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Will the "Red wave" sweep over IL in November, and will it be enough to kill the FOID card?


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On 4/26/2022 at 11:10 AM, 2A4Cook said:

My middle class suburban town has NOTHING in common with that area and, in fact, we don't want to pay taxes to the state to be used in Chicago areas that pay very little by comparison. 

 

If you live in one of the five collar counties, you are probably getting the short shrift, but it isn't going to Chicago/Cook. Your state tax dollars, and some of those dollars from Chicago/Cook, are likely going downstate...

 

If you are outside of the five collar counties, you likely benefit from state taxes paid in Cook and the five collar counties.

 

Pantagraph article - August 21, 2021

Quote

Rather than receiving the lion’s share of state tax revenue, Cook County and the five collar counties contribute more to the state than the state spends in those counties in return, based on data from the bipartisan Commission on Forecasting and Government Accountability. In 2016, Cook County generated $12.43 billion; suburban counties, $8.5 billion; and downstate, $8.2 billion. In return, the state spent in Cook County, $12.18 billion; suburban counties, $5.1 billion; and downstate, $13.9 billion. 

 

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On 4/28/2022 at 11:06 AM, soundguy said:

 

If you live in one of the five collar counties, you are probably getting the short shrift, but it isn't going to Chicago/Cook. Your state tax dollars, and some of those dollars from Chicago/Cook, are likely going downstate...

 

If you are outside of the five collar counties, you likely benefit from state taxes paid in Cook and the five collar counties.

 

Pantagraph article - August 21, 2021

 

You just shattered the worldview of so many that want to kick Chicago out of IL. 

 

 

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Regrettably for those who advocate separating from the northeast corner of the state in some way, Cook and the collar counties are the economic engine of Illinois.

 

https://www.farmweeknow.com/policy/state/state-tax-dollars-benefit-downstate-region-more-than-others/article_9207435a-ef0f-11eb-8280-ab69354d438c.html

 

The prospect of a separate state of Southern Illinois would entail considerable fiscal distress, without a clear path forward to solvent operational status.

 

 

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On 4/27/2022 at 9:23 PM, FLMOPE said:

No.

 

It isn't who votes.

 

It is who counts the votes.

 

Someone earlier said best. The courts will kill the FOID long before a Republican majority does.

 

Don't hold your breath for either.

 

Just like CCW. The emeriti of the IRP were all opposed to CCW even before '95-96 when they might have been able to slip it by.  In the years between Heller and the filing of Moore  I repeatedly stated that the only way we'd see CCW here was through the courts. 

 

Sadly, the same is probable for the FOID, especially when the state has the money and corruption influence to stall out completely legitimate exemplar cases like Horsley until the plaintiff loses standing.

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On 4/28/2022 at 4:41 PM, Tango7 said:

Rather than making the collar the 51st state, make Chicago a District like Columbia. Gives them the same number of federal reps, no senators, but it also detaches them from Illinois politics. 

It would also detach Illinois from all that Chicago revenue putting the new state further into financial ruin. 

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Since this is apparently now about Illinois and Chicago separating... Diamonds that are produced at the expense of ruining lives are considered blood diamonds and people avoid them to not fund criminals and death.  Why would citizens want to be funding the suffering and oppression that Chicago government offers?

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On 4/28/2022 at 9:06 AM, soundguy said:

 

If you live in one of the five collar counties, you are probably getting the short shrift, but it isn't going to Chicago/Cook. Your state tax dollars, and some of those dollars from Chicago/Cook, are likely going downstate...

 

If you are outside of the five collar counties, you likely benefit from state taxes paid in Cook and the five collar counties.

 

Pantagraph article - August 21, 2021

 

 

All those spending figures are hyperinflated.    The huge amount of money funneled to cronies does not benefit downstate or anyone except the cronies.

 

The state gets the credit for spending that money though that article.     You give the state credit for "spending that money"

 

You cannot assume those figures represent reality, or make a negative judgment against the red part of the state.   This is Illannoy, remember.  

 

 

Edited by BobPistol
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On 4/29/2022 at 12:03 PM, BobPistol said:

 

All those spending figures are hyperinflated.    The huge amount of money funneled to cronies does not benefit downstate or anyone except the cronies.

 

The state gets the credit for spending that money though that article.     You give the state credit for "spending that money"

 

You cannot assume those figures represent reality, or make a negative judgment against the red part of the state.   This is Illannoy, remember.  

 

 

Source:  "Trust me"

On 4/29/2022 at 11:21 AM, stigz said:

Since this is apparently now about Illinois and Chicago separating... Diamonds that are produced at the expense of ruining lives are considered blood diamonds and people avoid them to not fund criminals and death.  Why would citizens want to be funding the suffering and oppression that Chicago government offers?

That's the whole point though.  Downstate IL isn't funding Chicago in any way.  Money moves FROM Chicago downstate, not the other way around.

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On 4/29/2022 at 1:22 PM, Jeffrey said:

Money moves from Chicago to Chicago.  Removing all the corruption and graft of Chicago might actually save money from those downstate.  The info Chicago shares as it relates to spending I compare to taking China's word for it.  

Found another "Source: trust me."

 

If you think the article is incorrect, prove it.

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On 4/29/2022 at 5:15 PM, mauserme said:

Those who think the argument is about where the money goes after being taken have missed the point.  Among the many problems Chicago causes the state, they are the source of Illinois' gun rights problems. 

 

Let them keep their own taxes, and let their influence end at their borders.

Okay, but then downstate would have to raise their taxes to pay for the budget shortfall due to the loss of revenue from Chicago and the suburbs.  I guess downstate could always cut farm subsidies to offset the revenue loss, but I doubt that would be a popular move.

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On 4/29/2022 at 5:27 PM, ElMono said:

Okay, but then downstate would have to raise their taxes to pay for the budget shortfall due to the loss of revenue from Chicago and the suburbs.  I guess downstate could always cut farm subsidies to offset the revenue loss, but I doubt that would be a popular move.

 

Or have less services, which is probably OK by them.

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On 4/29/2022 at 12:30 PM, ElMono said:

Source:  "Trust me"

That's the whole point though.  Downstate IL isn't funding Chicago in any way.  Money moves FROM Chicago downstate, not the other way around.

Oppression does too! Remove the oppression and see how downstate does….

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On 4/29/2022 at 10:30 AM, ElMono said:

Source:  "Trust me"

 

 

I see, so you think that $0.00 of IL taxes have been funneled to cronies.

 

Can you please check your Interdimensional settings on your Slider device?  You're in the wrong dimension.    In this dimension, Illinois is run by corruptocrats who funnel huge amounts of money to cronies. 

 

 

Quote

That's the whole point though.  Downstate IL isn't funding Chicago in any way.  Money moves FROM Chicago downstate, not the other way around.

 

No, the whole point is that it doesn't matter if it is Chicago or downstate - the spending figures are wrong due to the huge amount of cronyocracy in IL.    Accounting for the cronyocracy, the benefits don't go to either. 

 

In other words BOTH Chicago and downstate are screwed over by the cronyocracy. 

 

 

Edited by BobPistol
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On 4/30/2022 at 12:54 AM, BobPistol said:

 

I see, so you think that $0.00 of IL taxes have been funneled to cronies.

 

Can you please check your Interdimensional settings on your Slider device?  You're in the wrong dimension.    In this dimension, Illinois is run by corruptocrats who funnel huge amounts of money to cronies. 

 

 

 

No, the whole point is that it doesn't matter if it is Chicago or downstate - the spending figures are wrong due to the huge amount of cronyocracy in IL.    Accounting for the cronyocracy, the benefits don't go to either. 

 

In other words BOTH Chicago and downstate are screwed over by the cronyocracy. 

 

 

That's a lot of words to say that you don't have a single source to counter the report. 

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On 4/30/2022 at 10:50 AM, ElMono said:

That's a lot of words to say that you don't have a single source to counter the report. 

So my last reply was snark and really wasn't helpful.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

 

Read up on that and you'll understand why your brain has to reject the information in the report.

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On 4/30/2022 at 11:33 AM, ElMono said:

So my last reply was snark and really wasn't helpful.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

 

Read up on that and you'll understand why your brain has to reject the information in the report.

 

It's interesting that those in favor of separating Chicago and or Cook County from the rest of the state speak only of Chicago/Cook, while those arguing against separation speak in terms of the five collar counties' economics which, of course, excludes Chicago and Cook County.  Sort of a straw man in a way.

 

Just an observation.

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On 4/30/2022 at 11:53 AM, mauserme said:

 

It's interesting that those in favor of separating Chicago and or Cook County from the rest of the state speak only of Chicago/Cook, while those arguing against separation speak in terms of the five collar counties' economics which, of course, excludes Chicago and Cook County.  Sort of a straw man in a way.

 

Just an observation.

10 or 15 years ago, I wished for Crook County to be separated.  Now, the lefties have taken Kane, Will and pretty much DuPage.  It would be exchanging the oppression of Crook for the oppression of the collar counties.  Face it, we is forked.

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On 4/30/2022 at 11:53 AM, mauserme said:

 

It's interesting that those in favor of separating Chicago and or Cook County from the rest of the state speak only of Chicago/Cook, while those arguing against separation speak in terms of the five collar counties' economics which, of course, excludes Chicago and Cook County.  Sort of a straw man in a way.

 

Just an observation.

As stated above, it doesn't sound like downstate wants the collar counties anymore than they want Cook.

 

But why would you think that downstate would have more rights to the collar counties than Cook in a hypothetical split?  The economic success of the collar counties comes from their proximity to Chicago. Why would they want to give that up and throw their lot in with the less economically successful downstate area?  If they decided to break off with the downstate counties, they would continue to have to pay a large portion of their taxes to downstate. If they stayed with Chicago, they could have a much lower tax burden since Chicago funds itself 98% of the way. What would be in it for the collar counties to join up with the downstate counties in a split where they will have to carry the financial water for the new state?

 

 

Edited by ElMono
Typo
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