Tvandermyde Posted January 24, 2023 at 10:25 PM Share Posted January 24, 2023 at 10:25 PM FFL- IL, GSL, GOA, Piasa Armory and 3 individuals filed a suit against the state over the gun ban and parts ban attachd in the complaint submitted, I don;t have a file stamp as of yet. The case number is 3: 23-CV-215. COMPLAINT.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikew Posted January 24, 2023 at 10:40 PM Share Posted January 24, 2023 at 10:40 PM a nice touch: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted January 24, 2023 at 11:02 PM Share Posted January 24, 2023 at 11:02 PM Docket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonap Posted January 24, 2023 at 11:20 PM Share Posted January 24, 2023 at 11:20 PM Groovy ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDW Posted January 25, 2023 at 12:11 AM Share Posted January 25, 2023 at 12:11 AM Oops, mods, I added a second thread about this, would you mind deleting it for me. I didn't see Todd's post here. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Roark Posted January 25, 2023 at 06:09 AM Share Posted January 25, 2023 at 06:09 AM (edited) I read and enjoyed the entire initial brief (the complaint). Over the years I've read a lot of these and I find this one particularly well constructed, thorough, and persuasive. The government would have an impossible task of rebutting the complaint directly so they will not. Instead, the government will list each victim at Highland Park by name, age, exact injuries, and assert that but for the type of gun, the tragedy at HP would not have occurred. That, we know is a lie because bolt action rifles with a magazine are darn fast too and those are not yet on the banned list. There is no question though that goal of the criminal legislators is to dramatically extend the list to encompasses and ban as much as possible. Their own words and history prove that. This whole Firearms Ban Act is bananas. It's astounding they can enact such a dung heap of legislation after their 0-4 loss record at scotus and especially after the clear instructions and admonitions from the NYSPRA v Bruen case at scotus. They pole vaulted way past potato this time. Good job with this initial complaint document by the people involved. I'm especially happy Chuck Michel is one of the attorneys. Edited January 25, 2023 at 06:11 AM by Howard Roark Speling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted January 25, 2023 at 07:04 AM Share Posted January 25, 2023 at 07:04 AM On 1/25/2023 at 12:09 AM, Howard Roark said: Instead, the government will list each victim at Highland Park by name, age, exact injuries, and assert that but for the type of gun, the tragedy at HP would not have occurred. And that is now a 100% moot argument that only a entirely corrupt judge would even entertain anymore, Bruen was clear that means-ends is moot and I would hope that even Illinois judges understand it's moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveTA84 Posted January 25, 2023 at 12:57 PM Share Posted January 25, 2023 at 12:57 PM On 1/25/2023 at 12:09 AM, Howard Roark said: I read and enjoyed the entire initial brief (the complaint). Over the years I've read a lot of these and I find this one particularly well constructed, thorough, and persuasive. The government would have an impossible task of rebutting the complaint directly so they will not. Instead, the government will list each victim at Highland Park by name, age, exact injuries, and assert that but for the type of gun, the tragedy at HP would not have occurred. That, we know is a lie because bolt action rifles with a magazine are darn fast too and those are not yet on the banned list. There is no question though that goal of the criminal legislators is to dramatically extend the list to encompasses and ban as much as possible. Their own words and history prove that. This whole Firearms Ban Act is bananas. It's astounding they can enact such a dung heap of legislation after their 0-4 loss record at scotus and especially after the clear instructions and admonitions from the NYSPRA v Bruen case at scotus. They pole vaulted way past potato this time. Good job with this initial complaint document by the people involved. I'm especially happy Chuck Michel is one of the attorneys. This was my favorite part of the complaint. I can’t wait for the AG’s people to show their true colors and attack these facts and statements and letting out their inner racists and sexists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paints-n-cows Posted January 25, 2023 at 03:45 PM Share Posted January 25, 2023 at 03:45 PM Must stronger than the other one I read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tvandermyde Posted January 25, 2023 at 03:49 PM Author Share Posted January 25, 2023 at 03:49 PM didn't have time to post the vid as I was running out to the Stateline rifle Assn, meeting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybermgk Posted January 25, 2023 at 04:01 PM Share Posted January 25, 2023 at 04:01 PM About all I would have added, is to also try to preempt an argument the state is likely to try, i.e. via Heller, that Governments still reatian the ability to ban dangerous AND unusual weapons. Most likely they will try to use dangerous or unusual. Granted, the brief hits ad nausea, that these weapons are anything but unusual. And it does talk wonderfully on how the items that make a semi auto mag weapon an 'assault weapon' do nothing to make them any more dangerous, but in fact, safer. But something along the lines of that firearms are supposed to be dangerous, that is their purpose. And the firearms banned here, are not any more dangerous than most that are not banned, and in many cases a lot less dangerous for home and personal defense (Look at penetration statistics of most common 'hunting', bolt action rifles. I get that you have limited space. And granted, IF the state goes that way, it can be addressed in arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozencpu Posted January 25, 2023 at 04:30 PM Share Posted January 25, 2023 at 04:30 PM So this is the class action suit, that doesn't necessary need plaintiffs listed to be a part of the TRO if its granted. Is there hearing date that has been set yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tvandermyde Posted January 25, 2023 at 04:47 PM Author Share Posted January 25, 2023 at 04:47 PM On 1/25/2023 at 10:01 AM, cybermgk said: About all I would have added, is to also try to preempt an argument the state is likely to try, i.e. via Heller, that Governments still reatian the ability to ban dangerous AND unusual weapons. Most likely they will try to use dangerous or unusual. Granted, the brief hits ad nausea, that these weapons are anything but unusual. And it does talk wonderfully on how the items that make a semi auto mag weapon an 'assault weapon' do nothing to make them any more dangerous, but in fact, safer. But something along the lines of that firearms are supposed to be dangerous, that is their purpose. And the firearms banned here, are not any more dangerous than most that are not banned, and in many cases a lot less dangerous for home and personal defense (Look at penetration statistics of most common 'hunting', bolt action rifles. I get that you have limited space. And granted, IF the state goes that way, it can be addressed in arguments. No this is not a class action suit We will add all the anti-heller arguments in on the motion for the prelim/perm injunction. We wanted to tee this up the right way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upholder Posted January 25, 2023 at 06:40 PM Share Posted January 25, 2023 at 06:40 PM Docket entry #2: Notice of Judge Assignment. Judge J. Phil Gilbert assigned. All future documents must bear case number 3:23-cv-00215-JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybermgk Posted January 25, 2023 at 07:22 PM Share Posted January 25, 2023 at 07:22 PM (edited) On 1/25/2023 at 10:47 AM, Tvandermyde said: No this is not a class action suit We will add all the anti-heller arguments in on the motion for the prelim/perm injunction. We wanted to tee this up the right way. I get the 2nd point, not the first. Not sure how a class action suit or not matters viz a viz what I said. Or were you also responding to @Frozencpu? Edited January 25, 2023 at 07:23 PM by cybermgk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozencpu Posted January 25, 2023 at 08:05 PM Share Posted January 25, 2023 at 08:05 PM On 1/25/2023 at 12:40 PM, Upholder said: Docket entry #2: Notice of Judge Assignment. Judge J. Phil Gilbert assigned. All future documents must bear case number 3:23-cv-00215-JPG Looks like a good supportive 2A judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tvandermyde Posted January 25, 2023 at 08:42 PM Author Share Posted January 25, 2023 at 08:42 PM Cyber, yes I was responding to someone else/ Frozen -- what makes you say pro-2A? And it looks like I need to start a feature on Freedom's Steel -- Capfax karens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumak_from_arfcom Posted January 25, 2023 at 08:45 PM Share Posted January 25, 2023 at 08:45 PM Illinois will follow the california and NY arguments and attempt to bootstrap Bruen and Heller and claim this bill doesn't apply. They'll try to change the language. Our council needs to be ready for those gimmicks and that Illinois will routinely attempt to interest balance. It will be vitally important not to get drawn into an interest balance argument. I don't think they'll make the same mistake as California and cite all those racist laws and regs that were on the books. But if they think they are going to lose, they may introduce them as a hail mary with the same caveats that California used... we know these are racist laws, but just ignore they are racist laws and focus on the regulation, Mr. Judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumak_from_arfcom Posted January 25, 2023 at 08:50 PM Share Posted January 25, 2023 at 08:50 PM On 1/25/2023 at 2:05 PM, Frozencpu said: Looks like a good supportive 2A judge. I see appointed by GHWB, but that isn't a good indicator if the judge is pro 2A or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt B Posted January 25, 2023 at 09:10 PM Share Posted January 25, 2023 at 09:10 PM This was the judge who ruled public housing gun bans are unconstitutional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozencpu Posted January 25, 2023 at 09:20 PM Share Posted January 25, 2023 at 09:20 PM On 1/25/2023 at 3:10 PM, Matt B said: This was the judge who ruled public housing gun bans are unconstitutional. That and I think he also had a couple of gun cases that he ruled in favor of 2A just by searching in google. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tvandermyde Posted January 25, 2023 at 09:58 PM Author Share Posted January 25, 2023 at 09:58 PM what were those other cases? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apex84 Posted January 25, 2023 at 11:40 PM Share Posted January 25, 2023 at 11:40 PM Found one https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/u-s-district-court-some-felons-do-have-second-amendment-rights/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumak_from_arfcom Posted January 26, 2023 at 12:39 AM Share Posted January 26, 2023 at 12:39 AM https://www.courthousenews.com/grandfathered-ownership-of-banned-machine-gun-part-debated-at-seventh-circuit/ Quote U.S. District Judge J. Phil Gilbert tossed Roe’s lawsuit in January for failure to state a claim, essentially finding that there is “no legal way to remedy plaintiff’s inability to sell or legally possess” the auto sear under relevant authorities, prompting Roe's appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tvandermyde Posted January 26, 2023 at 02:41 AM Author Share Posted January 26, 2023 at 02:41 AM I did some looking into him today and am very impressed. Lets see what the state does in trying to consolidate things but keep that hatfield thing quiet for a bit. I'll do a video on it in a few days I think we are going to be just fine when we get in front of this judge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt B Posted January 26, 2023 at 03:19 PM Share Posted January 26, 2023 at 03:19 PM Yeah that was my concern as well, how things could get screwed up as these suits are consolidated under one judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveTA84 Posted January 26, 2023 at 04:43 PM Share Posted January 26, 2023 at 04:43 PM On 1/26/2023 at 9:19 AM, Matt B said: Yeah that was my concern as well, how things could get screwed up as these suits are consolidated under one judge. I predict the state will get its wish, the Obama judge will rule via the two-step process (ignoring Bruen) and then it’s off to the appeals court to sit for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveTA84 Posted January 26, 2023 at 05:15 PM Share Posted January 26, 2023 at 05:15 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paints-n-cows Posted January 26, 2023 at 07:50 PM Share Posted January 26, 2023 at 07:50 PM I understand the brief. But my question is why has no one addressed the lost value of the firearms in possession? By virtue of the language, they just de-valued them all. In essence they said your $30,000 worth of firearms have zero value. You are allowed to keep them but cannot sell them in any instance. Yes, you can transfer them to someone in another state but if they sold that way, then you are in violation of the legislation. They are basically declaring Eminent Domain without providing a method of compensation either from them or another qualified purchaser....and in fact are controlling the possession just as if they had done the same when your real estate property was in their way. Why has this not been addressed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt B Posted January 26, 2023 at 08:30 PM Share Posted January 26, 2023 at 08:30 PM Welp lost Judge Gilbert here too through another recusal. https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/66755832/federal-firearms-licensees-of-illinois-v-pritzker/?filed_after=&filed_before=&entry_gte=&entry_lte=&order_by=desc#entry-16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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