Credit card industries to track firearm and ammo sales.

[mab22]

First they can single it out and track it, next comes them coming together to ban the sales, my prediction and speculation, but I wouldn't put it past them to attempt it.

https://hotair.com/john-s-2/2022/09/09/the-credit-card-industry-has-approved-a-plan-to-track-sales-of-guns-and-ammo-n495512

 

Quote

The industry group that sets international standards for credit card companies has decided to create a new code for the purchase of guns and ammo that, while not identifying the exact purchases, will separate those items from the more generic category they had been lumped in with previously.

 

Quote

Merchant category codes are made up of four digits and are used across all sorts of industries as a means to classify retailers, while not revealing individual product purchases. Credit card companies currently lump firearm retailers in with other outlets, classifying them as either “5999: Miscellaneous retail stores” or “5941: Sporting Goods Stores.”

With a new code for firearms merchants, potentially suspicious purchasing patterns could be flagged to law enforcement — much the same way banks and credit unions made more than 1.4 million suspicious activity reports in 2021 for other types of transactions that might suggest anything from identity theft to terrorist financing.

This is part of a plan being pushed by congressional Democrats after Amalgamated Bank of New York, a progressive bank that often involves itself in social issues, made repeated attempts to push for the new code, all of which were denied.

 

[Dumak_from_arfcom]

They'll just report every transaction over a certain amount to law enforcement. Then law enforcement will show up at your door asking why you spent X amount of dollars on guns and ammo, and then they'll request you bring them out so they can verify you still have what you purchased.   
 

[mauserme]

If it's a merchant code rather than a merchandise code, will they be able to tell if I bought a $200 jacket at Cabelas, or $200 in ammunition?

 

[Dumak_from_arfcom]

On 9/10/2022 at 10:21 AM, mauserme said:

If it's a merchant code rather than a merchandise code, will they be able to tell if I bought a $200 jacket at Cabelas, or $200 in ammunition?

 

 

Cabelas knows exactly what you purchased. 

A credit card company won't know exactly what was purchased, but that won't matter.  They'll flag purchases over a certain dollar amount or a certain number of transactions.  From that point, law enforcement can ask Cabelas to turn over your purchase information (many private companies would comply because the result in failing to comply with requests would be threats from the ATF), obtain a warrant to get that information, or just show up for a knock and talk and ask the customer what they purchased that resulted in the transaction getting flagged.  

 

 

[Flynn]

Buy 'store' gift cards, use 'store' gift cards to buy whatever.

[SiliconSorcerer]

On 9/10/2022 at 10:43 AM, Dumak_from_arfcom said:

 

Cabelas knows exactly what you purchased. 

A credit card company won't know exactly what was purchased, but that won't matter.  They'll flag purchases over a certain dollar amount or a certain number of transactions.  From that point, law enforcement can ask Cabelas to turn over your purchase information (many private companies would comply because the result in failing to comply with requests would be threats from the ATF), obtain a warrant to get that information, or just show up for a knock and talk and ask the customer what they purchased that resulted in the transaction getting flagged.  

 

 

You can buy a lot of ammo for the price of a good bolt action rifle, at what dollar would make sense.  just like the over 10,000 transfers there's a bazzilion of them a day, figuring our which to chase would be a good trick.  its typically not how much but how many, if your buying ammo or a rifle everyday, then maybe it'll matter. 

 

[springfield shooter]

On 9/10/2022 at 10:21 AM, mauserme said:

If it's a merchant code rather than a merchandise code, will they be able to tell if I bought a $200 jacket at Cabelas, or $200 in ammunition?

 

 

I understand they have nice lawn chairs.

[DoYouFeelLucky]

I foresee the return of the 10% off for cash purchases.

[carry205]

So when are they going to track other “weapons” ?  What about knives, sledge hammers, baseball bats, screwdrivers, automobiles, airplanes, controlled substances?  The list is endless.  If someone wants to kill someone else, they will use whatever they have access to.  Where does this stop?

[Flynn]

And like a good liberal lapdog VISA, MasterCard adn AMEX have all apparently signed up!

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/visa-mastercard-amex-start-categorizing-sales-gun-shops-rcna47183

 

CASH IS KING!

[MrTriple]

I'm gonna get chewed out for saying this, but I think people are overreacting.

 

First, this is really just an extension of the moral panic that gave us DEI and ESG. Sooner or later, all moral panics collapse in on themselves.

 

Second, this is the sorta thing that sounds great in the boardroom until the lawsuits start flying. And when that happens (and it will) the CEO will begin asking who's bright idea it was in the first place.

 

And let's not kid ourselves: Any attempt to begin flagging gun owners would have every attorney in the country lining up to take these sort of lawsuits.

 

And as far as law enforcement is concerned? Same scenario: Lawsuits. Lots and lots of lawsuits. Does the Something-something-ville Police Department really have the resources to defend their actions in court should they act on a report from Mastercard?

[RECarry]

"If you are not a tax cheat or deplorable or insurrectionist or murderer you should have nothing to worry about."

[Kipp Jones]

Pay cash. 

 

[Fuddly]

On 9/11/2022 at 1:32 PM, MrTriple said:

I'm gonna get chewed out for saying this, but I think people are overreacting.

 

 

Agreed because I don’t think it changes a whole bunch unless you purchase at a big box. Anything you buy at a LGS over a certain amount is almost certainly a gun. You can always pay cash. The benefit to using a credit card is the points you might earn. For a big box store you can buy gift cards and still get the points. But yeah it’s another of a thousand cuts if you want to maintain privacy of credit card purchases at cabelas, Walmart, rk, etc without the hoop of gift cards. 

[Professor Wheezy]

I think this will hit online sellers the hardest if if fact it occurs.  Local B&M and LGS you can always pay cash but its a lot harder to not use a CC online.

[bosshogg]

On 9/11/2022 at 6:57 PM, Kipp Jones said:

Pay cash. 

 

ya'll paid with card to begin with?

[Bubbacs]

Heard this morning at 8:00am on WBBM they were explaining this and stated that if the CC or Shipper suspect anything wrong (hinkey, my word) that the shipment can be diverted to a law enforcement facility for further review!  Just FYI.

[alco0203]

A little concerning, but the potential next step will be the one to watch closely and is much more troubling. 

 

I don't understand how you could accurately determine whether a purchase is "dangerous" solely based on the merchant and amount spent. A mass shooter who buys the cheapest AR15 and a couple hundred rounds of ammo may not get flagged, but the rich weekend trap shooter who buys a $3000 competition gun and no ammo likely would. Makes no sense, but then again this whole thing doesn't.

 

Will online retail sales eventually go the way of private sales on Gunbroker using the slow and inconvenient USPS money order process?

 

Hopefully not....

 

 

[Flynn]

On 9/12/2022 at 10:24 AM, alco0203 said:

I don't understand how you could accurately determine whether a purchase is "dangerous" solely based on the merchant and amount spent. A mass shooter who buys the cheapest AR15 and a couple hundred rounds of ammo may not get flagged, but the rich weekend trap shooter who buys a $3000 competition gun and no ammo likely would. Makes no sense, but then again this whole thing doesn't

 

When it comes to the anti-gun crowd anything you purchase from a gun store is 'dangerous', just look at California they just banned anything guy company branded that might be marketed to children!  For example no more S&W ear muffs for your monster truck show because they are bad because it's gun related!  No more child sized safety glass from gun companies either for whatever use as they are evil as well because of the name/logo/manufactor is evil.

[RECarry]

Factoid: Biden's state of Delaware is known for issuing credit card bank charters. Coincidence? I think not.

[MrTriple]

They think they're being clever, but this'll just result in federal legislation prohibiting this behavior. We're probably going to see future legislation over tech company censorship, so it wouldn't surprise me to see something similar in regards to payment processing services; it's basically the same issue but manifested in another way.

 

It also reeks of desperation. If they don't think can get legislation passed, they figure this'll be a suitable alternative.

[Dumak_from_arfcom]

You have to focus on what the politicians are saying about this.  Democrats don't do anything without a plan.   

You make a purchase, gun related or not, and then an alert is generated. They aren't telling us what threshold triggers that alert.  At the least, law enforcement starts showing up at homes like they did in the first ATF porch video.  They either know what you purchased or they start asking you what you purchased and if you still have it.  Bought a case of 9mm and now only have half of it a few days later?  The law enforcement accusation will be it was purchased for resale to prohibited persons.  Don't want to answer their questions? They'll just file a C&PD report on you because you were uncooperative and *angry*.  

I also believe they'll tie these credit card purchase flags into the red flag laws.  What are the politicians are saying:  The mass shooters made these purchases on credit cards over a period of time.  They they are trying to make the claim and set the stage that guns purchased on credit cards make you a possible mass shooter. 

 

 

[mab22]

Found the article that ties it all together and where it’s headed. 
Back door ban by eliminating A path to purchase, note the use of the word “problematic”. Also a way to put a hurt on “businesses” that sell certain products. Sorry, you sell X and it’s problematic. 

In the article, and follow the links in the article, you see certain political parties leaning on private institutions to do their will.

 

https://thefederalist.com/2022/09/12/credit-card-giants-conspire-with-democrats-to-monitor-consumer-gun-purchases/

 

Quote

Even before Democrats decided to pressure credit card companies into doing their bidding on guns, Amalgamated Bank President and CEO Priscilla Sims Brown demanded financial institutions surveil the firearm industry using merchant category codes. Her initial plea to the ISO in June 2021 was rejected, based on recommendationsfrom Visa, Mastercard, and American Express. But since Amalgamated Bank, the largest union-owned bank in the U.S. works closely with the ISO, it was no surprise that, shortly after Brown’s ongoing push to make credit companies the Big Brother of gun sales was once again amplified by corporate media in June of 2022, the ISO decided to adopt the new recommendations less than three months later. 

As Federalist Senior Legal Correspondent Margot Cleveland noted in her previous coverage of Mastercard and Visa, academic researchsuggests that “disrupting the sale of illegal goods through the payment networks of Mastercard, Visa, and their partner banks appears more effective than legal action.” That’s because both Visa and Mastercard can “punish banks” out of doing business with entities that the credit card companies classify as illegal or problematic.

 

[Flynn]

On 9/12/2022 at 3:09 PM, Dumak_from_arfcom said:

Democrats don't do anything without a plan.

 

This right here, don't listen to the lip service, we have decades of factual history to reference to see how the Democrats lay the ground work on the sly as they work towards their actual goal once the pieces are put into place.

 

It's not hard to see where this is going, as said above, if you purchase $1000 from a gun store and they have your name/address what is to stop the 'straw purchase' harrasment that we are already seeing?  If they show up and know or discover you bought 1000 rounds but refuse to show it to them are they going to use that as probable cause to get a warrant?  And if they get the warrant and only find 500 rounds are you going to be arrested until you prove you legally sold those rounds and/or used them legally.  Sorry but anyone that says this is far fetched is wearing blinders, we are literally already seeing the ATF doing this, this will just provide more paperwork for them to track more people down!

[DoYouFeelLucky]

Two of my LGS don't bill through their FFL business.  You pay one of their other businesses.  They have been doing it this way for many years.

[djmarkla]

It is against the law to have a federal firearms registry, but private companies can do what they wish with the info they collect. They might even join the club by doing "unofficial" work on behalf of agencies that are not supposed to. Twitter and Facebook squelched voices that did not toe the line during the covid lockdowns, or asked questions about hunter Bidens laptop. What would be a first amendment violation if done directly by government was "okay" because "private companies".

 

[RECarry]

Given the paucity of gun shops in minority neighborhoods, credit card transaction data will now be available to prove that 2nd Amendment rights can only be exercised in wealthier zip codes.

[mab22]

On 9/13/2022 at 7:10 AM, djmarkla said:

It is against the law to have a federal firearms registry, but private companies can do what they wish with the info they collect. They might even join the club by doing "unofficial" work on behalf of agencies that are not supposed to. Twitter and Facebook squelched voices that did not toe the line during the covid lockdowns, or asked questions about hunter Bidens laptop. What would be a first amendment violation if done directly by government was "okay" because "private companies".

 

I don’t think the govt can use private entities to be an enforcer for something the govt can’t do. So law suits will have to be filed, but in the mean time the BS continues. 

[Dumak_from_arfcom]

On 9/13/2022 at 10:53 AM, mab22 said:

I don’t think the govt can use private entities to be an enforcer for something the govt can’t do. So law suits will have to be filed, but in the mean time the BS continues. 

The phone companies and google have been giving information to the DOJ for over a decade.  Facebook and Twitter spent millions on the election in support of mail in voting in blue districts but not in red districts.   Facebook and Twitter have been censoring at the request of the Biden admin.  

[mauserme]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-13/visa-warns-new-merchant-codes-won-t-show-if-customers-buy-guns?srnd=technology-vp&sref=TBDibEcD&leadSource=uverify wall

 

Visa Warns Merchant Codes Won’t Show Customer Gun Purchases

ByJennifer Surane

 

Visa Inc. warned a new system that gun-control advocates are saying will limit mass shootings might not have the desired effect. 

 

Earlier this month, the International Organization for Standardization approved a new merchant category code, or MCC, that banks will use when processing transactions for gun and ammunition stores. Gun-control advocates were quick to celebrate the move, arguing it would help banks flag suspicious activity at these retailers. 

 

The problem, Visa says, is when it processes transactions for any merchant it doesn’t have access to data showing what products consumers are actually buying. That means the network and its banking partners would have no idea if a consumer is buying an automatic rifle or safety equipment at these stores. 

...

“We do not believe private companies should serve as moral arbiters,” Visa said. “Asking private companies to decide what legal products or services can or cannot be bought and from what store sets a dangerous precedent. Further, it would be an invasion of consumers’ privacy for banks and payment networks to know each of our most personal purchasing habits. Visa is firmly against this.”