Discussion With an ISP Trooper

[sirflyguy]

Just had a discussion with an off-duty Illinois state trooper that I know. His "Will Not Comply" hoodie with an AR-15 rifle pic below it made me engage him. In a nutshell: he said that he took an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States of America. He will not break that oath. 

It made my heart warm. 

[Lord_Balkan]

He doesn't have to comply, LEO and former LEO are exempt

[sirflyguy]

On 1/16/2023 at 2:45 PM, Lord_Balkan said:

He doesn't have to comply, LEO and former LEO are exempt

He thought that was all wrong as well. He is completely against the LEO exemption. 

[EdDinIL]

Did you ask him what his fellow ISP officers or his immediate boss thought of it?

[mauserme]

For every sheriff that makes a public statement about non-enforcement, I suspect there are multiple municipal/state/county officers/troopers/deputies that will quietly go about honoring their oath.

 

They are all heroes.

 

 

[sirflyguy]

On 1/16/2023 at 2:56 PM, EdDinIL said:

Did you ask him what his fellow ISP officers or his immediate boss thought of it?

Most are with us, at least in his estimate. 

[AlphaKoncepts aka CGS]

I beleive we are experiencing what our ancestors in the not-so-distant past (1986) experienced. The FOID Act was passed in 1968 and several years ago I had the opportunity to chat with a few old-timers about it. While "we wil not comply" wasn't their chant, they silently didn't comply. Cops silently didn't enforce. And now look at us. 

 

Non-compliance is a short-term strategy. I'm not saying it's un-important, what I am saying is if the laws remain on the books the law shall eventually be enforced. I'd further like to point out that nullification dies with the elected official who proclaimed it. They're free to change their mind at any point in time and not required to make any political statements.  If they are elected out of office, their replacement may have a difference of opinion.  

 

All I am doing is pointing out that the fight isn't over.

[steveTA84]

On 1/16/2023 at 4:02 PM, AlphaKoncepts aka CGS said:

I beleive we are experiencing what our ancestors in the not-so-distant past (1986) experienced. The FOID Act was passed in 1968 and several years ago I had the opportunity to chat with a few old-timers about it. While "we wil not comply" wasn't their chant, they silently didn't comply. Cops silently didn't enforce. And now look at us. 

 

Non-compliance is a short-term strategy. I'm not saying it's un-important, what I am saying is if the laws remain on the books the law shall eventually be enforced. I'd further like to point out that nullification dies with the elected official who proclaimed it. They're free to change their mind at any point in time and not required to make any political statements.  If they are elected out of office, their replacement may have a difference of opinion.  

 

All I am doing is pointing out that the fight isn't over.

Reminder who we can thank (in part) for that....

 

1969

 

1967 right after it passed the senate and went to the house

1968

 

You can thank the ISRA for the FOID in-part, which we all Know (if you don’t know click the link) exists only because of racial Tensions in the 1960’s and the legislators and cronies wanted a way to target armed blacks.  Now take this past statement into consideration with the above:

 

 

I’m not anti-ISRA by the way. They are needed now (they could use a face lift though and work on their outreach). Just showing how after this law passed that they were cocky, yet here we are...

[steveTA84]

^^^
in case this image isn’t showing up above (not on my end)

[mab22]

On 1/16/2023 at 4:55 PM, steveTA84 said:

Reminder who we can thank (in part) for that....

 

1969

 

1967 right after it passed the senate and went to the house

1968

 

You can thank the ISRA for the FOID in-part, which we all Know (if you don’t know click the link) exists only because of racial Tensions in the 1960’s and the legislators and cronies wanted a way to target armed blacks.  Now take this past statement into consideration with the above:

 

 

I’m not anti-ISRA by the way. They are needed now (they could use a face lift though and work on their outreach). Just showing how after this law passed that they were cocky, yet here we are...

 

On 1/16/2023 at 5:13 PM, steveTA84 said:

^^^
in case this image isn’t showing up above (not on my end)

 

Thanks for sharing this, what would really help is if you included the name of the paper and the date. 

I nicely asked ISRA recently about supporting the FOID and you would have thought I called them some names.

I did remind them of the comment that "we are stuck with the FOID",  no comment on that other then they have a federal case against the FOID, didn't provide the name of the case though.

I was going to politely tell them that their marketing / messaging is ____, but I figured I should let it go.

 

 

[steveTA84]

On 1/16/2023 at 5:25 PM, mab22 said:

 

 

Thanks for sharing this, what would really help is if you included the name of the paper and the date. 

I nicely asked ISRA recently about supporting the FOID and you would have thought I called them some names.

I did remind them of the comment that "we are stuck with the FOID",  no comment on that other then they have a federal case against the FOID, didn't provide the name of the case though.

I was going to politely tell them that their marketing / messaging is ____, but I figured I should let it go.

 

 

The Pantagraph, May 23, 1967 page 8
 

Chicago Tribune, February 17, 1968 page 53

The Edwardsville Intelligencer from August 29, 1969 page 4

 

And here, The Decatur Herald. August 17, 1969 page 43

 

[JDW]

Fact is and always has been, there are a few rotten apples who are LEO's. I come from a long line of Chicago Police Officers. Over alot of years starting when I was a just a young kid I had the chance to meet hundreds of these folks over my lifetime. Not a single one of them is someone I wouldn't be proud to call a friend. I think it will always be that way. I've always treated them with respect and dignity. Seeing what they go through pretty much every shift, that's the very least I can do. I've only met a few ISP over all my years. One was perhaps the biggest jerk of all the cops I've met. I think it was a case of he should have never been a cop. The others have been helpful, understanding, and downright professional. My position on LEO's will not change. They do hard work, they're underpaid, and way too disrespected by too many people these days. That's just one opinion. 

[GunCollector]

History repeats itself!  These historical articles are fantastic…and scary. I hope the ISRA is paying attention.
 

Thanks for the effort researching and publishing these.

 

[Sol-Invictus]

I will always give a LEO Courtsey. But respect must be earned, it is never given. The fact that most routinely violate the most basic civil rights of citizens on a daily basis and are taught to lie as part of their regular daily duties makes respect a very big leap. Anyone who lies daily as part of their job .....

[speedbump]

On 1/16/2023 at 4:02 PM, AlphaKoncepts aka CGS said:

I beleive we are experiencing what our ancestors in the not-so-distant past (1986) experienced. The FOID Act was passed in 1968 and several years ago I had the opportunity to chat with a few old-timers about it. While "we wil not comply" wasn't their chant, they silently didn't comply. Cops silently didn't enforce. And now look at us. 

 

Non-compliance is a short-term strategy. I'm not saying it's un-important, what I am saying is if the laws remain on the books the law shall eventually be enforced. I'd further like to point out that nullification dies with the elected official who proclaimed it. They're free to change their mind at any point in time and not required to make any political statements.  If they are elected out of office, their replacement may have a difference of opinion.  

 

All I am doing is pointing out that the fight isn't over.

 

It is an imperfect solution, but as Thomas Jefferson stated:  "...nullification is the rightful remedy" when government at any level goes off the rails.  Illinois is a classic example of how "voting harder" in states with a supermajority of the legislature who are opposed to fundamental rights.  The only other option is compliance - and subjugation.  There is a long tradition of nullification in the USA, best exemplified by northern states refusing to adhere to the Federal Fugitive Slave codes.  Judges and juries in northern states dug in their heels, refused to convict their neighbors for assisting escaped slaves, denied writs returning them to slaveholders, and sent slave patrols packing.  That was "duly enacted law" which was an abomination to fundamental human rights. 

 

Two brief points from subject matter experts:

"One is has not only a legal, but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws." Rev Martin Luther King, Jr.

"An unjust law is itself a species of violence, arrest for its breach is more so."  Ghandi

[mostholycerebus]

Yep, the current LEOs may not comply, but the next gen coming in will see this as The Law of the Land and enforce it to the hilt on our kids and grandkids.  

[steveTA84]

On 1/17/2023 at 9:59 AM, mostholycerebus said:

Yep, the current LEOs may not comply, but the next gen coming in will see this as The Law of the Land and enforce it to the hilt on our kids and grandkids.  

Which is the goal of the antis: destroy the normalcy of gun ownership 

[yurimodin]

On 1/16/2023 at 5:39 PM, JDW said:

Fact is and always has been, there are a few rotten apples who are LEO's. I come from a long line of Chicago Police Officers. Over alot of years starting when I was a just a young kid I had the chance to meet hundreds of these folks over my lifetime. Not a single one of them is someone I wouldn't be proud to call a friend. I think it will always be that way. I've always treated them with respect and dignity. Seeing what they go through pretty much every shift, that's the very least I can do. I've only met a few ISP over all my years. One was perhaps the biggest jerk of all the cops I've met. I think it was a case of he should have never been a cop. The others have been helpful, understanding, and downright professional. My position on LEO's will not change. They do hard work, they're underpaid, and way too disrespected by too many people these days. That's just one opinion. 

I have a relative who is a retired state cop (not IL tho). Biggest scumbag I know, raging alcoholic that drives around drunk as h*ll all the time and when he does get pulled over he waives his old badge around like a get out of life free card. Before he retired he passed out piss drunk while driving home one night and wrecked his car......all the other cops just covered for him and wrote it up that he just "fell asleep". 

[Jeffrey]

The cop that will be out to arrest for this is the same one that doesn't have an issue shutting down an 8 year old's lemonade stand because of "laws"

[JDW]

@yurimodinAs I stated there are a few rotten apples, like your relative who give all cops a bad name. The code of silence is fast becoming a thing of the past. There are hundreds of YT vids showing LEO's being arrested for DUI all over the country. Don't tell me your relative is typical of policing, fact is he's the rare exception, not the rule. I hope he gets the help he needs. Alcoholism is a disease, and if he wants help it's readily available for the price of a phone call. 

[citrix_guy]

The LEO exemptions drive me insane.

 

I mean, think about it. EVERY BILL seems to not only allow LEOs to keep the "banned" guns but also allow PRIOR LEO to keep their weapons... 

 

The whole PRIOR LEO exemption is often sold as "well they enforced the laws before and may have more of a need to defend themselves from criminals they interacted with WHILE they were LEOs."

 

But really the PRIOR LEO exemption is really about buying off the union and cops. Cops would think different if they KNEW that "Hey, in 3 years I retire and will have to give up all my 17 rd mags and my AR mags and get rid of my rifles..."  But, by exempting them, these politicians KNOW that they are buying off the cops. They know they will get police support because "hey it doesn't impact me" 

 

Want these laws to start getting real oppo from police? DO NOT EXEMPT LEOs. Pick up your weapons at the station armory as you go on duty. And NO TAKE HOME WEAPONS that do not comply with the law...   We will never get this, but that would fix this problem as cops would be on interviews and in the legislature fighting against it also. Instead the average soccer mom sees badges pushing these laws and go "oh, well crime is bad, we should support this"

 

[yurimodin]

On 1/17/2023 at 11:59 AM, citrix_guy said:

The LEO exemptions drive me insane.

 

I mean, think about it. EVERY BILL seems to not only allow LEOs to keep the "banned" guns but also allow PRIOR LEO to keep their weapons... 

 

The whole PRIOR LEO exemption is often sold as "well they enforced the laws before and may have more of a need to defend themselves from criminals they interacted with WHILE they were LEOs."

 

But really the PRIOR LEO exemption is really about buying off the union and cops. Cops would think different if they KNEW that "Hey, in 3 years I retire and will have to give up all my 17 rd mags and my AR mags and get rid of my rifles..."  But, by exempting them, these politicians KNOW that they are buying off the cops. They know they will get police support because "hey it doesn't impact me" 

 

Want these laws to start getting real oppo from police? DO NOT EXEMPT LEOs. Pick up your weapons at the station armory as you go on duty. And NO TAKE HOME WEAPONS that do not comply with the law...   We will never get this, but that would fix this problem as cops would be on interviews and in the legislature fighting against it also. Instead the average soccer mom sees badges pushing these laws and go "oh, well crime is bad, we should support this"

 

Separate but equal

[yurimodin]

On 1/17/2023 at 11:52 AM, JDW said:

@yurimodinAs I stated there are a few rotten apples, like your relative who give all cops a bad name. The code of silence is fast becoming a thing of the past. There are hundreds of YT vids showing LEO's being arrested for DUI all over the country. Don't tell me your relative is typical of policing, fact is he's the rare exception, not the rule. I hope he gets the help he needs. Alcoholism is a disease, and if he wants help it's readily available for the price of a phone call. 

I hope you are right and I am not trying to lump them all together but ppl should keep in mind that in every encounter with LEO's it may be one of those bad apples. So be smart out there folks.

[RECarry]

How do we combat Democrats who constantly spread fear that police are rogue bullies and white supremacists?

 

The left's message is not "prune a few bad apples", it's become "defund all police" and worse messaging than that. There needs to be some unification along pro-2A lines if we're to combat Democrats using every crisis to cement their power.

[sirflyguy]

On 1/17/2023 at 12:29 PM, RECarry said:

How do we combat Democrats who constantly spread fear that police are rogue bullies and white supremacists?

 

The left's message is not "prune a few bad apples", it's become "defund all police" and worse messaging than that. There needs to be some unification along pro-2A lines if we're to combat Democrats using every crisis to cement their power.

They are actually often quite schizophrenic about it. "Cops are bad" and "de-fund the police" is, for most of the anti crowd, right there with "only the police and government should have guns" or "I don't need a gun, I will just call the police." Makes no sense at all. 

[yurimodin]

On 1/17/2023 at 12:29 PM, RECarry said:

How do we combat Democrats who constantly spread fear that police are rogue bullies and white supremacists?

 

The left's message is not "prune a few bad apples", it's become "defund all police" and worse messaging than that. There needs to be some unification along pro-2A lines if we're to combat Democrats using every crisis to cement their power.

I say go ahead and defund them, the only thing holding back all the hillbillies from dealing with Klantifa whenever they burn a city to the ground is all the covid lockdown enforcing cops.

[CPD#127]

Some cops, deputies, and or troopers are complete ********. Same could be said about teachers, bankers, or dentists. The code of silence is something they put in movies. In reality it doesn’t happen as much as people think it does. Has it happened and does it still happen some places sometimes? Yes it does. 
I don’t like the exemption for LE. I can guarantee you that I was not called during the debates or before the Governor signed this into law asking for my opinion. 
It’s all about division. 

 

No cop wants to deal with this BS. 

[lilguy]

Anyone betting their life on the belief 

that LE will not shoot you to pieces if ordered to do so is sleep walking through the present. 

Our hope is based on courts riding to the rescue. If they don’t, plenty of folks who carry gun for a living will

eventually make examples of a few of us.

I remember a time when the police would kick in a door, shoot everyone dead and then yell don’t anyone move, this is a raid.

The fact that many sheriff’s will not enforce this law does not mean they will save your a** if other agencies are charging through your front door.

Time is on their side if the courts don’t 

act. We’re at a tipping point.

[mousegun6]

On 1/17/2023 at 5:40 PM, lilguy said:

 We’re at a tipping point.

Yes we are and I think the Sheriffs and their combined statements are tipping things in our favor.

[lilguy]

Hi hope so. we’ve been pleasantly surprised and then horribly disappointed before. Our legislature is a dangerously monolithic organization. Our courts can be all over the place, I'll remain skeptical and keep writing checks until we get there.🤞