AWB Litigation

[Tvandermyde]

I said I would speak on this in a new post, so here it is. 

 

It looks like there will be at least 3 suits going forward.. 

 

I am working with dealers through FFL-IL, Aurora Sportsmen's Club, GSL and some others. We have a specific approach hiring local counsel and are using the Second Amendment Law Center/Michel & Associates. they are the guys that won the Duncan case, have Rhode (cal ammo checks) and beat back the fees shifting from Newsom. They are old hats at this stuff. 

 

I suspect SAF & ISRA will file something.

 

I also believe that NSSF will file and NRA may join them

 

Valinda has been assisting us with some requests and doing a fine job of it. The named groups above FFL, ASC, GSL we here IFOR is in as well chose to band together to ensure we had the type of quality representation that we thought this needs. 2. there are still trust issues with ISRA. I have worked with their lobbyist to review bills and provide commentary about things and coordinate testimony. I like Ed and enjoy working with him and am happy to help him out in this fight. 

 

But many still have issues with their organizational leadership among other things. 3. these groups wanted a plan that looks 3, 4 or even 5th dimensional in how we not only win this case but move the ball forward in a number of areas. Not to just issue a press release and beat our chests that we are doing something. And lastly they wanted to ensure that there was direct input and it wasn't being left to chance with someone else. 

 

NSSF has largely ignored Illinois and chosen to hire the guy that sold out gun dealers not that long ago. We want nothing to do with him and are concerned that any info we provide will make it back to the authors of this law. 

 

So for that SALC has a donation page where you can earmark donations for Illinois they are a 501c3, ASC has a donation page and will be setting up a 501c3  and then there is FFL-IL which has a donation page. links to all are below. 

 

My last conversation with Valinda was IC was looking to share what they had collected between a couple of groups. That is their decision, and we are greatful for any contributions or financial help. This stuff is expensive. Looking at $75,000 just in retainers to get started and it goes up from there. I won't dive into the details of our ideas and strategies just yet, but know we are not playing checkers here

 

Second Amendment Law Center (SALC)

https://secure.2alc.org/contribute

 

Federal Firearms Licensees of Illinois  (FFL-IL)

https://fflil.org/donate-new/

 

Aurora Sportsmen’s Club

https://aurorasc.wufoo.com/forms/m1aqqf7i1cz9u8t

[TargetCollector]

Thank you Todd!  This is a great start to things, and I look forward to hearing more as the effort takes shape.

[cybermgk]

Any reach out to GOA and FPC?

[djmarkla]

Thank you, Todd and Valinda!

[steveTA84]

Here’s some nice documents, courtesy of the state of California, for the historical laws they are using to attempt to defend their mag/gun bans in court. They are racist and redundant, but IL will Likely use them too. So, easy way to get ahead and prepare. In short, this is all they have, and it’s hilarious to see them use this to attempt to uphold their laws under Bruen

 

https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/17rj3GnZWT5h2gNgUUR2OI5M1CeDvlb4w?usp=share_link
 

https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/17Uvq_JV87QtQfqiFJSvQY-NhGTcj9eZO?usp=share_link

[steveTA84]

Also, glad to see that amends appear to have been made between folks. Good stuff

[AKS-74U]

Please bring all of it down!

 

Bring down the AWB, bring down FOID, bring down gun dealer licensing, bring down red flag laws. 

[steveTA84]

Lawsuit 1

[mab22]

On 1/12/2023 at 11:24 AM, steveTA84 said:

Here’s some nice documents, courtesy of the state of California, for the historical laws they are using to attempt to defend their mag/gun bans in court. They are racist and redundant, but IL will Likely use them too. So, easy way to get ahead and prepare. In short, this is all they have, and it’s hilarious to see them use this to attempt to uphold their laws under Bruen

 

https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/17rj3GnZWT5h2gNgUUR2OI5M1CeDvlb4w?usp=share_link
 

https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/17Uvq_JV87QtQfqiFJSvQY-NhGTcj9eZO?usp=share_link

I think Illinois also borrowed stuff from New York as well.

 

[Longrange454]

On 1/12/2023 at 9:40 AM, Tvandermyde said:

I said I would speak on this in a new post, so here it is. 

 

It looks like there will be at least 3 suits going forward.. 

 

I am working with dealers through FFL-IL, Aurora Sportsmen's Club, GSL and some others. We have a specific approach hiring local counsel and are using the Second Amendment Law Center/Michel & Associates. they are the guys that won the Duncan case, have Rhode (cal ammo checks) and beat back the fees shifting from Newsom. They are old hats at this stuff. 

 

I suspect SAF & ISRA will file something.

 

I also believe that NSSF will file and NRA may join them

 

Valinda has been assisting us with some requests and doing a fine job of it. The named groups above FFL, ASC, GSL we here IFOR is in as well chose to band together to ensure we had the type of quality representation that we thought this needs. 2. there are still trust issues with ISRA. I have worked with their lobbyist to review bills and provide commentary about things and coordinate testimony. I like Ed and enjoy working with him and am happy to help him out in this fight. 

 

But many still have issues with their organizational leadership among other things. 3. these groups wanted a plan that looks 3, 4 or even 5th dimensional in how we not only win this case but move the ball forward in a number of areas. Not to just issue a press release and beat our chests that we are doing something. And lastly they wanted to ensure that there was direct input and it wasn't being left to chance with someone else. 

 

NSSF has largely ignored Illinois and chosen to hire the guy that sold out gun dealers not that long ago. We want nothing to do with him and are concerned that any info we provide will make it back to the authors of this law. 

 

So for that SALC has a donation page where you can earmark donations for Illinois they are a 501c3, ASC has a donation page and will be setting up a 501c3  and then there is FFL-IL which has a donation page. links to all are below. 

 

My last conversation with Valinda was IC was looking to share what they had collected between a couple of groups. That is their decision, and we are greatful for any contributions or financial help. This stuff is expensive. Looking at $75,000 just in retainers to get started and it goes up from there. I won't dive into the details of our ideas and strategies just yet, but know we are not playing checkers here

 

Second Amendment Law Center (SALC)

https://secure.2alc.org/contribute

 

Federal Firearms Licensees of Illinois  (FFL-IL)

https://fflil.org/donate-new/

 

Aurora Sportsmen’s Club

https://aurorasc.wufoo.com/forms/m1aqqf7i1cz9u8t

 

On 1/12/2023 at 9:40 AM, Tvandermyde said:

I said I would speak on this in a new post, so here it is. 

 

It looks like there will be at least 3 suits going forward.. 

 

I am working with dealers through FFL-IL, Aurora Sportsmen's Club, GSL and some others. We have a specific approach hiring local counsel and are using the Second Amendment Law Center/Michel & Associates. they are the guys that won the Duncan case, have Rhode (cal ammo checks) and beat back the fees shifting from Newsom. They are old hats at this stuff. 

 

I suspect SAF & ISRA will file something.

 

I also believe that NSSF will file and NRA may join them

 

Valinda has been assisting us with some requests and doing a fine job of it. The named groups above FFL, ASC, GSL we here IFOR is in as well chose to band together to ensure we had the type of quality representation that we thought this needs. 2. there are still trust issues with ISRA. I have worked with their lobbyist to review bills and provide commentary about things and coordinate testimony. I like Ed and enjoy working with him and am happy to help him out in this fight. 

 

But many still have issues with their organizational leadership among other things. 3. these groups wanted a plan that looks 3, 4 or even 5th dimensional in how we not only win this case but move the ball forward in a number of areas. Not to just issue a press release and beat our chests that we are doing something. And lastly they wanted to ensure that there was direct input and it wasn't being left to chance with someone else. 

 

NSSF has largely ignored Illinois and chosen to hire the guy that sold out gun dealers not that long ago. We want nothing to do with him and are concerned that any info we provide will make it back to the authors of this law. 

 

So for that SALC has a donation page where you can earmark donations for Illinois they are a 501c3, ASC has a donation page and will be setting up a 501c3  and then there is FFL-IL which has a donation page. links to all are below. 

 

My last conversation with Valinda was IC was looking to share what they had collected between a couple of groups. That is their decision, and we are greatful for any contributions or financial help. This stuff is expensive. Looking at $75,000 just in retainers to get started and it goes up from there. I won't dive into the details of our ideas and strategies just yet, but know we are not playing checkers here

 

Second Amendment Law Center (SALC)

https://secure.2alc.org/contribute

 

Federal Firearms Licensees of Illinois  (FFL-IL)

https://fflil.org/donate-new/

 

Aurora Sportsmen’s Club

https://aurorasc.wufoo.com/forms/m1aqqf7i1cz9u8t

So if NSSF turn coated. Why are they even in concideration.

[357]

On 1/12/2023 at 12:34 PM, mab22 said:

I think Illinois also borrowed stuff from New York as well.

 

All written by Bloomberg's organizations and they copy paste from each other and is a coordinated attack to deprive us of our Constitutional rights in many states. Same as the Chicago gun registration and "assault" weapons ban from 2010.

[357]

On 1/12/2023 at 12:44 PM, Longrange454 said:

 

So if NSSF turn coated. Why are they even in concideration.

What did NSSF do?

[Tvandermyde]

On 1/12/2023 at 12:44 PM, Longrange454 said:

 

So if NSSF turn coated. Why are they even in consideration.

 

 

Not considering NSSF. I just laid out for people to see how things are going. Looks like FPC, SAF and ISRA and banding together.

 

NSSF hired Jay Keller. Google him and you can see why we don't want to get anywhere near that.

[burningspear]

TV,

Smack them hard. Heller, Bruen, and even Miller are on your side. Get on your horse and ride. Communities throughout Illinois will benefit from your focused efforts.

[CplHunter]

On 1/12/2023 at 1:26 PM, Tvandermyde said:

NSSF hired Jay Keller. Google him and you can see why we don't want to get anywhere near that.

 

You all may remember this story: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/springfield-armory-rock-river-arms-trade-opposition-to-illinois-ffl-licensing-scheme-for-carve-out/

[mab22]

On 1/12/2023 at 1:53 PM, CplHunter said:

 

You all may remember this story: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/springfield-armory-rock-river-arms-trade-opposition-to-illinois-ffl-licensing-scheme-for-carve-out/

 

I recall seeing the prices on those firearms tank, and their section at the LGS got smaller and smaller. I don't think they could give them away.

[Craigcr2]

[starwatcher]

Any idea how long it'll take for the lawyers to gear up and request a TRO?

[Craigcr2]

On 1/12/2023 at 2:25 PM, starwatcher said:

Any idea how long it'll take for the lawyers to gear up and request a TRO?

It really depends on the judge. A TRO is can be granted an ex parte motion and can be issued very quickly after it is requested. In practice, the judge has the discretion to request additional briefing or hear arguments.  

[mab22]

On 1/12/2023 at 9:40 AM, Tvandermyde said:

 2. there are still trust issues with ISRA.

 

 

 

I kinda don't trust them and won't send any money or re-join until I know what they stand for.

Just received an email that they are looking for plaintiffs and they are challenging the following.

To ME it appears that they are okay with the FOID still, and I'm not quite sure what they are going against, is it just the law that was passed or only certain parts of it?

Either way they should be the ones explaining it IMO.

From the email -

 

To further these legal challenges, ISRA is seeking potential Plaintiffs to challenge the following restrictions:

 

1. the assault weapon ban/registration requirement, which gives owners until Jan. 1 to register serial numbers with the Illinois State Police;

 

2. the large capacity magazine ban;

 

3. the FOID card prohibition for 18–20-year-olds.

 

ISRA remains at the forefront of fighting for Illinoisans' 2A rights, including working with the top legal minds across the Country practicing in this area.

 

[Dumak_from_arfcom]

I do not find it coincidence that the CC act and AWB have been intermingled together with the FOID act.   I think it was done on purpose and that purpose is to make it harder for a judge (that probably knows nothing about firearms) to dissect.  With each of those laws intermingled together the State of IL is going to argue that vacating one will result in to much chaos in the other laws because they all work in accordance with the FOID and they'll argue vice versa.   

 

Our council is going to need to be familiar with all 3 laws in order to educate a judge so that the judge doesn't default to believing the State's argument that the sky will fall if something is repealed and put forth a ruling based on an interest balancing approach.

  

 

[John Q Public]

This needs to be a coordinated attack...  There is so much in this piece of legislative feces. Brief size is limited, so you can't throw a net over everything. We need one group to take on 1-2 another 3-4 and none of them duplicating the others, but we need people that know what they are doing to trust them with this highly critical task. 

 

I feel for the FFLs more than anything here, but l/we shouldn't rush to act without proper strategy and preparation. 

 

Remember the old bull and the young bull. Let us take our time and walk down and screw them all.

 

This not directed at Todd, because I know he is already on the page, but others who are freaking out screaming how long how long??? Go ahead and freak, take a some deep breaths, get out your checkbook and help us walk down and do them all. 

 

JQ

Edited January 12, 2023 at 09:29 PM by John Q Public

[JNG3]

On 1/12/2023 at 3:27 PM, John Q Public said:

This needs to be a coordinated attack...  There is so much in this piece of legislative feces. Brief size is limited, so you can't throw a net over everything. We need one group to take on 1-2 another 3-4 and none of them duplicating the others, but we need people that know what they are doing to trust them with this highly critical task. 

 

I feel for the FFLs more than anything here, but l/we shouldn't rush to act without proper strategy and preparation. 

 

Remember the old bull and the young bull. Let us take our time and walk down and screw them all.

 

This not directed at Todd, because I know he is already on the page, but others who are freaking out screaming how long how long??? Go ahead and freak, take a some deep breaths, get out your checkbook and help us walk down and do them all. 

 

JQ

I agree 100%.

[Upholder]

On 1/12/2023 at 2:57 PM, mab22 said:

3. the FOID card prohibition for 18–20-year-olds.

 

This restriction was in HB5855, but removed when it became SB2226 and was not re-inserted into HB5471 which is what eventually became the public act.

 

I question their abilities if they can't even ask for the right plaintiffs.

[mab22]

On 1/12/2023 at 4:23 PM, Upholder said:

 

This restriction was in HB5855, but removed when it became SB2226 and was not re-inserted into HB5471 which is what eventually became the public act.

 

I question their abilities if they can't even ask for the right plaintiffs.

ISRA sent a revised notice and pulled that out. What Is going on over at ISRA?!?!!? 😲

[Craigcr2]

On 1/12/2023 at 2:57 PM, mab22 said:

 

I kinda don't trust them and won't send any money or re-join until I know what they stand for.

Just received an email that they are looking for plaintiffs and they are challenging the following.

To ME it appears that they are okay with the FOID still, and I'm not quite sure what they are going against, is it just the law that was passed or only certain parts of it?

Either way they should be the ones explaining it IMO.

From the email -

 

To further these legal challenges, ISRA is seeking potential Plaintiffs to challenge the following restrictions:

 

1. the assault weapon ban/registration requirement, which gives owners until Jan. 1 to register serial numbers with the Illinois State Police;

 

2. the large capacity magazine ban;

 

3. the FOID card prohibition for 18–20-year-olds.

 

ISRA remains at the forefront of fighting for Illinoisans' 2A rights, including working with the top legal minds across the Country practicing in this area.

 

They put out a revised post a little while ago. My guess is that they’ve been versioning this as bills changed and posted the wrong one.

 

http://www.aweber.com/newsletter/awlist4894361/MTczNDcxNjE=/revised-notice-the-isra-is-seeking-plaintiffs-illinois-law-signed-into-effect-by-governor-pritzker-violates-the-second.htm

On 1/12/2023 at 4:23 PM, Upholder said:

 

This restriction was in HB5855, but removed when it became SB2226 and was not re-inserted into HB5471 which is what eventually became the public act.

 

I question their abilities if they can't even ask for the right plaintiffs.

 

[JNG3]

On 1/12/2023 at 4:23 PM, Upholder said:

 

This restriction was in HB5855, but removed when it became SB2226 and was not re-inserted into HB5471 which is what eventually became the public act.

 

I question their abilities if they can't even ask for the right plaintiffs.

They are a bunch of morons.

[JNG3]

On 1/12/2023 at 6:40 PM, mab22 said:

ISRA sent a revised notice and pulled that out. What Is going on over at ISRA?!?!!? 😲

Once agian, morons.

[JNG3]

Darn, I misspelled again in my last post!

[techgeek]

On 1/12/2023 at 6:49 PM, JNG3 said:

Once agian, morons.

 

Yet another reason to not trust ISRA