrey said:

I'm not suggesting it or saying it is wise to do so but, the other side has been ignoring a lot of things they don't agree with for a very long time while getting away with it for the extreme majority.  Now some of their beliefs are becoming more mainstream and they are influencing more to join their cause.  Resist has been their motto since '45.  Personally I am happy to see some pushback in the faces of communists.  Sad they will have to face consequences temporarily.  They have bigger cajones than most posters..myself included.

but that's (D)ifferent.

 

On the other hand how is the buyer to know......I saw alot of stuff happen at shops before the sunset in 2004 that wasn't kosher, but then again neither was the 1994 CLINTON awb.

Edited January 30, 2023 at 06:11 PM by yurimodin

[mousegun6]

I think this is about sending a message to the FFLs that they cannot sell the banned guns. The ISP found out about the banned sale and followed up to collect evidence to prosecute the FFL. We can speculate about how they found out and if the FFL was bragging about it then they win the prize for "stupid" this month.

 

The thing I think we all can learn from this is that the police will use intimidation to make you comply with their "request" for your co-operation.

Don't answer the door if they come knocking and if they encounter you as you are returning home then state your name and address and ignore any questions they ask you.

Do not talk to the police. It never turns out well for you. If they show you are warrant then open the door and don't resist in any way. Follow their instructions. Call your attorney while they are in the house conducting the search. This was advice that I got from a friend who was a city cop for 30 years and a county chief deputy after that. He told me to answer any questions with telling them your name and address and say nothing else until you have an attorney present. That's what he told his family and friends to do so I think it's good advice.

[John Q Public]

I wonder how much they will sue the state for when the law is beat down. They just might have a retirement package. In the short term they are hosed.

Edited January 30, 2023 at 07:13 PM by John Q Public

[IH8IL]

Isn’t the background check done online thru the isp? Could kind of guess how they knew.

[yurimodin]

On 1/30/2023 at 12:46 PM, mousegun6 said:

I think this is about sending a message to the FFLs that they cannot sell the banned guns. The ISP found out about the banned sale and followed up to collect evidence to prosecute the FFL. We can speculate about how they found out and if the FFL was bragging about it then they win the prize for "stupid" this month.

 

The thing I think we all can learn from this is that the police will use intimidation to make you comply with their "request" for your co-operation.

Don't answer the door if they come knocking and if they encounter you as you are returning home then state your name and address and ignore any questions they ask you.

Do not talk to the police. It never turns out well for you. If they show you are warrant then open the door and don't resist in any way. Follow their instructions. Call your attorney while they are in the house conducting the search. This was advice that I got from a friend who was a city cop for 30 years and a county chief deputy after that. He told me to answer any questions with telling them your name and address and say nothing else until you have an attorney present. That's what he told his family and friends to do so I think it's good advice.