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Miller v. Bonta, California AWB case


MrTriple
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This was the AWB case originally heard by Judge Benitez, who struck the ban down. The 9th Circuit has vacated the case and remanded it back to the lower court, which means he'll be hearing the case again. I personally believe he'll rule the same way he did the first time, incorporating whatever changes are necessary to comply with Bruen.

 

Seems like a stall tactic on the 9th Circuit's part, but not an unforeseen outcome.

 

 

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Yes, he will rule the same way. If you read his original opinion closely he issued the opinion from two points of view. From the TTH single step approach and from the two step approach.

 

He will of course, update his opinion to reflect more closely with the Bruen opinion. Making reference to multiple sections of Bruen, and to those of Heller and McDonald that Bruen pointed out. He will also make more mention and use of the actual lack of history or tradition for massacre firearm bans.

 

The real trick, is will it have multiple hearings again, including discovery. Or will he just issue an opinion after both side issue their briefs and opposition briefs.

 

However, I also think that the plaintiffs Miller, will ask And request a TRO &/or injunction which after the required hearings he will grant. This time they won’t be stayed.

 

Suffice it to say, it all starts over from the beggining. Yet the outcome should be the same.

 

What will also be interesting is WHICH AWB case will make it back to the Supreme Court first, and and if one will make it there before the end of the year. Sadly I don’t think one will make it back to SCOTUS before the end of this year, other then a shadow emergency docket for a TRO/Injunction.

 

Even Bianchi v Frosh, have their hearings delayed and set for argument in December.

An intentional delay by the appeals court.

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Because the case has been sent back down, the defense has an opportunity to (try to) come up with an argument congruent with Bruen (which is probably why the appeals court sent it back). Unless the lower court receives instructions to rule a certain way, that's why remand pretty much always means a new trial or hearing (depending upon how far back down a case gets sent).

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On 8/2/2022 at 6:49 PM, Texasgrillchef said:

Yes, he will rule the same way. If you read his original opinion closely he issued the opinion from two points of view. From the TTH single step approach and from the two step approach.

 

He will of course, update his opinion to reflect more closely with the Bruen opinion. Making reference to multiple sections of Bruen, and to those of Heller and McDonald that Bruen pointed out. He will also make more mention and use of the actual lack of history or tradition for massacre firearm bans.

 

The real trick, is will it have multiple hearings again, including discovery. Or will he just issue an opinion after both side issue their briefs and opposition briefs.

 

However, I also think that the plaintiffs Miller, will ask And request a TRO &/or injunction which after the required hearings he will grant. This time they won’t be stayed.

 

Suffice it to say, it all starts over from the beggining. Yet the outcome should be the same.

 

What will also be interesting is WHICH AWB case will make it back to the Supreme Court first, and and if one will make it there before the end of the year. Sadly I don’t think one will make it back to SCOTUS before the end of this year, other then a shadow emergency docket for a TRO/Injunction.

 

Even Bianchi v Frosh, have their hearings delayed and set for argument in December.

An intentional delay by the appeals court.

A part of me wonders if any AWB case will make it to the Supreme Court without a lower court striking it down first. I would think that the GVR of Bianchi would be taken as a clear indication of the Court's thinking, and many judges won't want to issue a ruling they know SCOTUS would strike down on appeal.

 

For judges who want to "minimize the damage caused by Bruen," the strategic thing to do is strike the law down and leave it at that. I guarantee that the gun control movement now wishes that the lower courts had struck New York's good cause requirement in the first instance.

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On 8/2/2022 at 7:21 PM, MrTriple said:

A part of me wonders if any AWB case will make it to the Supreme Court without a lower court striking it down first. I would think that the GVR of Bianchi would be taken as a clear indication of the Court's thinking, and many judges won't want to issue a ruling they know SCOTUS would strike down on appeal.

 

For judges who want to "minimize the damage caused by Bruen," the strategic thing to do is strike the law down and leave it at that. I guarantee that the gun control movement now wishes that the lower courts had struck New York's good cause requirement in the first instance.


Well all good thoughts and logic but let’s take a step back here and look at a somewhat prior case.

 

Wrenn v D.C. in which that lower court held in favor of wrenn against D.C. basically wha the Bruen decision did for carry outside the home. 
 

D.C. was about to file a petition for cert with SCOTUS, but was pressured by states like NY and California not to purse it as to force the issue on the other May Issue states at the time.

 
NY currently is the only state to give SCOTUS a big FU. With. The Gov. Calling the legislature back to pass a new law. No other state has done that yet. Hawaii Just has no started issuing permits yet. Soon maybe, just not yet. Ca is all dependent on where your at.

 

That being said though….

 

The courts in certain areas are granting extension of time to prolong the case. One strange exception is an Obama appointed judge in Colorado issuing a TRO.

 

Bianchi v Frosh though is being set for oral argument but not at district court level. The 3 judge panel wants to rule on this one for some reason.

 

Then again too… one has to consider the courts they are in, and who the judges are at what levels, and what procedures are available to be followed.

 

When Judge St Bonitez rules the same way… Bonta can still appeal back to the 3 judge panel. Giving the 3 judge panel an additional opportunity to find another chance to reverse the district courts opinion. 9th circuit En Banc will deny En Banc. Then a petition for cert with SCOTUS will be filed. 
 

SCOTUS is aware that there are over 8 different AWB cases still pending. So they will either hold Miller, or they will Grant. Which AWB will be the best to grant cert on is all a matter of opinion.

 

Even though those who are fighting to keep the AWB know they will eventually LOSE, they still want to delay that outcome as much as possible, and cost us as many dollars as possible, even though they will have to pay it in the end.

 

They aren’t playing to minimize damage… they are playing an ALL or NOTHING game. They are all in, playing for all the marbles.

 

This was evident in NY. They could have MOOTED the case, like they did with NYC in 2020. They could have put the new law they have now back in 2021. They didn’t. They decided to wait till after to see what and how they could change to meet the new decision. They know the new Bruen or Hochul case if not both will end back up in front of SCOTUS. They know they will loose though too.

 

However… one big thing that is driving all of the politicians, because this year is an election year. They have to show they are trying to fight, even if they loose later.

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  • 3 weeks later...

This isn’t as bad news as everyone thinks it is. 
 

St Benitez isn’t going to change his ruling.

 

The only thing this does is delay the inevitable. Ca will appeal this back to the 9th Circuit. Then on to the En Banc. Which if they don’t uphold Judge St. Benitez. They know SCOTUS will overturn their ruling. If it end up in front of SCOTUS with an improper ruling they will end giving the 9th circuit an opinion they won’t like.

 

So all the 9th circuit is trying to do is delay it for as long as they can.

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On 8/23/2022 at 4:52 PM, Texasgrillchef said:

This isn’t as bad news as everyone thinks it is. 
 

St Benitez isn’t going to change his ruling.

 

The only thing this does is delay the inevitable. Ca will appeal this back to the 9th Circuit. Then on to the En Banc. Which if they don’t uphold Judge St. Benitez. They know SCOTUS will overturn their ruling. If it end up in front of SCOTUS with an improper ruling they will end giving the 9th circuit an opinion they won’t like.

 

So all the 9th circuit is trying to do is delay it for as long as they can.

Are there rules for how long the circuit could delay an en banc hearing, for example? I could see them delaying scheduling a hearing for many, many months as a means of delaying the proceedings.

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Well there are time limits for filing appeals, and filing for an En Banc hearing.

 

However, as far as I can tell there are no time limits for a Justices issuing opinions. That being said though. They can’t indefinitely hold off an opinion without just cause. 
Staying cases is also another tactic. Such as many cases here stayed and held in abeyance due to the NYSPRA v Bruen case. 
 

I will do some research and see how long they can hold opinions before someone can take action.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Docket for the Federal District Court of Southern California

 

On August 8, Judge Benitez ordered the parties to file briefs within 20 days addressing the case with regard to NYSRPA v Bruen.

 

On August 29, Bonta et al. responded that they needed more time for discovery. Miller et al. responded that their case was unchanged and that NYSRPA v Bruen vindicated the original decision. Benitez gave the parties 45 more days, to be followed by 15 days to respond.

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If anyone wants to keep up with this case, Armed Scholar on YouTube watches it and many other cases in CA and elsewhere. Quick to respond, he's an attorney and not just a random commentator and his videos are thorough and in-depth. 

 

There's a common theme with most of the 2A cases out of CA right now. The gov't knows they can't win in light of Bruen, so they're just using stall tactics.

 

Edit: Just saw someone posted a link to his video above. Still worth subscribing for updates and other cases.

Edited by alco0203
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