update on new FOID Card Review Board

[FredNickl]

My office had a long talk with the Interim Executive Director of the new FOID Card Review Board (FOIDRB) and the Deputy Chief Legal Counsel yesterday to discuss plans in place and lots of possible loose ends. As I know a lot of you are anxious about next steps for pending FOID 'informal' appeals (which are now officially called requests for relief), here are some of my notes:

 

• they will enforce the 60 day deadline to submit a request for relief from when you receive notice of the FOID revocation or denial
• if you blow the 60 day deadline, they can reset the portal and you can reapply, get a new denial, and THEN file a request for relief. In other words, blowing the deadline isn't fatal, just a small inconvenience
• if you submit the request for relief after the 60 day deadline (but before you reset the portal and reapply), they will hold your documents for up to 180 days so you don't have to resubmit
• check out the new portion of ISP's website specific to the FOIDRB. New forms there, and updated checklists
• personal statements no longer need to be notarized, but letters of recommendation will continue to require it
• if the FOIDRB believes they don't have enough information, they will notify an applicant that they can request a hearing. There are no longer any administrative hearings before an Administrative Law Judge - you will be presenting to the FOIDRB
• the FOIDRB finally has a quorum, and ISP is busy working to get equipment out to everyone. There is a meeting coming up. Required to have them quarterly, but assumption is the FOIDRB will want to have them much more frequently (similar to CCLRB)
• revocations / denials for mental health admissions over 5 years are much easier. Although the statute/rules already tell us this, it really helps to hear it from Department personnel: just apply again with a new mental health certification. Should not be any analysis, just a rubber stamp ASSUMING your MH certification is good and god like. If they have questions, they will reach out to the signer to confirm. It is not unknown to see someone signing a MH certification answer all questions "Yes this person is good" and then handwrite something in about how they're not sure a gun is a good idea. Weird, but I've personally seen that. ISP will confirm which opinion the signer meant to convey. If unsure or not crystal clear, they'll deny.
• may have a new firearm disposition record form coming (and new or eliminated affidavit of surrender) after we pointed out at least one issue with that
• FOIDRB likely won't require a form currently called 'CCL Request for Administrative Review' when you're appealing a FOID revocation and you also lost your CCL at the same time. Should be more automatic; once FOID (re)issues, CCL would too
• (quite a few other details that I need to keep confidential as they specifically impact our dozens of pending informal appeals)

 

Hope this helps, as it truly seems that ISP is working hard to make this transition quickly. They know that the statute/rules now have specific timelines on how long the FOIDRB can take to review an application/request for relief. I'm putting this out there as an FYI - I cannot comment on anything specific, but if you have a GENERAL question, I can try to answer it.

 

Edited January 25, 2023 at 02:44 PM by FredNickl

[OrlandInstructor]

Thank you for the information.

[AlexK]

Thank you!

 
Do you know if anything changes to revocations due to the C&PD from over 5 years ago? 

 

I sent in my paperwork and doctor sent in 5 or more years mental health certification  to ISP in October, should I just apply for FOID again? Or continue to wait? I received this email from ISP yesterday, in response to my email asking for any updates that I sent in December.  
 

Thank you!
 

 

 

[FredNickl]

On 1/25/2023 at 9:36 AM, AlexK said:

Thank you!

 
Do you know if anything changes to revocations due to the C&PD from over 5 years ago? 

 

I sent in my paperwork and doctor sent in 5 or more years mental health certification  to ISP in October, should I just apply for FOID again? Or continue to wait? I received this email from ISP yesterday, in response to my email asking for any updates that I sent in December.  
 

Thank you!

Depends. If the revocation notice issued within the past 5 years, it should not matter whether the C&PD report was generated by a law enforcement officer more than 5 years ago - you still need a forensic evaluation. If the revocation notice itself issued to you MORE than 5 years ago, then that is a unique situation and the rule does not specify. I would say that you only need to reapply and include a mental health certification, but you'd want to get an opinion from ISP Legal first.

[AlexK]

On 1/25/2023 at 9:42 AM, FredNickl said:

Depends. If the revocation notice issued within the past 5 years, it should not matter whether the C&PD report was generated by a law enforcement officer more than 5 years ago - you still need a forensic evaluation. If the revocation notice itself issued to you MORE than 5 years ago, then that is a unique situation and the rule does not specify. I would say that you only need to reapply and include a mental health certification, but you'd want to get an opinion from ISP Legal first.

Thank you.

 

Revocation was issued in August after the Highland Park shooting. 
C&PD was report was generated more than 5 years ago. 

[FredNickl]

On 1/25/2023 at 9:45 AM, AlexK said:

Thank you.

 

Revocation was issued in August after the Highland Park shooting. 
C&PD was report was generated more than 5 years ago. 

CORRECTION - I was wrong! I just talked to ISP, and the advice is this: If the C&PD report is from more than 5 years ago, you do NOT need a forensic eval even if they only notified you recently of the revocation. All you need is the 1 page mental health certification. I've got that in writing from ISP now (they had interpreted that different ways over the years but this is official). Therefore, in your particular case it sounds like you submitted the right thing and just need to be patient while the transition your appeal over to the FOIDRB, which should grant the appeal. Only unknown is timing.

[AlexK]

On 1/25/2023 at 12:28 PM, FredNickl said:

CORRECTION - I was wrong! I just talked to ISP, and the advice is this: If the C&PD report is from more than 5 years ago, you do NOT need a forensic eval even if they only notified you recently of the revocation. All you need is the 1 page mental health certification. I've got that in writing from ISP now (they had interpreted that different ways over the years but this is official). Therefore, in your particular case it sounds like you submitted the right thing and just need to be patient while the transition your appeal over to the FOIDRB, which should grant the appeal. Only unknown is timing.

I appreciate your response! 

[John Q Public]

None of this was done for us, it was done to try and help them when it comes time to go to court.

 

JQ

[FredNickl]

On 1/25/2023 at 3:44 PM, John Q Public said:

None of this was done for us, it was done to try and help them when it comes time to go to court.

Maybe. But in the meantime, it certainly helps my clients. The strict deadlines under which the FOIDRB is to issue decisions is a game changer for anyone that's been waiting a long time to learn if their appeal is granted or not.

[John Q Public]

No counselor, you should/must use any and all weapons available to further your clients agenda; As is your duty....

 

I was speaking to the context and timing of these changes which should have been made years ago. It's a ploy to make it look, less burdensome, to the courts, and remove some of the, more obvious, infringements and legal arguments, for constitutionality. 

 

You be you Fred, this was in no way directed at your advocacy,  for your client. 

 

 

JQ

Edited January 25, 2023 at 10:47 PM by John Q Public

[FredNickl]

I didn’t take offense. Just commenting on how it will work moving forward.

Not sure about your follow-up, seems a bit odd in its references to me, but the only criticism I ever receive is that I’m too aggressive, so I’m not ever worried about anyone commenting on my methods. 

[John Q Public]

The problem with the written word is everyone reads in their personal perceptions/feelings, and why the law needs to be so detailed.

 

What I meant to say, in layman terms, was you do what you need to do, and no reason need be given... the only reason I said that was because you said it was good for your client, but that should go without saying, but for us non lawyers.

 

 

I understand and thank you for the info, but there was no intention of slight, or defamation. 

 

JQ

 

 

 

PS There is no such thing as being. "to aggressive, with regards to your avocation for your client.None of this was done for us, it was done to try and help them when we take them to court over constitutionality.

 

I hope we can rest here.....

 

J

 

 

Edited January 25, 2023 at 11:22 PM by John Q Public

[CFREUND01]

On 1/25/2023 at 8:44 AM, FredNickl said:

My office had a long talk with the Interim Executive Director of the new FOID Card Review Board (FOIDRB) and the Deputy Chief Legal Counsel yesterday to discuss plans in place and lots of possible loose ends. As I know a lot of you are anxious about next steps for pending FOID 'informal' appeals (which are now officially called requests for relief), here are some of my notes:

 

• they will enforce the 60 day deadline to submit a request for relief from when you receive notice of the FOID revocation or denial
• if you blow the 60 day deadline, they can reset the portal and you can reapply, get a new denial, and THEN file a request for relief. In other words, blowing the deadline isn't fatal, just a small inconvenience
• if you submit the request for relief after the 60 day deadline (but before you reset the portal and reapply), they will hold your documents for up to 180 days so you don't have to resubmit
• check out the new portion of ISP's website specific to the FOIDRB. New forms there, and updated checklists
• personal statements no longer need to be notarized, but letters of recommendation will continue to require it
• if the FOIDRB believes they don't have enough information, they will notify an applicant that they can request a hearing. There are no longer any administrative hearings before an Administrative Law Judge - you will be presenting to the FOIDRB
• the FOIDRB finally has a quorum, and ISP is busy working to get equipment out to everyone. There is a meeting coming up. Required to have them quarterly, but assumption is the FOIDRB will want to have them much more frequently (similar to CCLRB)
• revocations / denials for mental health admissions over 5 years are much easier. Although the statute/rules already tell us this, it really helps to hear it from Department personnel: just apply again with a new mental health certification. Should not be any analysis, just a rubber stamp ASSUMING your MH certification is good and god like. If they have questions, they will reach out to the signer to confirm. It is not unknown to see someone signing a MH certification answer all questions "Yes this person is good" and then handwrite something in about how they're not sure a gun is a good idea. Weird, but I've personally seen that. ISP will confirm which opinion the signer meant to convey. If unsure or not crystal clear, they'll deny.
• may have a new firearm disposition record form coming (and new or eliminated affidavit of surrender) after we pointed out at least one issue with that
• FOIDRB likely won't require a form currently called 'CCL Request for Administrative Review' when you're appealing a FOID revocation and you also lost your CCL at the same time. Should be more automatic; once FOID (re)issues, CCL would too
• (quite a few other details that I need to keep confidential as they specifically impact our dozens of pending informal appeals)

 

Hope this helps, as it truly seems that ISP is working hard to make this transition quickly. They know that the statute/rules now have specific timelines on how long the FOIDRB can take to review an application/request for relief. I'm putting this out there as an FYI - I cannot comment on anything specific, but if you have a GENERAL question, I can try to answer it.

 

I had a voluntary hospitalization well over 5 yrs ago.  Before my 5 yrs was up I applied for a FOID and was of course denied so it was well over 60 days. September 8, 2022 I saw a Dr. Brenzinger who evaluated me and the ISP received all documents and forms via USPS on September 14th, 2022. Will I have to resubmit. I kind of get what you’re saying, but could you be a bit specific regarding my case? I know your time is valuable, and I am willing to pay for said time in answering my questions. Thank you -Cory F

Edited January 26, 2023 at 12:28 AM by CFREUND01

[FredNickl]

On 1/25/2023 at 6:23 PM, CFREUND01 said:

I had a voluntary hospitalization well over 5 yrs ago.  Before my 5 yrs was up I applied for a FOID and was of course denied so it was well over 60 days. September 8, 2022 I saw a Dr. Brenzinger who evaluated me and the ISP received all documents and forms via USPS on September 14th, 2022. Will I have to resubmit. I kind of get what you’re saying, but could you be a bit specific regarding my case? I know your time is valuable, and I am willing to pay for said time in answering my questions. Thank you -Cory F

I responded privately.