Barnett v. Raoul (3:23-cv-00209) (S.D. Ill. 2023) - NSSF Gun/Mag Ban

[Yas]

On 5/5/2023 at 5:26 PM, MRE said:

Not just took possession, but took possession with the approval of the State when the background check was run. Pritzker and ISP are building an unnecessary tinder box here.

Agree on this point   The State police approved the sale 

[mab22]

On 5/5/2023 at 8:21 PM, Euler said:

 

I think that it depends on how CA7 says it.

Queue the legal Gymnastics.

 

[Dumak_from_arfcom]

On 5/5/2023 at 5:16 PM, steveTA84 said:

This seriously is another lawsuit! How can people that bought and took possession of “banned” items during the injunction have no way to theoretically comply? Some people gonna have to make some very tough decisions with what they’re gonna do

 

On 5/5/2023 at 5:26 PM, MRE said:

Not just took possession, but took possession with the approval of the State when the background check was run. Pritzker and ISP are building an unnecessary tinder box here.

 

That is a 1983 lawsuit waiting to happen. 

 

The ILSP will have to modify the affidavit for weapons purchased during an injunction or those subject to a TRO.   If the state is threatening this for people who purchased during the injunction - then they'll apply it to the DeVore cases.  

 

And it just won't be individuals. The FFLs selling banned guns during the injunction will also be shut down and charged.

 

I suspect it is a scare tactic to ward off people from making purchases during future freedom periods.  My guess is IL doesn't believe the stay on the McGlynn injunction is going to stand.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Tvandermyde]

 

[mab22]

On 5/5/2023 at 11:09 PM, Tvandermyde said:

 

I wonder what position that would put people in the Devore case who made purchases under the Devore TRO? All that stuff would be illegal then as well?

This is getting really interesting.

 

[lilguy]

Oops! 

[Dumak_from_arfcom]

On 5/5/2023 at 11:31 PM, mab22 said:

I wonder what position that would put people in the Devore case who made purchases under the Devore TRO? All that stuff would be illegal then as well?

This is getting really interesting.

 

 

The DeVore cases would likely be in the same position.  If IL is going to say that a banned gun purchased after PICA was signed is illegal on 1/1/24 then it doesn't matter if was done under DeVore or McGlynn.   And the FFLs would most likely be targeted.    

 

While I suspect this is a scare tactic, back in January I put on my tinfoil hat and predicted that Illinois would go full-Stalin and continue to enforce the ban even if PICA was found unconstitutional.  

 

If IL is going to pretend an injunction never happened. Then my prediction becomes more like reasoned postulation. 

 

 

[Sol-Invictus]

Someone had a guy who knew a guy who got an email. There is nothing on the ISP site so.....   what does "completed" or "finalized" even mean in this context.

 

There has been no guidance issued to FFLs and all the ones I have spoken with have been advised by counsel that if the background check came back before 4pm on Thursday the transaction is allowed due to precident set by the state allowing and approving such sales during the TRO and the injuction. It would be a violation of federal law to act otherwise and ex-post facto enforcement. 

 

 

[BeardswithoutOperators]

It sounds like Justice Barrett is getting involved now to hear from Naperville (Defendant) on why an injunction should not be issued:

 

 

[ealcala31]

At this point, I give a special "shouts out" to Judge Benitez in Cali. When the same thing happened to his injunction, in his order, he specifically legalized all purchases made during that period of time and added a few more days to allow shipped products to make it to its final destination. You knew he smelled Cali "blood in the water" and didn't want to let Cali do to its citizens what IL is doing to us. I have to say, every Cuban I have came across in my lifetime, which have not been many, don't every say Communism or Socialism. They will give you a history lesson! When I went to Shot Show in Vegas this year, I had a Cuban as my Uber driver. I told him I was going to Shot Show and he gave me a quick 20 minute history lesson on guns, Socialism, wealth, and how American Politics are becoming stupid. He was a 9yr proud American...

[RECarry]

On 5/6/2023 at 9:37 AM, ealcala31 said:

At this point, I give a special "shouts out" to Judge Benitez in Cali. When the same thing happened to his injunction, in his order, he specifically legalized all purchases made during that period of time and added a few more days to allow shipped products to make it to its final destination. You knew he smelled Cali "blood in the water" and didn't want to let Cali do to its citizens what IL is doing to us. I have to say, every Cuban I have came across in my lifetime, which have not been many, don't every say Communism or Socialism. They will give you a history lesson! When I went to Shot Show in Vegas this year, I had a Cuban as my Uber driver. I told him I was going to Shot Show and he gave me a quick 20 minute history lesson on guns, Socialism, wealth, and how American Politics are becoming stupid. He was a 9yr proud American...

A good friend my age is Cuban. Hs father was part of the resistance. Now he dreads hearing his uninformed family members embrace Democrats and socialism.

[steveTA84]

On 5/5/2023 at 11:09 PM, Tvandermyde said:

 

Even those of us on the DeVore TRO that bought stuff will be in this situation. Whatever. F em. 

[ealcala31]

I guess it's an all or nothing. There is no stopping Progressives right now, there is alot of "heavy hitters" who "invested" to make PICA possible, along with Gov Pritzker's political ambitions. I can't believe they are itching for this case to go to the SC. Politically, SCOTUS does not take this case because they are being pressured by Progressives and they win. Or, they take the case and 2A wins and they use this case as a pretext to impeach SC Justice Thomas (win or lose doesn't matter). It's a win on both ends, Conservative Justices will be scared to take on any high profile cases from that point on...

[steveTA84]

On 5/6/2023 at 11:12 AM, ealcala31 said:

I guess it's an all or nothing. There is no stopping Progressives right now, there is alot of "heavy hitters" who "invested" to make PICA possible, along with Gov Pritzker's political ambitions. I can't believe they are itching for this case to go to the SC. Politically, SCOTUS does not take this case because they are being pressured by Progressives and they win. Or, they take the case and 2A wins and they use this case as a pretext to impeach SC Justice Thomas (win or lose doesn't matter). It's a win on both ends, Conservative Justices will be scared to take on any high profile cases from that point on...

Maybe the “progressives” (this crowd are actual statists who want no rights and absolute authority in the end) will inch us towards the purpose of the 2A sooner rather than later. Seems to be their goal. Guess we’ll see what happens, but damn them all to the inferno for making it get this far 🤷‍♂️

Edited May 6, 2023 at 04:41 PM by steveTA84

[ealcala31]

There is the stay and fight mentality but Dennis Prager and Dan Proft both said their respective states are too far gone, CA for Prager and IL for Proft. I am 99.1% of that mindset, even GOD had to 🔥 it down when places lost hope. I am still going to stay and fight but once I find a location in IN, I'm out...

[springfield shooter]

My two cents:

If the conservative justices didn't back off on the abortion ruling, they won't on the 2A.

 

[yurimodin]

I guess we are all felons now.....act accordingly 

[djmarkla]

On 5/6/2023 at 11:48 AM, ealcala31 said:

There is the stay and fight mentality but Dennis Prager and Dan Proft both said their respective states are too far gone, CA for Prager and IL for Proft. I am 99.1% of that mindset, even GOD had to 🔥 it down when places lost hope. I am still going to stay and fight but once I find a location in IN, I'm out...

Dan Bongino has been saying that about blue states for over a year now. I am stuck because I wont leave my family. Unfortunately they can not or will not see what is coming.

[mab22]

On 5/6/2023 at 10:47 AM, steveTA84 said:

Even those of us on the DeVore TRO that bought stuff will be in this situation. Whatever. F em. 

The lawyers might need to answer this question.

Hypothetically, 

IF a law starts on Jan 1 2023, and a court puts a TRO on it, is it still in effect as of Jan 1 2023 as it makes its way through the court? No?
If it is found to be legal, assuming it took the next year to resolve, so come Feb 2024 judge says it’s a legal law.

That would make it retroactive, or does the clock have to start over?
 

[ealcala31]

Moving to Northwest IN or Porter County, which is where I really want to go, won't put me more than 1hr 15 minutes away from most family members. Unfortunately, the Virus, vaxing, and masks really put a strain on my extended family. We would have at least 3 parties a year with the extended family and we are down to 0. Nobody talks anymore and we would tolerate each others politics, 95% Progressives, but now nobody talks. It's amazing that Progressives have destroyed families and they feel, Mission Accomplished...

[Craigcr2]

On 5/6/2023 at 12:44 PM, mab22 said:

The lawyers might need to answer this question.

Hypothetically, 

IF a law starts on Jan 1 2023, and a court puts a TRO on it, is it still in effect as of Jan 1 2023 as it makes its way through the court? No?
If it is found to be legal, assuming it took the next year to resolve, so come Feb 2024 judge says it’s a legal law.

That would make it retroactive, or does the clock have to start over?
 

The effective date is probably a legislative fact. Whether or not the state could get convictions is questionable, but the process is the punishment even if they fail. 

[mab22]

On 5/2/2023 at 7:21 AM, Tvandermyde said:

 

 

The judge enjoined the whole act. So if this drags out with no stay, the 10/1 date to start registration doesn't matter. Nothing stops the state from working on designing the system, but there is no requirement at this time to register by jan 1 or face a felony

Was the “designing of the system” part of the act that the judge enjoined?

If it was, then they shouldn’t be spending a dime on the designing of something that may not be found constitutional or legal. It wasn’t enjoined “in part” was it, or was it?
 

[Dumak_from_arfcom]

 

 

[DoYouFeelLucky]

Until freedom loving people fight the liberal wackadoodles using the same tactics they use, just keep feeling good losing because you stood your moral ground and the other side didn't fight fair.  You have to fight them on a battlefield they don't own.  Some of the money going to legal battles should be going to internet forensics teams and other investigative research.  Sometimes you have to get right down in the bottom of the swamp and get dirty and fight them on their own terms.

[lilguy]

A LGS near me is still selling everything that is not nailed down. Still under cover of “its not their responsibility to know what laws a buyer is governed by” posted sign. The place was packed with a good # looking at “assault weapons”.

I know FFLs gotta eat and maybe they are covered by a different TRO.

I keep hearing, it’s looking good, we’re moving in the right direction and other encouraging thoughts but my concern is alot of folks are gonna burn if it goes bad for us. An awful lot of good folks here are getting and giving bad legal advice about buying guns and accessories in the middle of a legal firestorm.

[spanishjames]

On 5/6/2023 at 9:27 PM, lilguy said:

A LGS near me is still selling everything that is not nailed down. Still under cover of “its not their responsibility to know what laws a buyer is governed by” posted sign. The place was packed with a good # looking at “assault weapons”.

I know FFLs gotta eat and maybe they are covered by a different TRO.

I keep hearing, it’s looking good, we’re moving in the right direction and other encouraging thoughts but my concern is alot of folks are gonna burn if it goes bad for us. An awful lot of good folks here are getting and giving bad legal advice about buying guns and accessories in the middle of a legal firestorm.

[mab22]

On 5/6/2023 at 9:27 PM, lilguy said:

A LGS near me is still selling everything that is not nailed down. Still under cover of “its not their responsibility to know what laws a buyer is governed by” posted sign. The place was packed with a good # looking at “assault weapons”.

I know FFLs gotta eat and maybe they are covered by a different TRO.

I keep hearing, it’s looking good, we’re moving in the right direction and other encouraging thoughts but my concern is alot of folks are gonna burn if it goes bad for us. An awful lot of good folks here are getting and giving bad legal advice about buying guns and accessories in the middle of a legal firestorm.

I don’t think I actually seen any legal advice being provided in the threads. Can you point to anything specifically?
 

[Tvandermyde]

On 5/6/2023 at 3:27 AM, Sol-Invictus said:

Someone had a guy who knew a guy who got an email. There is nothing on the ISP site so.....   what does "completed" or "finalized" even mean in this context.

 

There has been no guidance issued to FFLs and all the ones I have spoken with have been advised by counsel that if the background check came back before 4pm on Thursday the transaction is allowed due to precident set by the state allowing and approving such sales during the TRO and the injuction. It would be a violation of federal law to act otherwise and ex-post facto enforcement. 

 

 

 

 

Not quite. Greg Bishop asked the state police to comment on a number of questions. they did and gave it to him in an email to which he is now reporting on. Source state police in an email to a known reporter, its verified even if not on their website.

 

 

 

[2A4Cook]

They just make up whatever they want.  That stance is nothing short of outrageous.  I am praying that SCOTUS takes this whole thing up.  Illinois and the 7th Circuit are out of control and need to be set straight.  Especially that egomaniac who thinks that no one tells HIM how to rule on anything.

[MrTriple]

 

Getting back on track here, our next big issue is the question of consolidation. Ideally (at least as far as I can see) it would be best not to consolidate the cases so that they can be sent back to their respective district courts. That way, while the judges in the Northern district can do their own thing, we can move forward on ours with McGlynn and get a far better ruling.

 

But if everything is consolidated, into which case will they consolidate and to which judge will that case be assigned? Is it the lowest numbered case? If so, which case is that? Or is it a free for all?