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Ghost Gun Ban Signed Into Law Today, Illinois


Louie25

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On 5/24/2022 at 10:54 PM, DoYouFeelLucky said:

I heard of them doing this in Rockford from a neighbor who was deep into one of the local motorcycle brotherhoods, as well as seeing it for myself in Brazil and Argentina.  I believe they use something like the S&W 6906 that was an all metal pistol and they sandcast the frames, I believe using the lost wax technique.  If you have cheap labor and lots of time I guess it works. 

 

There are videos to be found online of gangs in the Philippines, in grass shacks in the woods welding together scrap steel pieces they cut with hacksaws into pistols and then finishing them all by hand with files, sand paper and hand buffing, resulting in pistols that look factory made.  They even do the barrel rifling by hand, a complete package.  One video I saw said the selling price difference between a shody built one and one that really can't be identified as hand made was enough that they strive to make them as perfect as possible.

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On 5/31/2022 at 1:53 AM, Flynn said:

 

HF stopped carring the combo machines (as well as many other catalog only machine offerings years ago) kinda annoyed me as I kept putting off buying oneexpecting them to keep selling them, now you have to order from a place like Grizzly if you seek a low cost import 3 in 1 or many of the other machine shop tolls they used to offer.  It's really to the point if you want tools like this to have cash on hand and keep your eyes open for a vintage Bridgeport and whatever lathe on places like Craigslist or Facebook marketplace, there are deals to be found as people don't want to be inconvienced with setting up a phase converter to run them in residential areas.

Sold an old Bridgeport a few years back for $1500.  It was an old unit, completely manual, 3 phase.  I wasn't aware HF no longer sells anything like it.  That is a shame as the unit worked really well for the price point. 

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On 5/31/2022 at 3:54 PM, Jeffrey said:

Sold an old Bridgeport a few years back for $1500.  It was an old unit, completely manual, 3 phase.  I wasn't aware HF no longer sells anything like it.  That is a shame as the unit worked really well for the price point. 

 

Yeah, my brother bought one of the 3 in one combos at HF, $ for $ the import mill/lathe combos were a great deal when you could source them at HF and you spent some time dialing it in, now that you have to order them from places like Grizzly who charges  $200+ dollars shipping, and their selling price is already steep compared to what HF was pricing the same thing with a different paint job, they are no longer the deal they used to be, especially with the overall spike in prices on everything.

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On 5/31/2022 at 3:54 PM, Jeffrey said:

Sold an old Bridgeport a few years back for $1500.  It was an old unit, completely manual, 3 phase.  I wasn't aware HF no longer sells anything like it.  That is a shame as the unit worked really well for the price point. 

That's about scrap steel price, I had several at the factory practically gave them away since it takes professionals to move them.  

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On 6/6/2022 at 9:23 AM, SiliconSorcerer said:

That's about scrap steel price, I had several at the factory practically gave them away since it takes professionals to move them.  

 

Although one runs the risk of knocking it out of alignment, or possibly some damage, I have seen several moved in hillbilly fashion that made it to their destination AOK.  Had a friend move one with nothing but a few nylon tow straps/chains, an engine cherry picker and flat bed trailer.  You only need to lift it up straight about 18" to back a generic flatbed trailer under it...  To move around once unloaded a pallet jack is economical enough to rent, even if a struggle to roll on the less than ideal surfaces...

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On 6/6/2022 at 2:51 PM, Flynn said:

 

Although one runs the risk of knocking it out of alignment, or possibly some damage, I have seen several moved in hillbilly fashion that made it to their destination AOK.  Had a friend move one with nothing but a few nylon tow straps/chains, an engine cherry picker and flat bed trailer.  You only need to lift it up straight about 18" to back a generic flatbed trailer under it...  To move around once unloaded a pallet jack is economical enough to rent, even if a struggle to roll on the less than ideal surfaces...

They must make small Bridgeports too, I don't think you can pick up 2 tons with a engine hoist and load it on a flatbed semi. 

But hillbilly have at it. 

 

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On 6/6/2022 at 5:36 PM, SiliconSorcerer said:

They must make small Bridgeports too, I don't think you can pick up 2 tons with a engine hoist and load it on a flatbed semi. 

But hillbilly have at it. 

 

 

Nope full sized machine, flat bed trailer, as in landscape type trailer with a much lower deck, not a semi, that is a lot more lift...  The one my friend moved was a full sized Bridgeport (and large lathe he got as a combo deal) and I watched him do it, 2 tons and all...  Your normal cheap HF engine hoist will do 2 tons (probably more, that is just the rating) most other ones are rated 3+ tons, it's just a simple vertical lift then you back the trailer under it, and drop.  Moving them this way is probably more common than you think.

 

Hit up Youtube there are several videos of people moving them with engine hoist, even a guy that just put it on a pallet jack and used a tilt trailer and winch to drag it up on the trailer...

 

 

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Kicking myself to this day. Had a chance to buy one in 2010 from the place that closed two doors down where the Niles gun range was supposed to be. Was friends with the tool room guy who worked there since the 1960's. It was all manual and for some reason, mostly unused. Went at auction for $2500. It was basically new condition according to my dad. My dad the machinist by trade said we could take it apart and put it in his basement. 

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Chicago,+IL+60641/@42.0185192,-87.7809034,218m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x880fcc50147b0799:0xb513ebd1e596f81f!8m2!3d41.9472058!4d-87.7468071?hl=en

 

Can still see the red rocktred floor(exposed to the elements for 10+ years) that was 50' away from where the machine sat in the still standing part of the building.

 

Darn

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On 6/6/2022 at 6:48 PM, Flynn said:

 

Nope full sized machine, flat bed trailer, as in landscape type trailer with a much lower deck, not a semi, that is a lot more lift...  The one my friend moved was a full sized Bridgeport (and large lathe he got as a combo deal) and I watched him do it, 2 tons and all...  Your normal cheap HF engine hoist will do 2 tons (probably more, that is just the rating) most other ones are rated 3+ tons, it's just a simple vertical lift then you back the trailer under it, and drop.  Moving them this way is probably more common than you think.

 

Hit up Youtube there are several videos of people moving them with engine hoist, even a guy that just put it on a pallet jack and used a tilt trailer and winch to drag it up on the trailer...

 

 

That be one tiny a... bridgeport. 

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On 6/7/2022 at 8:11 AM, richp said:

Now that they have solved the ghost gun (as in guns made by individuals, not an organized manufacturer) problem, can we expect them to come after ghost ammunition (ammo not directly tied to a FOID card transaction)?

 

Reloaders stay alert!!!

 

 

Yes we can. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/cook-co-sheriff-demands-change-to-ammo-sales-regulations/ar-AAY96y8?bk=1&bk=1&ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=dce582b49bd847ae90f03e317839c5ae

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On 6/7/2022 at 7:24 AM, SiliconSorcerer said:

 

That be one tiny a... bridgeport. 

 

The video (that I posted just as an example) shows the smaller Series 1 being moved, I just posted it to show the technique, it works the same with the larger Series 2 machines like my friend had purchased as well.

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On 6/10/2022 at 9:48 PM, Louie25 said:

Are AR builds affected by this?

 

Language in the bill basically says that frame, receiver, parts kit needs a serial number.

How does that work if I want an AR with a already serialized lower? Will my remaining parts need to be serialized?



ISP released this public statement

https://isp.illinois.gov/StaticFiles/docs/FSB/ghost guns notice (052322) (002).pdf

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On 6/10/2022 at 10:06 PM, Molly B. said:

** Unlawful Conduct – it is unlawful for any person to knowingly: a. Sell, offer to sell, or transfer un-serialized unfinished frames, receivers, or firearms, including those produced using a three-dimensional printer, unless the party purchasing or receiving the such firearm is a federal firearms importer, federal firearms manufacturer, or federal firearms dealer.

b. Possess, transport, or receive an un-serialized unfinished frame, receivers, or firearms beginning November 14, 2022, unless: i. the party possessing or receiving the unfinished frame, receiver, or firearm is a federal firearms importer or federal firearms manufacturer; or ii. the unfinished frame or receiver is possessed or transported by a person for transfer to a federal firearms importer or federal firearms manufacturer. **

 

Based on that language, AR receivers are unserialized. I'm trying to also interpret the "unfinished" part. Is a complete upper considered unfinished unless it's attached to the complete AR? Does the unfinished part only apply to the frame or is it including the receivers. 

 

In my layman understanding, I have a complete AR and I'm good to go. But temporary pull the receiver off and maybe swap it with another one, then I'm possessing a unserialized receiver?

 

It's not clear to me.

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On 6/11/2022 at 9:51 AM, Tim85 said:

It states the serial number needs to be on a steel plaque….. how’s that going to work on the polymer 80 lowers? 

 

It simply can't be done up to ATF serilization requirements on a P80 or any other already built poly frame, for it to comply with ATF standards it has to be serialized on a steel plate that is embeded into the poly receiver in a way that removal destorys the receiver, aka you can simply melt/sonic weld in a metal serial number plate into the plastic like Plum Crazy did on their early poly ARs, you have to basically embed a metal skelton and the serial has to be part of the embeded metal skelton.

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On 6/10/2022 at 10:35 PM, Louie25 said:

** Unlawful Conduct – it is unlawful for any person to knowingly: a. Sell, offer to sell, or transfer un-serialized unfinished frames, receivers, or firearms, including those produced using a three-dimensional printer, unless the party purchasing or receiving the such firearm is a federal firearms importer, federal firearms manufacturer, or federal firearms dealer.

b. Possess, transport, or receive an un-serialized unfinished frame, receivers, or firearms beginning November 14, 2022, unless: i. the party possessing or receiving the unfinished frame, receiver, or firearm is a federal firearms importer or federal firearms manufacturer; or ii. the unfinished frame or receiver is possessed or transported by a person for transfer to a federal firearms importer or federal firearms manufacturer. **

 

Based on that language, AR receivers are unserialized. I'm trying to also interpret the "unfinished" part. Is a complete upper considered unfinished unless it's attached to the complete AR? Does the unfinished part only apply to the frame or is it including the receivers. 

 

In my layman understanding, I have a complete AR and I'm good to go. But temporary pull the receiver off and maybe swap it with another one, then I'm possessing a unserialized receiver?

 

It's not clear to me.

I'm sorry, I got my wires crossed with terminology. I was incorrectly thinking that something like an AR upper was classified as a receiver. Hence me using frame and receiver incorrectly. Frame meaning the component holding the firing mechanism for pistols, receiver holding the firing mechanism for a rifle (based on a document from the ATF). Excuse my ignorance.

 

So as far as ARs go, building ARs are still OK with an existing serialized lower receiver. Still issues with polymer 80s by the sound of what everyone else is bringing up and the difficulty of serializing those after the fact. 

 

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On 6/13/2022 at 3:22 PM, dcar_roll said:

Still trying to make sense of this as to how it works if you milled out the receiver yourself for your AR build. Do you need to get it serialized to be legal ?

The simple answer to that is yes. 

I suspect Illinois is going to significantly increase the number of potential criminals (if they could find them) in the state. 

I'm not sure how many FFL's are going to line up to do this as well, can they force them? I think not existing and then maybe lawsuits.  IDK not a ffl since Jimmy screwed us. 

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On 6/14/2022 at 5:02 PM, Molly B. said:



Oh grasshopper, you have been around long enough now to know those things take time . . .

In this state, yes. In other states, as soon as the law is signed there’s usually lawsuits. Case and point. WA’s mag sale ban.....

 

 

Regarding the goofy “ghost gun” law here, plenty to use to dismantle it based off of a ruling in Nevada in which the courts there struck down their law

https://www.scribd.com/document/546715831/AB286-District-Court-rules-in-favor-of-Polymer80

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