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This needs to be said, so I'll say it


JDW

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Many of us have been on the IC Forum for 4 to 6 years, and many more for much longer. While I'm thrilled to see so many new users on the forum, I can't help but think that if all of you had been here all along, things may have ended differently than they have. It's kind of a shame that we live in a society that is reactive instead of proactive. Once the shtf, we all tend to react versus doing what we should have been all along, being proactive. It pains me to think that there are 2.5 million FOID holders in this state and on a really successful witness slip alert, we might get 8 to 12K people filing one. 

 

The lesson here is simple. The worst thing that could happen to our Pro 2A community just came up and happened in a matter of days. We who've been here on the forum had a good head start thanks to the folks who both run and contribute to this forum. I'm hoping now that many of you have found your way here that you become invested in the forum. Stick  around, check in, and by all means make a financial donation. I know how tough times are right now for many of us, but the folks who run this forum have tons of personal time invested and spend hours and hours down state when things are cooking. This all costs money, and we need to ensure that they're funded properly in order to keep us not only informed, but keep us in the fight. 

 

Tell every person you know that owns a firearm they need to join this site and become a regular. That old corny saying "there's power in numbers" is actually very true. If anything makes a politician weak in the knees, it's just the thought of a huge number of their constituents being  strongly opposed to some of their nonsense and unconstitutional bills. We, as law abiding and legal firearms owners were born with a God given right to our Second Amendment. No one should ever be able to take away that right for any reason other than that person committing a crime that reaches the level of disqualifying them from legal gun ownership. Then there's perhaps a very serious mental health issue. I'm not a lawyer, so I can't say with precision who can and cannot legally own a firearm in this state. I do know that an eighth grade kid in the city with a full auto Glock is a no go, but the powers that be seem to think that kid's not the issue, we are . My point is very simple, I'm glad to see so many new users. I encourage you to invite your friends and family to the forum. I encourage you to get involved from this day forward and stay involved. Together, we can make a difference, but we need the numbers. If we could somehow get just 25% of FOID holders to become an active part of this forum and have them support our lobbyists and reps in the upcoming battles, we have a very good chance at having the courts rule in our favor. Once and for all, the power hungry tyrants in Springfield will be held to account and told NO, you can't just do this stuff willy nilly any longer. it's time folks, it's time to show support to folks that are willing to do the bidding on our behalf. It's time to respectfully and politely let your state rep and senator know why you're happy or unhappy with their votes. If we don't get it together right now, I fear the future for our once great state is very bleak. Rant over

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So true Steve. Riding  the coattails of those that represent us so well year after year just ain't gonna cut it any longer. May I add, you're a tremendous asset to this forum and I'm grateful for all the work you put in. Thank you.

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Most people don’t follow politics. They live their lives and just don’t. I was at the lgs buying something on saturday just cause they’re going to need all the money they can get. And so many people didn’t know what was going on. On tuesday when I picked it up, People were scrambling to buy their ar cause they heard something was coming up and they were being banned. So even if theres 2.5 mil foid holders, not many are on the forums or even active in the community, they’re just regular people living their lives and are oblivious to the people that are trying to screw them over.

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On 1/11/2023 at 10:37 PM, IH8IL said:

Most people don’t follow politics. They live their lives and just don’t. I was at the lgs buying something on saturday just cause they’re going to need all the money they can get. And so many people didn’t know what was going on. On tuesday when I picked it up, People were scrambling to buy their ar cause they heard something was coming up and they were being banned. So even if theres 2.5 mil foid holders, not many are on the forums or even active in the community, they’re just regular people living their lives and are oblivious to the people that are trying to screw them over.

I think this is very true. I talked to a friend tonight and he is a real gun guy and he asked me if it was too late to get parts for an AR build. I was sorry to tell him yes. He works hard and has a little girl and wife and is busy and just doesn't have the time to spend online keeping up with all this crap. I'm a new member and I joined because I am going to the concealed carry class in a few weeks and it just happened that all of this legislation happened at the same time or I may not have heard about it because there was nothing in the local paper until today, when it was too late to do anything about it. So many people vote for democrats in this state because their unions tell them to vote that way. They don't think about anything except their paycheck and living week to week. Most of the gun owners in Illinois are not active gun owners, they have a FOID and a gun for protection in their home and they are not really interested or worried about the 2nd Amendment issues that we care about. Let's face it, we are a minority and the pols know that and are not afraid to push us around. They have nothing but contempt for the citizens, especially if you live south of I-80. Illinois is really two states; Chicago and South of Chicago. Chicago controls everything and causes most of the problems because of poverty and progressive policies. That's never going to change. Chicago rules and they know it. The rest of us are just tax donkeys for the graft machine. I didn't buy my first gun until I retired at age 54. I found shooting to be a relaxing and fun diversion and guns are great tools, and who doesn't like a great tool. I never got into the whole AR thing but I understand why people like them and I have some friends who enjoy taking a raw gun and creating a beautiful work of art with it. That's what the pols don't understand, guns are a passion for some people and they represent an ideal that takes us back to the founding of our nation and the principals that we seem to have lost sight of today. The level of corruption of our current society is so great that we really don't have any idea what is going on behind the curtain of the legislature. Illinois is one of the most corrupt states in the union and it will never change because the power to change it rests with the people responsible for the problem. I hope the courts will recognize this law for the unconstitutional load of crap that it is but I'm not going to hold my breath in the meantime. This forum is a great resource for gun owners and the people who run it are doing God's work and I thank them for their dedication and time. Let's be open to new members and not be afraid to welcome them into the group. I know a few people were not very happy with some of my early posts and they may not be happy with this one but once you get to know me you will find out that I can live with it, either way. Rant over

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On 1/11/2023 at 10:37 PM, IH8IL said:

Most people don’t follow politics. They live their lives and just don’t. I was at the lgs buying something on saturday just cause they’re going to need all the money they can get. And so many people didn’t know what was going on. On tuesday when I picked it up, People were scrambling to buy their ar cause they heard something was coming up and they were being banned. So even if theres 2.5 mil foid holders, not many are on the forums or even active in the community, they’re just regular people living their lives and are oblivious to the people that are trying to screw them over.

Pretty much this. Unfortunately I fall into this group. I follow Todd on FB and usually see something from him when something like this comes up. I then put life aside as much as I can and try to follow whats happening as closely as possible. I fill out witness slips every chance I get, and did so for every alert the last few weeks. Then Monday hit, and I found the IC forum had been blocked on my company computer. I was on the forum all day Sunday on that same computer. So I had to hide my phone and follow along as best as I could. Work, disabled family members, gradeschool age kids, homework, etc. gets in the way sometimes. But I try the best that I can. That said, I will say that 2M gun owners in the state is NOT the same as 2M soldiers fighting for 2A rights. For every true 2A supporter I know, I know 10-15 people that just own guns. They hunt deer or waterfowl. They may own a rifle for shooting cans on the 4th, maybe even a handgun for home defence. Maybe they have a couple more shotguns than they hunt with because one was dad's and one was grandpa's. Every time they hear about an AWB they think "Well, I don't have to worry about that", or they say "I'm not worried about it, they will never pass that." because they don't see what we see when these half-wits in charge of the state get together in large groups. They don't see the looks on their faces or hear their tone of voice as they gleefully strip away our rights. I've also been a reenactor of two different eras, and I am still shocked at how many of those guys are die hard democrats that blindly vote for the people that want to take their primary hobby away from them. They don't put two and two together. Until we can persuade the 2M gun owners in this state to not just be gun owners, to be more than that, we will not be able to count on anywhere near the number of advocates as there are issued FOID cards. And while we can look at it as people being late to the party, we can also look at the bright side and realize that this passed legislation has opened a lot of people's eyes and is bringing more and more people into the fold with each passing hour as they realize what was stolen from them without a care in the world. A lot of people are waking up.

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There are so many reasons as to why we are here.  I could stay up all night typing out the reasons why. I will focus briefly on the party that loses and why.  

We don't have the votes, and the deck is stacked against us now because the district maps are sooooo F'd up in favor of the dems.  Cook county lost tons of population but the dems managed to gerrymander the maps so that it was the GOP who lost seats.  The court challenges were a joke.  
  
The IL GOP needs to rethink election strategy.  Every farm house and outhouse needs to be ballot harvested. Mail in ballots and ballot harvesting has turned elections from policy oriented debates to something like a game.   

The IL GOP needs to learn to play it because it gives the democrats a huge advantage.   


In the blue areas of the state I believe the GOP needs to work to elect sleeper agents that run as democrats but are really republican/conservative.  Sheriff David Clarke comes to mind... ran as a dem in Milwaukee (while a conservative black) and he won.  That means embracing identity politics and working to elect DINOs.  Right now, the IL GOP works to elect republicans that are really democrat/liberal.  

 



 

 

 

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I will counter with one thing, do any of you really feel that any of the politicians that pushed that bill care, even in the slightest, about our rights?

 

No, they don’t, not one bit. They don’t care about us, or our witness slips, or lawyers, or even the constitution.

 

They’re angry and vindictive. Simply put, the just had the numbers to do what they’ve been wanting to do for decades. Full stop.

 

this site could have had 10 million members, all standing at the capital, and the Supreme Court stating, in writing, that they would strike it down should they pass it…and those morons still would have passed it.

 

Too many assume these people listen to logic or reason, they don’t. They had the advantage and they took it, and would have done it no matter what what we did.

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On 1/12/2023 at 5:59 AM, smokehouse said:

I will counter with one thing, do any of you really feel that any of the politicians that pushed that bill care, even in the slightest, about our rights?

 

No, they don’t, not one bit. They don’t care about us, or our witness slips, or lawyers, or even the constitution.

 

They’re angry and vindictive. Simply put, the just had the numbers to do what they’ve been wanting to do for decades. Full stop.

 

this site could have had 10 million members, all standing at the capital, and the Supreme Court stating, in writing, that they would strike it down should they pass it…and those morons still would have passed it.

 

Too many assume these people listen to logic or reason, they don’t. They had the advantage and they took it, and would have done it no matter what what we did.

 

^^^ This is truth !  The ones who voted for this B. S. don't care about the constitution and certainly don't care about our rights .  Not the 2A nor the 1A.  They only care about being in power and keeping that power. 

 

As far as the gun owners with FOID cards , like has been said , many have their shotgun and maybe a .22 rifle and don't even like a semi automatic firearm. They don't care about anything else being taken away from people.  I have family in that category and they think no one will be coming for their guns.   The Anti gunners want them all. 

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These are the same people that are voting to make free speech illegal, to strip our rights as parents, as business owners, as citizens. They want 1 million illegal immigrants flooding the border every year. They want to defund the police, tax us into oblivion, allow criminals to roam free, pay the homeless monthly stipends, and force us, by law, to use certain pronouns.

 

not a single one of these people understand logic, or freedoms, they just don’t care.

 

when the last, petty, vindictive words muttered were “see you in court”…what, in this world, do you think any of us could have done to dissuade them?

 

all we can hope for, and this is pertaining to any of these “feel good” laws, is that the courts put their foot down. This is now modern politics. Pass illegal and unconstitutional laws, see if those who oppose it have the money, and the will to take it to court.

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I guess my point of typing all of that was because of the people here beating themselves up over this. There was no “this wouldn’t have happened, if we only xyz.” They finally had the numbers to

pass it, plain and simple. They’ve been waiting for years to have that opportunity, and they took it.

 

Our gov wants to go on TV, run his mouth and puff out his chest, claiming he did this and that, so he’ll get elected again…or worse, run for president.

 

To them, this isn’t about safety, or rights…this is about votes and grandstanding.

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I own a large collection of WWI/II bolt action rifles, some .22 and a shotgun for bird hunting. I do not own any modern AR15 type rifles.  I AM one of those guys.  Sorry about this but I have a large family, run a small biz, and have two sick in-laws.  I reckon I am the majority of FOID owners.   However, I value the rights of gun owners and distrust government.  I didn’t hear of the AWB until mid December and got active ASAP.  I filed Wtness slips, emails local reps (all dems and cosponsors).  Spoke to my LGS, found this website etc.

 

That being said, I also never received a single email about this until it was too late.  for instance, I am on the Maxon mail list, and didn’t receive any email until the senate failed to pass the house bill.  This is late for the organizations, including This one. 
 

so maybe it’s time to organize, and maybe it’s time to help our neighbor states to get ahead of this!

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On 1/12/2023 at 7:40 AM, Odinson said:

Preaching to the choir for sure but this is such window dressing and sick virtue signaling. 665 people shot and killed last year in Chicago, almost 3k shot in addition to those. So far this year (12Jan2023), 14 dead plus 63 shot.

 

What do you think any of these 'new' laws will do to address this violence? 

They need to use those deaths to say they did not go far enough wit this action

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I confess.  I never heard the term, "Witness Slip" until a couple weeks ago.  

 

How do we get the word out?  How do we get people involved? 

 

You got to hand it to the democrats.  They get their constituents involved and voting.  Heck, they even mail them the ballots and do the voting for them, if they want to or not.  

 

That's what we need to do.  But how?

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In this age where everything has a label, I have two words for Democrats: Toxic Arrogance.

 

Getting people to engage is hard. I manage an email list of friends who receive alerts. Some file Witness Slips promptly. Others want to stay under the radar. Ones who moved away stop caring.  And some don't receive my emails because Comcast (or other) platforms filter out emails with URL links as spam. I will continue adding sympathetic names to the list, but it takes more outreach than relying on an email list that may not even reach all of its intended recipients.

 

When is IGOLD so we can let people know?

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Honestly, it wouldn't have made a difference, at all.  

 

Literally every FOID card holder in Illinois could have sent emails, wrote letters, and blew the phones up and it wouldn't have made a single bit of difference.  

 

Just look at the last 2-3 elections.  Barely 40% of voting aged people bothered to get out and vote, that vast majority of whom were outside of the northeastern part of the state.  

 

When people can't even be bothered to get out and vote, and basically hands the election to the democrats, this is what we get in return.  

 

There's no legitimate reason for JB having won the election.  Look at the total votes between him and Bailey.  We have approximately 10M people over the age of 18 in this state.  If you round up vote totals, JB and Bailey had 4 million between them.  Where are these other 6 million voters?  

 

I personally know several people who are all about political debate and criticizing democrats, and they don't even vote.  The problem isn't the new people who suddenly discovered that they live in a horrible state, the problem is that 6 million Illinoisans are complacent, lazy, sacks of manure who'd rather stuff Doritos down their gullets than make an effort to actual effect the changes that would actually help them.  

 

I also know people who claim that they're pro gun, but vote democrat.  When I've asked why they vote democrat when democrats are trying to ban their guns they've said "they'll never ban guns....guns are the boogeyman that helps them get reelected."  Well, these last two days have been interesting watching them deal with the cognitive dissonance of their political stances.  

 

The point of all of this is they were set on passing this regardless.  We could have shown up to the capital in force, 2+ million strong and they would have still passed it.  The blame goes solely to those who either voted democrat, or couldn't be bothered to waddle into a voting booth in this last election.  

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Been here going on 9 years now.....don't/didn't participate in a lot of discussions until this recent crises because of the "tone" of many discussions and many Forumites who want to turn everything into a Hate Speech of some kind (or insinuate if not say outright that people and politicians who disagree with them should be visited with violence) and *this* kind of stuff is *why* a lot of these people want US disarmed.

 

In general. firearm forums have not done the gun owning community any favors by letting folks who own firearms threaten, posture, bully, and act like the very thugs we want to defend ourselves against. This forum seems a lot more focused on making gun owners and firearms enthusiasts look more sane and centered lately and that's why I'm back. The worst thing we can do as gun owners is threaten "from my cold dead hands" and insinuate that Politicians need to be hanged and such.

 

This is why many of these whack jobs want US disarmed.....violent rhetoric and extremist epithets make the gun community look scary to people not familiar with this culture. We are, US gun owners, our own worst enemies at times.

 

It needed to be said and I said it. It's much better than it was a few years ago and I thank Mauserme, Molly B and the rest for setting the "tone" and hope to participate more. Fellow Firearms Enthusiasts, this is not the time in history nor the circumstances to intimate extremist viewpoints. Think what you want but guard your tone and we'll have much better luck convincing people outside our gun culture that this current situation will not solve any problems but will likely make things worse. Please guard your "tone" and choose your words carefully.

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+1 for the "I love guns but have a busy life" crowd. Two kids, school, sports, work, etc. Not an excuse but I don't generally have the time to follow every law, etc. Love this site and have been lurking since we won our right to carry back. 

 

All that being said, it doesn't matter how or when you got here. You're here and lets fight. Go watch Todd's video from last night. Its not about witness slips they will ignore anyhow, its about the fight. He hit a chord with me last night discussing how it cost $1.2 million or whatever to fight for CCL in IL. This fight is going to cost more. 

 

I urge each of you to go watch that video and donate what/if you can. 2+ mil FOID holders in IL. If everyone gave $1 we'd be looking strong. Since we know everyone wont give a dollar, give what you can. If you truly feel like helping and don't want to ride the coat tails of others in this fight, then give. $5, $10, $20.... it all adds up. Skip buying one box of ammo, one lunch out, etc. This is where the help is needed! 

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Everything stated so far is cogent and valid. From these things we need to develop marketing strategies that will counter the emotional rhetoric of those who oppose us. The media and leftists portray us as blubbering sexist and racist wackos in pickup trucks or super right flag wavers who want the country to return to 1950. It’s time we develop our image to compliment a sound strategy for the future.
 

This may leave a bad taste for some on our side, but change is needed. The cost of doing what we’ve been doing, and coming up short, is too great. We need to recognize that just telling your elected official of your position is not enough. We need one organization with one mission, with one strategy, and one pool of funds. Our diffused approach is not working. We need to create strong, pointed, political power that can be brought to bear as needed. Because the political landscape has changed in Illinois, If we don’t change we’ll always be at the mercy of a court to bail us out. We need to shape the political landscape not react to it. 

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On 1/12/2023 at 8:22 AM, jsg-07 said:

urge each of you to go watch that video and donate what/if you can. 2+ mil FOID holders in IL. If everyone gave $1 we'd be looking strong. Since we know

Also agree.  However I will look for a coordinated legal effort.  When I feel comfortable we have this I will donate.   We need to also determine how to get to the collector/non AR community energized.  

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On 1/12/2023 at 8:30 AM, GunCollector said:

Also agree.  However I will look for a coordinated legal effort.  When I feel comfortable we have this I will donate.   We need to also determine how to get to the collector/non AR community energized.  

100% agree. Go where you are comfortable. I chose the FFL site based on a recommendation from Todd and how the three groups are banning together. Also listened to a video/radio interview yesterday with someone form Guns save life who suggested the same. 

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I just posted something similar the other day related to the LGS's and their lack of broadcasting.  Last weekend we went to Range USA in Naperville for some range time.  The store was packed.  I didn't hear a single mention about any of this until I started small talking with another shopper.  He seemed more annoyed by me than the topic.  Every LGS in the state should be talking about these issues to every single customer.  

How about ISP who miraculously is able to maintain our FOID/CC permit slips although they aren't anywhere near perfect?  There aught to be a law they must notify every permission slip holder what the government is up to as it relates.  F Illinois

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