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And We Think We Have it Bad


richp

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Pretty much as predicted.  The left-wingers running the state are proud that the licenses they must issue will be virtually worthless.  They've banned carry in about every location possible (including virtually all private businesses), and also made it very hard to even legally leave your gun in your car.  So virtually no-one will be actually able to legally carry.

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Sounds like more scotus cases incoming and in short order I would imagine.  I’m thankful that Illinois doesn’t have those levels of restrictions.  Case in point, my wife and I work in Missouri and were traveling through St. Louis just the other day.  We were in bumper to bumper traffic, a car was weaving in and out of traffic nearly hits me twice.

 

I suppose I shouldn’t have honked at the idea of nearly being hit.  Thankfully they got off an exit and never saw them again, one person in the car flicked me off, looked like the driver flashed a gun at me.  Little did they know I had mine in my pocket.  Never pulled it or showed it, they were on an exit by this point and I was on a crowded interstate so not exactly a good spot anyway.  But it made me think more about keeping it in the center console with a round in the chamber, as I typically pocket carry with an empty chamber.  Just glad they didn’t hit me because the way they were acting that situation seems like one that could have easily gone south, especially since it appeared there were multiple people in the car.  May have to rethink keeping an extra mag in the car also.

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On 7/2/2022 at 8:05 AM, illinois_buckeye said:

Sounds like more SCOTUS cases incoming and in short order I would imagine.

 

Little did they know I had mine in my pocket.  

 

But it made me think more about keeping it in the center console with a round in the chamber, as I typically pocket carry with an empty chamber.

 

I agree... courts will be looking at the new rules involving several recent SCOTUS cases. It seems NY will craft their new gun laws to presume a business does not allow concealed carry unless the business specifically posts that carry is allowed. The opposite of Illinois. Yikes.

 

RE: your carry experience

I have never pocket carried because I cannot imagine having adequate access to a pistol which is in my pocket, especially while driving. YMMV. And my pants pockets are for other things... EDC knife, flashlight, multi-tool. The center console is also for other things. With a good leather OWB holster I feel quite comfortable carrying cocked and locked, chamber loaded.

 

Never cheap out on your holster.

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On 7/2/2022 at 8:05 AM, illinois_buckeye said:

Sounds like more scotus cases incoming and in short order I would imagine.  I’m thankful that Illinois doesn’t have those levels of restrictions.  Case in point, my wife and I work in Missouri and were traveling through St. Louis just the other day.  We were in bumper to bumper traffic, a car was weaving in and out of traffic nearly hits me twice.

 

I suppose I shouldn’t have honked at the idea of nearly being hit.  Thankfully they got off an exit and never saw them again, one person in the car flicked me off, looked like the driver flashed a gun at me.  Little did they know I had mine in my pocket.  Never pulled it or showed it, they were on an exit by this point and I was on a crowded interstate so not exactly a good spot anyway.  But it made me think more about keeping it in the center console with a round in the chamber, as I typically pocket carry with an empty chamber.  Just glad they didn’t hit me because the way they were acting that situation seems like one that could have easily gone south, especially since it appeared there were multiple people in the car.  May have to rethink keeping an extra mag in the car also.

No offense, but I'd hate to see someone carrying but get killed or maimed due to the method.  Pocket carry is fine if you can reach and draw the gun out readily, but it is still slower than drawing from the body.  Now, you've added the extra step of racking the slide to chamber a round before you can present and aim the gun at the threat.  If you are being charged by a weapon-wielding assailant from 20-25 feet away, there is no way you will be able to accomplish that before you have a knife in your neck, or a tire iron embedded in your skull.  I think pretty much every credible, recognized authority would advise against such a method of carry.  Not trying to get into your business, just concerned.  For car carry, your idea about loaded and in the console is much better.

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I actually have a nice leather holster for my gx4 that is a pocket holster but unfortunately the way that holster is the gun will fight me to come out.  Sadly enough I just bought a DeSantis nemesis holster that was made for the sig p365 for about 10 bucks.  Even though I’ve got the Taurus gx4, I know those 2 weapons are similar in size and operation, it actually fits it really well.  The holster arrived yesterday and I can draw from my pocket much more quickly with it.  So usually my Taurus gx4 or my 380, whichever I pick up that day, is in my right front pocket, keys in my left pocket, wallet in my back right pocket and phone either in my shirt pocket or my left rear pocket depending how I’m feeling.  

 

I think for being in my car, which is a little Ford Focus, I’m going to dedicate the center console more to the weapon also, I still have the glove box and door pockets for other stuff.  So when I was testing, it seems to work well if I put the gun holstered pointing straight down into the console with the handle pointing towards the passenger seat.  With how the console is constructed it fits well that way, and if I point the handle of the weapon that way it’s a fairly natural motion to pop the console open and twist my wrist just enough to grab the handle, and is unholstered if needed.  Hopefully I don’t ever need it.  But especially when my wife is in the car with me, I’m going to protect her to the best of my ability.

 

Edit:  last poster posted while I was typing.  But that situation did make me think about if I’d needed it, trying to twist my body, get the gun out of the holster(especially the one I had that day that wants to fight me.  Sad about that holster as well I think it was a good 30-40 bucks when I got it), then as you said trying to chamber.  The gx4 has no safety on it that I know of, would you be concerned carrying with a round in the chamber in that situation?  

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On 7/2/2022 at 8:57 AM, illinois_buckeye said:

I actually have a nice leather holster for my gx4 that is a pocket holster but unfortunately the way that holster is the gun will fight me to come out.  Sadly enough I just bought a DeSantis nemesis holster that was made for the sig p365 for about 10 bucks.  Even though I’ve got the Taurus gx4, I know those 2 weapons are similar in size and operation, it actually fits it really well.  The holster arrived yesterday and I can draw from my pocket much more quickly with it.  So usually my Taurus gx4 or my 380, whichever I pick up that day, is in my right front pocket, keys in my left pocket, wallet in my back right pocket and phone either in my shirt pocket or my left rear pocket depending how I’m feeling.  

 

I think for being in my car, which is a little Ford Focus, I’m going to dedicate the center console more to the weapon also, I still have the glove box and door pockets for other stuff.  So when I was testing, it seems to work well if I put the gun holstered pointing straight down into the console with the handle pointing towards the passenger seat.  With how the console is constructed it fits well that way, and if I point the handle of the weapon that way it’s a fairly natural motion to pop the console open and twist my wrist just enough to grab the handle, and is unholstered if needed.  Hopefully I don’t ever need it.  But especially when my wife is in the car with me, I’m going to protect her to the best of my ability.

 

Edit:  last poster posted while I was typing.  But that situation did make me think about if I’d needed it, trying to twist my body, get the gun out of the holster(especially the one I had that day that wants to fight me.  Sad about that holster as well I think it was a good 30-40 bucks when I got it), then as you said trying to chamber.  The gx4 has no safety on it that I know of, would you be concerned carrying with a round in the chamber in that situation?  

Not at all.  As a matter of fact, I occasionally carry (on hot days) a Sig P365 in my front pocket, in an Alabama Pocket Holster.  I personally don't care for safeties on carry guns.  If I'm carrying a 9mm polymer pistol, it will never have a manual safety on it.  When I carry a .45acp, it's a 1911, so I do have to have the safety engaged as I carry it "cocked and locked."  As long as your holster is high quality and protects the trigger, you shouldn't need to worry about a safety on a striker fired, double action pistol.

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You can see how the gx4 fits the p365 holster.  It covers the trigger.  I can see just a bit of space behind the trigger it doesn’t cover, but since I pocket carry I dedicate that pocket to that purpose and don’t put anything else in the pocket with it.  It stays loaded with hornady critical duty, which was what the range had when I bought the ammo  and the gun seems to run it.

BAF8185A-26F9-4779-9357-6E139BCDC5E1.jpeg

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On 7/2/2022 at 9:17 AM, illinois_buckeye said:

You can see how the gx4 fits the p365 holster.  It covers the trigger.  I can see just a bit of space behind the trigger it doesn’t cover, but since I pocket carry I dedicate that pocket to that purpose and don’t put anything else in the pocket with it.  It stays loaded with hornady critical duty, which was what the range had when I bought the ammo  and the gun seems to run it.

BAF8185A-26F9-4779-9357-6E139BCDC5E1.jpeg

Looks fine to me.  Nothing to snag the trigger on when drawing from an otherwise empty pocket.  :)

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On 7/2/2022 at 9:40 AM, 2A4Cook said:

Looks fine to me.  Nothing to snag the trigger on when drawing from an otherwise empty pocket.  :)


Good deal.  I’ve had it less than 24 hours but I find if I’m carrying with it, grab the gun handle and just a little push on the holster with my middle fingers and it comes right out.  I’m sure it will loosen up as well.

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We have a legal system of negative rights, not affirmative rights. A speeding ticket can’t be enforced where there is no posted speed limit. It’s almost as if the anti-2Aers think this is Canada or something.

They’ll get their desired delay, but the law won’t hold up to scrutiny. In the meantime, anyone negatively affected by it is having their civil rights demonstrably denied in violation of US law. That can get expensive and make a lot of victims very wealthy.

 

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New York is playing a dangerous game with their tax payers’ money.

Part of the zeal with which this opinion was written was whipped up by how the lower courts essentially gutted Heller by instituting their ridiculous two-step scrutiny. Thomas was leaving no room for the lower courts and state justice systems to play games this time. The 2nd amendment very clearly describes the right that is protected, and Bruen very clearly describes how that right is to be treated within the justice system. Citizens now have a very clear path to show harm when one of these anti-2A maliciously violates their civil rights.

It will take an administration change before any of it is enforced, but the framework has been laid for it to get VERY expensive for these states that insist on playing stupid games.

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On 7/2/2022 at 9:47 AM, GTX63 said:

New York is playing a dangerous game with their tax payers’ money.

Part of the zeal with which this opinion was written was whipped up by how the lower courts essentially gutted Heller by instituting their ridiculous two-step scrutiny. Thomas was leaving no room for the lower courts and state justice systems to play games this time. The 2nd amendment very clearly describes the right that is protected, and Bruen very clearly describes how that right is to be treated within the justice system. Citizens now have a very clear path to show harm when one of these anti-2A maliciously violates their civil rights.

It will take an administration change before any of it is enforced, but the framework has been laid for it to get VERY expensive for these states that insist on playing stupid games.


Well at least maybe some people can get rich by suing the state.  I guess for my part, I was raised around guns but I never felt a great need to even own one when I got married.  To tell the truth of it, the rioting in 2020 and democrats started calling for defunding the police is what made me want to get into guns as an adult.  I told my wife I wanted one because of the police wouldn’t be there to protect us that we needed to protect ourselves.  I know of at least one friend of mine who got his foid due to the same reason.  

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On 7/2/2022 at 8:57 AM, illinois_buckeye said:

Edit:  last poster posted while I was typing.  But that situation did make me think about if I’d needed it, trying to twist my body, get the gun out of the holster(especially the one I had that day that wants to fight me.  Sad about that holster as well I think it was a good 30-40 bucks when I got it), then as you said trying to chamber.  The gx4 has no safety on it that I know of, would you be concerned carrying with a round in the chamber in that situation?  

Edited July 2, 2022 at 09:02 AM by illinois_buckeye

 

On 7/2/2022 at 9:40 AM, 2A4Cook said:

Looks fine to me.  Nothing to snag the trigger on when drawing from an otherwise empty pocket.

 

I have a few of the Nemisis type holsters in different sizes... and a couple of similar pocket holsters in leather. I rarely use them because of lack of access to my pockets. I do keep one in my center console for temporary storage to protect the pistol, or move it to locked storage.

 

What I do use everyday is a Privateer Leather "Corsair" outside the waistband holster. For IWB carry I use their "Cutthroat"... basically the same ride height and cant. My Sig P238 or Browning High Power disappear under a loose untucked shirt or the Columbia vest I wear everyday. A suit coat or jacket would provide the same concealment coverage. Holster pic attached.

 

For center console carry... I might prefer a rig that can attach to the inside of my console so it is in exactly the right place at all times.

 

As to the safety of your GX4... I agree with 2A4Cook. You should be good to go. My favorite carry pistols are single action. There have been times, at the end of the day, when I discover the safety on the Sig is switched to off. It has remained safe because the trigger is fully covered and my finger does not go to the trigger unless I am ready to fire.

 

The Privateer Leather Corsair runs around $110, plus whatever fancy leather trim you might want to add. Wait time for these custom "made for you" holsters is 11-12 weeks. My last one did not take as long as expected. Other craftsmen will have similar pricing and wait times.

 

For me, OWB is far more comfortable than IWB, and you don't need to get bigger pants. The combined cost of the three pictured is less than the drawer full of holsters (hybrid types, Kydex models and pocket holsters) I have found to be unsuitable for me.

 

Never cheap out on your holster.

... or your gun belt.

 

1544377671_PrivateerHolsters.jpg.076835cf7501109dbffe9d19c3e2fa8e.jpg

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Thanks for all the advice.  I don’t pretend to know everything.  Still learning a bit from others who have more experience in this area.  Since I was already pocket caring and getting used to that I think this DeSantis holster will do the job.  It didn’t cost as much as others but it seems like it will be functional.  It is about the same size as the leather holster I was using but I can draw a lot easier with it.

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On 7/2/2022 at 8:05 AM, illinois_buckeye said:

 But it made me think more about keeping it in the center console with a round in the chamber, as I typically pocket carry with an empty chamber.  

'I'll never understand why someone would carry a weapon, CC or open carry without being loaded, One in the chamber,  your not ready, you could be setting your self up for failure and could cost you your life. (same for in your console) 

I would never use a holster made from fabric, Only firm leather or carbon fiber some type of hard cover over the trigger.

For me my other requirement is no manual safety that's another fail point...

 

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On 7/2/2022 at 11:26 AM, soundguy said:

For me, OWB is far more comfortable than IWB, and you don't need to get bigger pants. The combined cost of the three pictured is less than the drawer full of holsters (hybrid types, Kydex models and pocket holsters) I have found to be unsuitable for me.

Do you find leather more comfortable than kydex?  I carry iwb, and my kydex holster becomes very uncomfortable after a few hours. 

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On 7/2/2022 at 12:30 PM, roundkot said:

Do you find leather more comfortable than kydex?  I carry iwb, and my kydex holster becomes very uncomfortable after a few hours. 

 

Yes.

I find leather more comfortable than kydex or the hybrid leather/kydex types.

I find OWB to be far more comfortable than IWB. I gave up IWB a couple years ago.

 

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Kydex just seems to me like it would be too hard and inflexible to me which is why I prefer softer material.  When pocket carrying I find that comfortable but the trigger is covered.  Am starting to consider something with a safety that way I could carry in chamber but still feel as though there’s a bit of protection and not add to the draw time since I could train to paw at the safety as I’m drawing.

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On 7/2/2022 at 1:40 PM, illinois_buckeye said:

Kydex just seems to me like it would be too hard and inflexible to me which is why I prefer softer material.  When pocket carrying I find that comfortable but the trigger is covered.  Am starting to consider something with a safety that way I could carry in chamber but still feel as though there’s a bit of protection and not add to the draw time since I could train to paw at the safety as I’m drawing.

 

A DA or DA/SA (decocker or safety) pistol is designed to carry with a round in the chamber. The longer/heavier first shot trigger pull is your safety, and your GX4 has that toggled trigger safety thingy. I would not hesitate to carry a GX4 with a round chambered... as long as the trigger is appropriately covered and I maintain safe handling practices. Do not change what you are doing because someone on the Internet suggests you should!

 

With my SA pistols, the thumb safety is one extra step to accomplish, but I greatly prefer a shorter lighter trigger pull. And, like many DA/striker users, I prefer the trigger pull to be the same every time. Adding a manual thumb safety to a DA striker fired pistol could be an additional measure of safety, while adding an extra thing to do in a stressful situation.

 

My first carry pistol was a Kel-Tec P11. It was incredibly safe with a very, very long 10lb trigger pull. It was painful to fire more than 25 rounds with and made me flinch after the first round went off. I imagine my views could have been different if my first "safe for carry" pistol had a 6lb trigger like the GX4. If you shoot it well and enjoy shooting it...

 

 

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On 7/2/2022 at 3:38 PM, ragsbo said:

This was to be expected. It is clear they are in contempt of the court. To bad the supreme court will not send the US marshals to arrest them for it!


The Supreme Court won’t do that because THEY HAVE NO POWER to do so!

 

SCOTUS has no power to enforce their rulings, they must rely on the Legislative and Executive branches to do that.

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I was just talking about that with dad today.  It seems to me that the court should really be the one with control over the doj.  Just an opinion, or at least an arm of it like the marshals to enforce the rulings similar to how a judge would have the sheriff take control on things.

 

 As far as the gx4, all’s well that ends well.  After talking to my dad earlier and going to the range for practice, I tried drawing with a round in the chamber.  A little fear but I felt funny about it.  They had a nice Springfield hellcat pro for a good price and gave me a fair deal on a couple of other guns.. So as soon as my waiting period is up I’ll bring that home.  It did have the manual safety so I can carry with a round in and flick with my thumb as I draw to pull the safety.  Hope things never come to that but I do like the Springfield and it seems to be a nice gun.  

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On 7/2/2022 at 3:44 PM, Tip said:


The Supreme Court won’t do that because THEY HAVE NO POWER to do so!

 

SCOTUS has no power to enforce their rulings, they must rely on the Legislative and Executive branches to do that.

IF I am recalling... there is an "emergency" provision designed just for purposes such as this.

I could be wrong of course.

image.gif

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All this "I don't understand why they would want to carry like that" or "carrying like that isn't beneficial" or "open carry is stupid" sounds just like the anti-guners "why do you need a gun" or "you dont need" excuses.  It's a right, critiquing every little detail of how anyone else exercizes it, to me is belittling the right.  Exercise the right how you feel comfortable doing it and let others exercise it like they feel comfortable doing and move on.

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On 7/2/2022 at 12:03 PM, ScopeEye said:

'I'll never understand why someone would carry a weapon, CC or open carry without being loaded, One in the chamber,  your not ready, you could be setting your self up for failure and could cost you your life. (same for in your console) 

I would never use a holster made from fabric, Only firm leather or carbon fiber some type of hard cover over the trigger.

For me my other requirement is no manual safety that's another fail point...

 

Heard one of the pro 2a comedians just a few days ago on this right here.

 

People who think they can/will be able to lad one into the chamber are the same people that say they can seatbelt up just before a crash!

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On 7/2/2022 at 8:40 PM, Bubbacs said:

Heard one of the pro 2a comedians just a few days ago on this right here.

 

People who think they can/will be able to lad one into the chamber are the same people that say they can seatbelt up just before a crash!

 

I guess that is why they are a comedian, I'm betting very few actually do seatbelt after a crash, most obvioulsy do it before the crash, the duration of time before the crash is bound to vary significantly from shortly before to as soon as they got in the car.  The fact remains not every self defense scenerio requires an instant draw followed by an instant discharge as fast as you can, just like every vehicular crash doesn't require you seatbelt before you put it in drive.  In fact I'm betting that in a majority of cases brandishing the firearm is enough to likely difuse the situation without a discharge.  It would be interesting to see real world stats on how many times CC holders and officers draw their weapon in self defense with that alone defusing the situtaion without the need to actually discharge a round.  We already know that only about 27% of all police will ever fire their firearm in the line of duty during their entire career, just a guess, probably close to 100% of them drew their weapons at some point and that was enough.

 

Of course there are times where seconds matter and a round in the chamber will make the difference, but that doesn't mean that someone the chooses to not carry a round in the chamber is stupid, just like someone that chooses a 38 compact with 10 rounds to carry over a full sized 45 with 15 isn't stupid, or someone who chooses to carry a semi-auto isn't stupid vs the guy that carries a wheel gun.

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